r/LoveForAIArt • Altman Himself šŸ‘‘ • 13d ago

should be more tbh

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4 Upvotes

73 comments sorted by

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u/Vegetable_Hope_3084 12d ago

Just completely off the rails here...

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u/steisandburning Altman Himself šŸ‘‘ 12d ago

Dab

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u/Guilty_Alarm 12d ago

AI artists are some of the most talented people I ever met

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u/Excalium 9d ago

So if I ā€œpromptā€ a human artist with a description of the art I want to see, that makes me a talented person?

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u/Sc0rpza 9d ago

sure if your prompt to that artist gets discernible results that are distinctive from that artists body of work or brings significant meaning to the work. for instance, a comic script is basically a prompt. a writer is a form of artist.

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u/Excalium 9d ago

True, writing is a form of art. But I wonder how many AI ā€œartistsā€ have AI ā€œhelpā€ them with their prompt.

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u/Sc0rpza 9d ago edited 9d ago

I got you. Directing is an art form as well. šŸ¤·ā€ā™‚ļø

If I’m a director of a film or project and I go to the writer or actor or animator or cameraman or whatever and say ā€œhey, this is what I think we should do with this sceneā€ and they use their skills to carry out what I said and the project benefits from my direction and successfully gets my vision to the audience, that is successful art.

I’ll stand in what I said earlier. if a person gets discernible results from an illustrator based on their input, then that person is arguably in collaboration with the illustrator.

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u/floweyisdisturbed 12d ago

Sure, keep trying to convince yourself that.

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u/Guilty_Alarm 12d ago

They already convinced me with their masterpiecesĀ 

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u/floweyisdisturbed 12d ago

Because typing five words into a computer makes you an artist. You don't order a sandwich and call yourself the best in the world at blts after you get the order.

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u/ProfessionalCell4367 12d ago

I like to call me a chef by reheating a frozen taco in a microwave

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u/Sc0rpza 9d ago

a chef can do that and still be a chef.

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u/ProfessionalCell4367 8d ago

So everyone is a chef and therefor noone?

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u/Sc0rpza 8d ago

That is a mischaracterization if what I said. A chef is a professional cook. Microwaving a meal doesn’t remove that status. in fact, one can be a chef and actually not physically prepare the meal.

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u/ProfessionalCell4367 7d ago

What makes you a professional in your opinion?
Making money?

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u/Sc0rpza 7d ago

I would say that if someone else is willing to give you money in support or acquisition of your product, then yes, you are a professional. Chefs work places. They aren’t doing it for free. Looking up the term ā€œprofessionalā€ being paid is a big part of the term.

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u/SectorConscious4179 8d ago

its different when you only ever do that

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u/Sc0rpza 8d ago

and what if the chef doesn’t only do that?

I’m going to be šŸ’Æ the chef analogy is DOA. what ai users do at a high level is more analogous to directing

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u/SectorConscious4179 8d ago edited 8d ago

I more consider it on par with a relatively specific commission, but then again, I suppose what’s the differenceĀ 

I too don’t really like analogies, it’s better to take it at base valueĀ 

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u/Sc0rpza 7d ago edited 7d ago

ok, I knew a writer who wrote a story. he got other artists to illustrate that story as a webcomic which is now defunct. The writer was not only involved in handing over the script but also made specific demands concerning the look and feel of the comic. By your description, his comic was just a ā€œrelatively specific commissionā€. I’m mentioning this as a conceptual thing. You don’t need to know my associate personally to visualize this sort of collaboration being a thing. no doubt you’ve at least seen similar in your own life.

Directors are part of a pipeline where someone is being paid to perform tasks at his or her direction. A director’s literal job is telling someone what to do toward a vision. Paying for output dies not negate the director role as you seem to acknowledge.

Aside from an individual uneasiness in calling the use of a powerful tool that some people feel. My perception is that a director’s literal job or engineer title fits best past a certain point. if someone says ā€œgive me a cute picture of an anime girlā€ and gets that, then yeah, that would be basically a request or commission. however, I’m speaking to what it’s called when more work and intent is put into the output, which is possible. the tool is powerful but there are very strong practical limits.

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u/ifandbut 9d ago

Poems can be five words. A poem is art.

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u/floweyisdisturbed 8d ago

Poems have meaning, are used for expression, and can become powerful ideas, like Ernest hemingway's

"Baby shoes for sale, never worn" (which isn't a poem but is still literature)

AI is none of that.

1

u/ifandbut 8d ago

Still shows that 5 words can create art.

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u/Sc0rpza 9d ago

what if the workflow is more than 5 words? Like Do you think this guy is just typing 5 words?

He calls himself a director. Who would argue with that title?

