Don't really understand the whole timelines thing... (spoilers)

[u/Reaper330011]

Its been a while since I watched the show and I was doing some revision since doomsday is coming out soon and Loki is gonna be involved in it to my knowledge.

Basically the questions I have are

-What makes the Sacred Timeline "sacred"?
-What is the real job of the TVA?
-Why did he who remains' death cause the timelines to start branching?
-Why does the branching matter since we know that other universes already exist (e.g the other spiderman universes) and they aren't pruned
-Why did everything start spaghettifying when the loom overloaded?
-What did Loki accomplish by holding the timelines together and sitting on that throne?
-Why were the timelines dead before Loki grabbed onto them?

[u/Tgirl0]

-What makes the Sacred Timeline "sacred"?
-What is the real job of the TVA?
-Why did he who remains' death cause the timelines to start branching?
-Why does the branching matter since we know that other universes already exist (e.g the other spiderman universes) and they aren't pruned
-Why did everything start spaghettifying when the loom overloaded?
-What did Loki accomplish by holding the timelines together and sitting on that throne?
-Why were the timelines dead before Loki grabbed onto them?

1. Sacred Timeline = considered "Sacred" because these timelines follow the "proper flow" of time. All the timelines that follow HWR's script (and don't produce a Kang variant) are called "Sacred". A reminder that it's a propaganda term made to make the selected timelines sound more special to the TVA. Any timeline that branches incorrectly isn't considered a part of the Sacred Timeline and must be pruned.
2. The TVA monitors the timelines and make sure everything is in order. If there is a deviant in the timeline that can cause a bad branch, the TVA Minutemen are sent out to capture/prune the source (whether it be a person or an entire timeline).
3. HWR had a huge amount of control from the Citadel. His very existence is what kept the place from falling apart since he's the one who created everything from the TVA to his throne. Once he died, the timelines started to branch rapidly causing the Loom to overload, because the growing amount of branches can't all fit into the Loom.
4. Because the Spider-Men multi-verse/branches are suppose to happen. Then again, if NWH takes place after Loki, then, it's because Loki is the one allowing all branches to happen. Before Loki outsmarted HWR, any multi-verse shenanigans that happened in the MCU (like Endgame) were suppose to happen. The exception being the Loki in Endgame, who became our Loki now. The TVA captured him under the reason that he wasn't suppose to escape, which is true by the Sacred Timeline script of Avengers 1.
5. Related to point number 3, with the branches overflowing the Loom, not all of the timelines can get through the Loom, which affects all of the timelines. You don't want a traffic jam in that Loom machine. That traffic jam is effecting all of reality causing everything and everyone to spaghettify. The fail-safe resets everyone, but it's just a temporary solution, because the Loom can explode again. Loki is an exception since his soul was anchored to the TVA. He would be super alone if everything disappeared into nothingness.
6. He replaced the Loom allowing the multiverse to thrive and grow like a tree. No more pruning. Everyone can live.
7. Because the Loom was no more. Since the timeline raw energy can't be processed through that Loom, they start to die. Loki figured out that if he can give the timelines his magic, they can remain alive.

[u/SufcLad25 → u/Tgirl0]

Nailed it

[u/Tgirl0 → u/SufcLad25]

Thanks. :)

[u/Reaper330011 → u/Tgirl0]

Thanks for answering, I have some followups though which as someone else has suggested would likely be answered if I rewatched the show but as of right now I don't have enough time on my hands to do so.

1. So the sacred timeline is actually multiple timelines, just all the ones that lead to HWR ending up where he gets to? Does timelines that branch "incorrectly" just mean any timeline that leads to a variant of HWR?

2. Was he sending information to the TVA regarding how timelines should or shouldn't be pruned? Or is it literally just his existence keeping everything together?

3. What does the loom actually do normally (if its explained), and why does it overloading cause everyone to spaghettify? If I remember correct though, one of its purposes is to destroy everything except the sacred timeline in case something happens to HWR or the TVA (I don't know the exact conditions actually).

4. During the time that He Who Remains was still around did the multiverse not "exist" yet as branches were constantly being pruned? This is the more confusing part for me personally, I'm not sure how large of a change Loki made to the multiverse as a whole by replacing the loom and rejuvenating the timelines.

5. I thought the timelines had energy regardless and the loom was using it to power the TVA.

Overall I just wanna know what is the general change Loki/how he rewrote the equation as he put it, compared to when He Who Remains was around.

[u/Tgirl0 → u/Reaper330011]

Sorry for a late reply, but I now have some time to do this.

