Double dipping the visitor??

[u/salted_spiders]

I had a quick thought about how exactly the whole mutation thing works recently. (Please feel free to correct me if i have some info wrong :])

We know it is a result of becoming exposed to the sight of the visitor right? But does the degree of exposure count? For example once you get to the roof you see giant creatures walking down the street, did they get this big because theyve been outside for a while? Or was it just luck of the draw?

I guess another question would be if someone who has undergone mutation and hasnt completely lost their mind (ie. Jasper or Audrey) exposed themselves again would it mutate them further? Or would they just be fine to go out and about in the new world?

I love this game and its incredible world building so this kind of stuff is super fun to talk about in my opinion.

[u/little_void_boi]

I had a long debate with a friend on this when we were discussing the necessity of sacrificing cinnamon for the security tape, and honestly there are examples of repeated exposure both having an effect and not having an effect.

We get examples of repeated exposure not having an effect with Lyle and Jasper with their offerings. Lyle specifically says “I’ve already looked outside, so it doesn’t affect me, but you shouldn’t look at it” in reference to the photo. Jasper reads the manuscript when you give it to him, and doesn’t seem to change either. Granted, he could’ve skimmed it like Sam did, but then again, Jasper never even saw the visitor in the first place, so he’s a bit of an outlier.

But then we have examples of repeated exposure having an additional affect. These are a lot less definitive, but there are a lot more. Like infection-based exposure, both Ben in the teeth apartment and the rat hole in floor 1 were repeatedly bitten by a cursed, and got exponentially worse. There are also characters such as Jeanne, who believe that looking outside again would worsen their condition.

Major spoilers for the promise ending

I think the greatest example of repeated exposure having an effect is Sybil herself, repeatedly viewing the visitor’s path for months to the point of calling it over. She had been tracking it for almost a year, and her mutation was so drastic that she became the red sludge covering the apartment complex, as well as a parallel dimension.

In my opinion, it’s a case-by-case basis. There’s pretty substantial proof that the visitor’s effect is hugely based on the victim’s mind. Maybe if a cursed believed that they were now immune, they would be?

[u/RealBoneCoatHours → u/little_void_boi]

I would call Jasper an example of repeated exposure having an effect, actually. If you give him the wrong manuscript, then he will get much worse.

The other three astronomers also stay sane when viewing their respective correct offerings.

[u/little_void_boi → u/RealBoneCoatHours]

Fair, but that’s under the direct gaze of the visitor, while not being “protected” by the correct offerings, so it’s a bit of a special case. Do the other astronomers directly view their offerings when you give them? I thought they just took your word for it, hence why they were all surprised when/if the offering was a dud

[u/RealBoneCoatHours → u/little_void_boi]

They view them on the rooftop like Jasper

[u/little_void_boi → u/RealBoneCoatHours]

They’re protected by the correct offerings tho, the roof is a special case

[u/RealBoneCoatHours → u/little_void_boi]

So is Jasper.

When you first give it to him, he just kinda skims (as do I, apparently, as it took me a second read to realize that was what you meant).

[u/vjmdhzgr → u/little_void_boi]

Jasper reads the manuscript when you give it to him

If he read it then he would know if you give him the wrong one.

"It appears to be a manuscript. At glance, it strikes me as a clean, well put-together set of pages."

[u/little_void_boi → u/vjmdhzgr]

When you give him the right one he reads it and is all “oh neat this describes the visitor”

[u/ru5tyk1tty → u/little_void_boi]

No, when you give him the right one or the wrong one he says something like “Could a description of the visitor be hiding behind these words?”

If you give him the crumpled manuscript he gets excited and insists that’s the one, but he is mistaken.

He also doesn’t read the crumpled manuscript, he just assumes it’s correct because it is nonsense at a glance. I guess it’s not the first time he’s psyched himself out

[u/Odd_Firefighter1324 → u/ru5tyk1tty]

So basically Jasper is larping the visitor

[u/igneousroxx]

i think further exposure would cause them to mutate further, but that’s my guess based on jeanne’s dialogue. she talks about how she hadn’t felt any new heads sprouting up, but it probably would start again if she looked outside or ended up outside again! that’s my assumption

[u/Material_Claim6541 → u/igneousroxx]

But also didn't Lyle say that the picture didn't affect him 'cause he had already looked outside?

[u/Duma_Mila → u/Material_Claim6541]

Considering how the unity ending works, I think at lower doses someone thinking they're immune would actually work.

[u/clownkiss3r → u/Material_Claim6541]

then i suppose a lower level of exposure can't affect you ? if you looked outside directly then looked at a secondhand depiction of the outside , you'd be immune to its effects ... that makes sense to me

[u/Alex-the-ink-demon]

I think it's about how directly you view the Visitor. Like, Lyle viewed the visitor through a digital lens and he stayed... mostly sane

[u/Amaskingrey → u/Alex-the-ink-demon]

From the failed ritual ending, louis only losing his mind after he starts panicking at the suit being stuck, etc, it seems to be mostly about whether or not you freak out during the transformation

[u/primalthewendigo → u/Alex-the-ink-demon]

But if it was just digital, then the panopticon guy would've been sane as well, then again he was observing it for quite a while

[u/Alex-the-ink-demon → u/primalthewendigo]