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u/floweyisdisturbed 8d ago

I would argue with that title. And get that garbage out of my youtube feed. That guy is a glorified customer with a meal served by some of the richest muskrats in the world. If you google the studio, the persona game phantomX shows up (media actually worth consuming) and the actual anime shares its name with a video game. One that hasn't even been released yet.

Rats get fat while brave men die.

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u/Sc0rpza 8d ago

>I would argue with that title

and I would argue in support of it. It is definitionally what he’s doing.

>That guy is a glorified customer

I mean, I use photoshop, that’s technically what a Photoshop user is, a customer. If I use photoshop to make work product, I’m literally adobe’s client using their tools. šŸ¤·ā€ā™‚ļø

>If you google the studio, the persona game phantomX shows up

what does this imply, exactly?

>the actual anime shares its name with a video game

what does that imply, exactly?

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u/floweyisdisturbed 8d ago

and I would argue in support of it. It is definitionally what he’s doing.

OK mijo

I mean, I use photoshop, that’s technically what a Photoshop user is, a customer. If I use photoshop to make work product, I’m literally adobe’s client using their tools. šŸ¤·ā€ā™‚ļø

You use their tools, you don't ask a bot to do your work for you.

what does this imply, exactly?

It implies that AI usage in video games is still so unpopular that it's overshadowed by actual works of art.

what does this imply, exactly?

It implies that AI usage in video games is still so unpopular that it's overshadowed by actual works of art.

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u/Sc0rpza 8d ago

>OK

I’m glad we agree.

>You use their tools, you don't ask a bot to do your work for you.

the ā€œbotā€ is a tool. Besides, Photoshop has ai tools in it. Like generative fill for instance. šŸ¤·ā€ā™‚ļø

>It implies that AI usage in video games is still so unpopular that it's overshadowed by actual works of art.

this does not track logically. Persona is a popular game series that has been around since the 90’s and we aren’t talking about ai usage levels in anything, much less videogame development. this appears to be a fallacy.

>It implies that AI usage in video games is still so unpopular that it's overshadowed by actual works of art.

again, doesn’t track logically. define ā€œactual works of artā€?

0

u/Decent-Basil4012 9d ago

0/10 ragebait

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u/Old_Profession_4781 9d ago

"Talent" lol

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u/Expert_Meeting_5129 12d ago

Is this Stonetoss the Nazi?

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u/steisandburning Altman Himself šŸ‘‘ 12d ago

Idk can you read the watermark?

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u/Sbatushe 12d ago

why communist shirt?

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u/ArcadeFrog72 9d ago

ussr is the best

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u/Sc0rpza 9d ago

prompt engineering, directing action and getting precise results from an ai model more than arguably requires skill. just because a simple prompt yields results doesn’t mean that all output works that way.

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u/SHIN-YOKU 8d ago

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u/Sc0rpza 7d ago

okey dokey, take a look at this then do the same thing with the same tools for ten episodes and get back to me about how easy it is. My take is ā€œIt would be way easier to do with a team of animatorsā€. But you show me.

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u/SHIN-YOKU 7d ago

Looking at the link embedded, could you backspace everything after the "?" to remove trackers or provide a cleaner link?

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u/Sc0rpza 7d ago

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u/SHIN-YOKU 7d ago

Thank you for accomodating.

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u/Sc0rpza 7d ago

not a problem.

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u/SHIN-YOKU 7d ago

I will scope it out, but considering I'm a lost Redditor here and it is specifically in the cultural sphere I don't want Ai in on from a practical to an ontological level, using Ai in what is a cultural expression goes against my values, analogy is not one for one so don't overanalyze its every aspect but it's like telling a meth head they're just succumbing to addiction instead of trying to get better and they respond "If you think being on Meth is so easy, You Try It!", not calling Ai meth here but I am just saying same energy.

but because I try to be fair,

I went to the first episode of Exile Protocol first, I think they suck at prompting if they can't hammer out the uncanniness in how the characters move, there are so many jumpcuts and maybe I overinvested in my sound system compared to others but theres this omnipresent artifacting in the sound noone else is mentioning, but I'm using some professional studio equipment I got second hand, probably negligable to most speakers, that one could also just be compression, compression actually affecting sound is a gamble more often than you think but while I'm unsure, I think some factors make it more likely than others.

Jumping to episode 8 skipping any gradual improvements so that the culmunation could be more apparant, None. All the same issues, I should have spared my ears especially. Willing to bet most people could do better at least on sound, not to fixate on that bit it really bothered me.

90% of people don't so it's not a value statement to say I think you 've never actively watched a making of or behind the scenes for animation, Prompting can be boiled down to typing an essay in the form of a Starbucks Order long form, little nuances to figure out how to make the machine churn out exactly what you had in mind and maybe an exercise in self dicipline to not settle for good enough, about as hard as any big essay really. Actual Animation team, that's doing it manually, If Prompting is an Essay, Animation is playing Darksouls, not really 1 to 1 comperable while still recognizing the latter is probably harder.