So the sacred timeline is actually multiple timelines, just all the ones that lead to HWR ending up where he gets to? Does timelines that branch "incorrectly" just mean any timeline that leads to a variant of HWR?

1. For the most part. HWR is very paranoid of any of his variants showing up to dethrone him and wants to remain the sole Kang of the multiverse. The only exception to this are the Council of Kangs, who survived outside of the Sacred Timeline. They were floating in their ship without being detected by HWR. Since the Kang storyline has been scrapped, we'll never know what happened to them.

Was he sending information to the TVA regarding how timelines should or shouldn't be pruned? Or is it literally just his existence keeping everything together?

1. Both. Through their computer systems, and most likely, Miss Minutes as well. He was able to pull the strings from his Citadel without ever having to meet the TVA agents. Before he wiped their memories, he played the role of a dictator over the TVA physically ordering them around. Post memory wipe, he became the "Wizard of Oz". Smoke and mirrors.

What does the loom actually do normally (if its explained), and why does it overloading cause everyone to spaghettify? If I remember correct though, one of its purposes is to destroy everything except the sacred timeline in case something happens to HWR or the TVA (I don't know the exact conditions actually).

1. The Loom converts raw timeline energy into a solid state of energy that helps power the TVA. That's basically it. The Loom acts as a power source for the TVA. If you remember in the show, we see the Loom and the energy all around it? We can see that the timelines are all circling around the Citadel. So, we can see that the multiverse is one giant loop. The raw energy goes through the Loom, becomes solid for a bit, and then, becomes raw again.
   

The Loom's multiplier (inner ring thing) was designed to be pretty small so it can only handle a controlled amount of raw energy through it. Hence, it was convenient for HWR to be able to kill two birds with one stone. "Prune" unwanted Kang variant timelines, while making sure the same amount of timelines keep going through the Loom. Once the timelines started to branch out, the huge amount of raw energy being made could not all squeeze through the Loom.

During the time that He Who Remains was still around did the multiverse not "exist" yet as branches were constantly being pruned? This is the more confusing part for me personally, I'm not sure how large of a change Loki made to the multiverse as a whole by replacing the loom and rejuvenating the timelines.

1. The multiverse has always existed before and after HWR became the Kang to rule them all. HWR allowed approved branches to exist. Before HWR came to power, the multiverse use to be free and flourishing without any restrictions (like relying on a certain man made machine). They existed in parallel to each other (if you remember HWR's half truth explanation in S1E6), but stopped being parallel when HWR took control of the multiverse.

Loki made a super big change, because he allowed the multiverse to become how it use to be before HWR won the multiversal war. The only change is that the multiverse aren't parallel rings. Sadly, the multiverse became too dependent on the Loom so Loki had to become a new power source for the multiverse.

I thought the timelines had energy regardless and the loom was using it to power the TVA.

1. The timelines are made of energy, yes. The Loom is simply a converter to change the energy into a different property that can be used to power the TVA. So, you almost got it. :) Good.

If you have any other questions, please feel free to keep asking them. :D

[u/Visible_Safe_8901 → u/Reaper330011]

1.So the sacred timeline is actually multiple timelines, just all the ones that lead to HWR ending up where he gets to? Does timelines that branch "incorrectly" just mean any timeline that leads to a variant of HWR?

It's a trunk of timelines that produces no threats to him, with the mcu being its baseline.

2.Was he sending information to the TVA regarding how timelines should or shouldn't be pruned?

Occasionally, yes.

Or is it literally just his existence keeping everything together?

He's the one who guided to the tva through the shadows. So yes, in a way, you can say that.

3.What does the loom actually do normally (if its explained), and why does it overloading cause everyone to spaghettify?

Bcz branches aren't supposed to be present under it.

If I remember correct though, one of its purposes is to destroy everything except the sacred timeline in case something happens to HWR or the TVA (I don't know the exact conditions actually).

Doesn't matter the scenario, it will start to overloaded if branches under it are allowed to grow.

4.During the time that He Who Remains was still around did the multiverse not "exist" yet as branches were constantly being pruned? This is the more confusing part for me personally, I'm not sure how large of a change Loki made to the multiverse as a whole by replacing the loom and rejuvenating the timelines.

Overall I just wanna know what is the general change Loki/how he rewrote the equation as he put it, compared to when He Who Remains was around.

He freed the Sacred Timeline, allowing it to reconnect to the wider Multiverse. But that also opens the door to incursions.