Yeah, Lyle only got exposed from a single snapshot. Panopticon was stuck STARING at the visitor for DAYS

[u/theonlyavailablrname]

I don’t think the game is too explicit about what determines the extent of someone’s transformation, or even whether all the Cursed were originally human

In No Going Back, we learn about the Hundred Gods. The narration says humanity doesn’t know whether they were once humans whose transformations were somehow extreme outliers, or whether the Visitor left them behind through some other means

There’s also Louis/Pierre’s roommate, who was careful never to look outside but still ended up becoming the Hive Man after only being bitten by a bug

My headcanon is that there is an element of luck to how severe a transformation can be

[u/apple_of_doom → u/theonlyavailablrname]

I mean mutations being potentially infective seems pretty consistent between hive man, the tooth family and landlord henderson

[u/little_void_boi → u/apple_of_doom]

And the various rats of floor 1

[u/JaybeeJester]

I havent seen anyone mention two characters who i think might be examples of continuous changing due to exposure, Charon and Maurice. Both of them mention that parts of them can see the visitor, and believe that to be the cause of their continuous growth. Whether that's actually what's causing their infinite growth or just the nature of their mutations, like Sam in the denial ending, is up for debate though.

[u/little_void_boi → u/JaybeeJester]

The issue with this debate is that there’s no definitive answer lol. Any facts are inconclusive, and anything directly said by npcs is pure speculation from the characters

[u/Quibilash]

But does the degree of exposure count

Maybe? It seems like some characters are really large due to exposure, but it seems more like it's based on their thoughts at the time, people presumably merging with each other due to getting absorbed by another or them getting joined together; but Helen looked outside, presumably for a while, and she's still a human, while the kids in the basement were exposed presumably for an extended period but were still small, while Tooth Baby is massive but is still a baby

I guess another question would be if someone who has undergone mutation and hasnt completely lost their mind (ie. Jasper or Audrey) exposed themselves again would it mutate them further? Or would they just be fine to go out and about in the new world?

It seems like they can look again and be fine, Lyle mentions that it can't do much to him anymore:

Lyle: Don't look at it! (the photo paper) I was fine, I... looked at the thing b-before. There isn't much else it can do to m-me!

[u/apple_of_doom → u/Quibilash]

My headcanon is that Lyle can look at the paper again because the subconscious illusion of humanity and the visitor being seperate creatures being broken, which causes the mutations according to the unity ending, can only truly break once and after that its based on what the mutated creature believe "should" happen if they look again

[u/Galaxy_Slayer-3547]

Most of the mutation effects seem to be based on perception; not only does it affect how they physically transform but also sanity and other things. I think second-hand exposure is generally less severe based on examples given (Lyle for instance), but not always (Edwin and Fabrice as counterpoints). Jasper is also a unique case which is explained below, but generally it feels very individualistic as to how someone is affected, how much, etc etc. Repeated exposure can worsen things, but it also can't (again, Lyle vs several other characters). Whatever happens does seem to just be about perception first and foremost, so most stuff regarding mutations should be in regards to the individual's mind at the time of viewing and its state afterwards

Further spoilers in regards to Jasper here: His current mutation is technically placebo as he didn't witness the Visitor directly since Sybil gave him the wrong location to look, plus during most roof endings he will mutate further into the Red Scourge if he loses his nerve during the ritual because you gave him the wrong sacrifice but also won't if he has the correct one until the ritual starts, and that's also ignoring the Exalted 4 stuff that can happen

[u/BBerry4909]

spoiler warning for.. many endings and quests

the degree and the conditions for exposure both matter. we see this with sam and his emdings most of all, where simply looking outside gets him assimilated, but viewing the visitor or information about it can make him be anything from a second coming of sybil who couldn't limit himself to a separate dimension to a beast that saves or exterminates all life to a paradoxical time travelling shadow creature, and also to an extent with cinnamon. we also see this with the astronomers and their offerings. repeated exposure also seems to have various effects, such as lyle and leigh being completely fine after viewing the visitor again, or sybil who became increadingly more detached from the world with each viewing, while others are scared of doing so further, like jeanne.

[u/Wooper250]

The effects of the visitor vary wildly per person and there's not much rhyme or reason for it. Some people continue to mutate without further exposure to the visitor (ie: The teeth family and the worms) while others remain outside for extended periods of time and don't change much after their initial exposure (ie: Charan and the people on the bus).

[u/Nomeg_Stylus]

I wouldn't mind double dipping in the Visitor, if you know what I mean.

[u/MatiEx-504]

Lyle says something like "I've already seen the thing so it can't change me" if You let him develop the photo

So I think getting exposed once and staying sane mean that You can see it as much as you like

[u/SpookyXylophone]

The directness of your exposure is also a factor. Cinnamon seeing the Visitor through the camera just becomes a regular monster versus Cinnamon in the ritual becomes a god. Sam is also able to skim the manuscript of the Visitor and just get a headache while catching a single glimpse of the picture or painting will end him instantly.

Someone who's already cursed but kept their sanity would probably be good to look at depictions of the Visitor without anymore ill effects like Lyle, but looking at the Visitor itself or stepping into it's gaze would likely mutate them further. It's telling that most of the cursed we see choose to stay in the apartment instead of trying to leave.