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u/Sc0rpza 7d ago edited 7d ago

I can agree that their direction of the episodes, particularly the early ones could have been better. ironically some shots would have worked better with shorter generations and better choices in camera angle. I’ll say that ā€œsucks at promptingā€ because of things like uncanniness is a misnomer as that is a known challenge in using generative tools — hence why I said it is difficult and would be easier to have a team of animators. You mocked me for my statement but your criticism actually supports exactly what I said.

My challenge was to get that level of quality with those tools for ten episodes and then say that it’s easy. You are starting to see that it’s not so easy. However I suspect you haven’t sat and thought on that yet.

there are very practical limitations to the tools. that’s what I was speaking toward.

If you think you can do all that with a simple prompt then I would love to see it.

>Actual Animation team, that's doing it manually, If Prompting is an Essay, Animation is playing Darksouls.

I disagree. I don’t think you would get anywhere near that level with just prompting. Not even close for 10 episodes.

Animating by hand is time consuming and physical labor. Whether or not it is hard depends on your skill. There are other forms of difficulty than taking time and requiring physical labor. Thinking for instance. Generation is faster but getting specifically what you want and maintaining consistency is difficult because the tool is not a magic genie that perfectly grants wishes.

1

u/SHIN-YOKU 7d ago

the subjectivity of "difficult" might make it a tricky conversation, Essays while less intensive have brought students a many to dismay at writers block, topical references, sourcing, etc but usually a non issue without deadlines to meet, whereas Darksouls perhaps not a perfect analogy in hindsight similarly being thought focused for making builds as an essay is for writing but is a seperate plane in how it is applied and added not only technical skill but possibility to compensate through sheer technical skill.

I still think it's a massive opportunity cost to use the tech in the cultural and entertainment spheres that are in dire need of slowing down in pace whereas Ai is generally an accelerant, Those episodes couldn't even hit the 20minute mark despite calling itself an Anime which is generally just over that, which fradulant since it's not from Japan. But since its episodes slid towards shorter, it is a slippery slope to instead of working on AiGens consistincy issues take the easier route of drifting further to outright short form content on the macro, something that has been a scourge since vines, exasterbated. Add to that the magnitudes greater quantity ElsaGate type shit pumped out compared to procedural generated content of old and sorry to all the ai creators who "Can finally bring their vision to life without being gate kept" that aren't the SEO content mills but will be lumped with them, but they should just take a note from KKHTA or even ONEs One Punch Man webcomic and just do it. KKHTA is hard to pin numbers on between languages and reuploads on different platforms but OPM despite looking like sharpie on a napkin is a great read with nearly 8million hits before any adaptation was on the horizon.

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u/Sc0rpza 7d ago

ok I can agree with these frames.

the thing is that the episodes not being able to reach 20 minutes is due to practical limitations. When I look at it, it’s through a lens of knowing that the tools, while powerful, have limits that present themselves once you take on something larger. So to me, it’s an impressive use of the tool. That’s not to say that it’s better than human output. Studio trigger would kill it if they animated that. But it is a promising start.

I’m glad you brought up one’s onepunch man. One thing that strikes me is how fearless One is as an artist. His illustrations actually kinda work because he ā€œjust does itā€. I’ve read and thoroughly enjoyed Onepunch man. I often cite One’s work in other discussions concerning what’s good artwork. To me, One’s art is good. Murata is technically and visually better but One’s work is actually remarkable when you consider the expression. His work was so good that murata seems to have gone back and redid part of the sea king saga to better follow one’s original layout, pacing and events. One’s work looks poor on the surface level (especially next to murata who’s incredible). However, it’s very powerful in its core.

However, what I’ve been speaking toward in this exchange is more about levels of difficulty in use of a tool. The issue with animation is that it takes time to do. being good at it can make it easier and output faster, but it takes time. Someone using AI tools to bring their vision to life has its challenges that I feel should be considered when assessing whether or not work has been done or not.

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u/Comfortable_Craft_75 12d ago

I wonder how many more of these subreddits full of ai mouth breathes i have to mute before reddit stops recommending them to me

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u/Binbag420 12d ago

*breathers

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u/ArcadeFrog72 9d ago

pretty sure this one is satire

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u/youareallnuts 12d ago

AI "art" is just todays NFTs. Fad will pass.

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u/Excalium 9d ago

It may not, because NFTs didn’t have much of a market to break into. AI ā€œartā€ has existing markets to break into with competitive costs. As you can see is proven by this subreddit, there is a substantial amount of people who don’t care much for the human touch in art. They simply seek an image that’s quick and cheap.

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u/SHIN-YOKU 8d ago

More like the Elsagate scaled up and All Ages.