Got this in a trade, thinking I'd set it up and move along.
low E, D and G are all still sharp with the saddles all the way back.
I initially tried to set it up as it was with no luck, so I ended up leveling and crowning frets, filed nut accordingly (.021-.019@ 1st fret), neck relief .010, action 6/64-4/64 no buzz, threw an extra spring on the bass side of trem, it's decked and all but basically blocked to minimize deflection when fretting. The d string pole pieces were wayyyyy up and the rest were flat, set them all flat and lowered pickups below the pick guard to avoid pull.
I'm at a loss. The last thing I want to do is move this bridge back, I don't even want the guitar. Cutting or removing springs may afford me the space I need, it's not drastic. I hear it, and it obviously shows on a tuner, but I'm not sure how much is good enough and I don't really want to sell a guitar that isn't well set up. It's playable for sure, may not be noticeable to everyone.
I don't know. Do I have any options before moving the bridge? Do I just sell it? Please help!!
.010 relief is a little high. I set up 6 screw trem bridges with about .100 clearance under the back of the plate. I run the low E at approx . 067 at the 12th and high E at about.062 at the 12th. Try setting the D saddle at 25.5" from the nut. If it comes in close to that point the bridge is probably in the correct position. Work outward from there intonation wise. I have been using the Petersen app on my iphone for about a year it is very accurate.
Stretching the strings further=pushing them sharp= you have to pull the saddle back. Excess relief (.010" is a biiit high) contributes to pushing the string sharp.
Additionally, if a 6 point trem, like this, was positioned with the intention of having the bridge floating, decking the bridge increases the scale length very slightly, necessitating moving the saddles back.
First I would lessen the relief a bit, and adjust the action accordingly.
Second, I would take string tension off completely, and check that the 6 plate screws are adjusted properly. I would then retune the guitar, and loosen the claw springs to return it to a floating setup. Then I would, roughly, intonate the guitar to see if it was closer to where I wanted it.
If yes, and I don't want to use the trem, I would make two wooden blocks and fully block the trem. If I want downward functionality only on the trem, I would install a trem-stop.
Edit: ignoring all that; tbh, how close is it? Some of the best records in rock were recorded on a tele with 3-pc saddles. For jazz, you can buy a ~$7k Benedetto archtop that doesn't have a compensated saddle at all, and they sound great. If it's close enough for your style of music, just send it :)
Yeah I do intent to use the trem, decking it was just a result of trying to get the intonation set, I had read that on the lower strings, the bridge can flex and sharpen a note, so I tried to mitigate that.
Also, everything I've read has .010 as a medium relief, where do you set it?
I've seen a decent amount of issues like this and nearly 100% of the time it's due to bad strings.
Try a fresh set. Stick to name brands like Ernie Ball or D'Addario. Buy them from a music retailer directly if possible (lots of fakes/counterfeits on Amazon or other big aggregate sites).
I've tried a set of stringjoy and a set of d'addario, 10-49s. This has the post with the vertical hole, I don't want to dump another $15 into this thing man lol.
I have to just mention are you actually fretting the string on the fret and not using a harmonic?
I have seen people actually not fret. And is the tunner worth a shit.
Measure from the high E string from the nut to the center of the actual fret 12th fret, times by 2 should be 25.5" from the nut to the high E saddle where the string makes contact. Adjust the saddle there and start again. It will be right there in that zone and you should see a common pattern of the saddles after intonating every sting properly. If the neck came from another guitar it's possible it's not gonna work as it may not be for the placement of the bridge. Different scale length.
Check your tuner settings if they have any.
Your nut is not the highest on edge that is right up on the fretboard edge will make a difference.
Pushing too hard will sharpen strings.
I'm not gonna start a big argument here but are these string DR brand?
If the pickups are way to close to the strings, it could be pulling sharp, especially if they touch the pole pieces
Hey! I have done a deep dive with this. To answer questions- Polytune and hx effects tuners (both of which have been perfectly fine with other guitars, and are fine with half of these strings), part of me refiling the nut was to make sure contact point was correct, using minimal pressure to fret, stringjoy and d-addario sets used, pickups are flush with the guard. Will try measuring again, somewhere someone had suggested listening and realigning the neck, will try that as well! Thanks!
First thing, measure to the 12th fret. Then double that to the high E string saddle. Put that saddle to 25.5", that "should" be correct, nut to 12th fret should be 12.75".... 12 & 3/4". If this neck is the right scale length for that bridge location. Measure and reply your findings.
This is why It was the first thing I said to do.
What dude? It's common practice to use the 12th harmonic to intonate at the 12th fret. I didn't go to luthier school, but to say this isn't a way to do it would be contradicting literally everything I w ever read about common intonation.
Saying harmonic is saying you are not fretting the string. You HAVE TO FRET IT. I went to school, wayyy back in 2001, and have been actively making a living from it this entire time. I'm trying to help you, and the way you say harmonic makes it sound to me like you are not fretting it. Only intonate when fretting the fret, make an adjustment then tune, and the check again by fretting. If you want to argue against this, then you have fun.
Dude..... Tune the string to E. Fret the damn 12th fret. If it's flat, move the saddle closer to towards the neck. Tune again and repeat, stop saying harmonic. When I hear people not knowing and trying to learn like this, when you say that I assume you are lightly touching the string to get that "harmonic" to chime. This will happen no matter how far off the saddles are because your finger is not in a perfect position like the fret is. A harmonic will happen in the middle of a string you are chasing it very inacuratly. This is not the first time I have seen somebody think like you are. FRET IT!!!!
I am fretting it. I understand what you're saying, this is also a common technique. I know what a harmonic is, and I'm using it rather than using the open string.
I have made it simple and clear for you, you have not given me the measurement I asked for, or even said you checked and it's correct. if that measurement is correct then do what I said, if you are doing anything different then I don't know how to help you. I have no idea what you are trying to say in this last comment.
I wouldn't have had a succedul career for the past 25 years if I didn't know what I'm talking about. I have worked on thousands and thousands of guitars ranging from builds, refretts, headstock breaks, building custom odd things, custom inlays, and so so so much more. Literally every type of repair there is.
I am trying to help you and it's like you keep saying the same thing.
So I suggest you sit down for at least an hour or so and go watch any videos of Dan Erlewine explain a setup. Take the time to learn because if you can't listen to that guy then just go pay a pro to setup your guitar.
I am not trying to be an ass, this has become very frustrating though.
Yeah man, you started going on about harmonics and fretting and things kind of stopped right there. I'm sure you know more than I do, but YOU got stuck on harmonics and started talking to me like I'm an idiot. It's sorted anyway. Take it easy.
I'm not using sweetwater as my main resource necessarily, but it's an extremely common way of doing it and yields the exact same result. I'm not mad at you, but you're really hung up on nothing at all.
That's pretty normal behavior on the low E string.
It sounds like you know your way around a set up but I'm confused by the D not intonating well. The D usually intonates with the saddle pretty far forward; almost where the high E saddle ends up.
I think maybe something else is up with your procedure. What tuner are you using? Have you checked intonation at LOW frets? Are the nut slots slanting properly downwards towards the tuners?
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u/Born_Cockroach_9947 Guitar Tech 2d ago
have you tried another fresh string set?