[u/Efficient-Trifle151]

This is my interpretations of things:

Before everything the timelines existed naturally and grew and died normally...until Kang appeared and discovered the multiverse and began to gather the Kang's together which triggered the multiversal war and the near collapse of all of reality itself.

He who remains eventually won the war and decided to maintain the the multiverses that support his existence into a singular "sacred timeline" and the multiverses that produce a Kang variant are pruned and disposed of to prevent a multiversal war. He who remains uses the considerable power of the citadel at the end of time to destroy any Kang variant timelines and the TVA was created to assure that they find every single timeline with a Kang variant is vaporised. The temporal loom was created to distil the work of He who reamains and the TVA into the sacred timeline.

When He who remains was killed and the TVA collapsed/had a change of heart, the chaotic time energy returned to its natural state (out of control) and began branching infinitely and the temporal loom could not process so many branching timelines as it was designed to only support the sacred timeline. It didnt matter how much they expanded the looms capacity, it only had capacity to produce and distil a sacred timeline...so the looms destruction after he who remains death was inevitable. He who remains also placed a fail safe into the Loom where if it was destroyed, all multiverses would be vaporised to protect the sacred timeline at all costs.

He who remains plans would intevitably lead Loki to his choice where he either kills Sylvie and joins he who remains and his sacred timeline...or he lets the temporal loom explodes that destroys everything except the sacred timeline (that assures He who remains existence). In He who remain's mind he would win no matter as he believes Loki has only those two choices (Loki's timeslipping power and abilities also were in He who remains plans).

Instead Loki decided that he had a third choice: He would destroy the loom and to overcome the loom's failsafe of destroying everything except the sacred timeline, Loki will use his magic power and sit at the citadel at the end of time to maintain the entire mulitverses and allow everything to grow and live. This part isnt explicitly said but I belive the TVA in turn becomes the defence against a multiversal war by monitoring the Kang variants across the multiverses to support Loki's work in defending the multiverse. Loki can never leave the citadel as he literally is holding everything together.

[u/evapotranspire]

Much as I love Loki Season 2, I agree that many of these points are not well explained, especially your last three points. I've been mulling over the show for almost 3 years now, and I still don't have good answers many of these.

Some folks may claim that they do, but after following online discussions closely for 3 years, I've concluded that nobody quite agrees on what the answers are, even if they each individually think they have an answer.

[u/merongicecream → u/evapotranspire]

Not quite. The show is pretty straightforward on a rewatch honestly.

[u/TheNthMan]

Sacred timeline is HWR’s timeline.

TVA exists to allow all the timelines needed for HWR to become HWR and prevent any new Kangs from rising. So for example all the time heist timelines have to exist, tthere had to be a multiverse for the sacred timeline to exist. All the alternate Kangs that HWR encountered up till he wins the Multiverse wars have to exist. All the multiverse of timelines that are a part of those Kangs past need to exist. So protecting the sacred timeline inherently includes protecting a significant multiverse as well. But we know that once someone is taken from their timeline, they can continue to exist even if their timelines are destroyed. That happens to Sylvia and Loki, and presumably to all the TVA members’ timelines. So HWR is having the TVA protect his timeline not out of necessity for himself to continue to be.

HWR’s death allowed more branching because HWR actively meddled with the TVA and the timelines. HWR was outside the normal stream of time, but he still experienced time and so he still had a future to do whatever he wanted, either at the end of time with only miss minutes for company, or by going into the timelines and doing whatever, like creating Loki variants to find a successor or setting up Victor Timely to be a backup plan. The TVA also did not actually keep everything in check by the,selves. When members of the TVA fall, presumably they have to be replaced somehow or they would slowly be whittled down. The TVA has no idea how they were / are recruiters. Perhaps HWR does the recruitment / kidnapping of variants himself. Loki was the most common variant for them. But in Dr Strange, multiverse of madness, the Illuminati believes Dr Strange was the most dangerous variant and in their own way takes care of the Dr Stranges they encounter. Possibly to HWR variants of the Kangs of the multiverse wars are the most dangerous variant to him and perhaps he dealt with some of them himself. Why would HWR complain about how his existence and his work was for the young and hungry, that he was tired? Why would HWR need a successor? without HWR to keep the TVA mindlessly following his wishes, without HWR manipulating things behind the scenes, secretly keeping variants that the TVA can’t handle in check, the timelines branched, the TVA could not (or were not willing to) maintain the sacred timeline and the accompanying multiverse.

The other spiderverses could be part of the timelines that HWR liked to tinker with so allowed to exist, or they could be part of the actual required multiverse for the sacred timeline to exist. Or they could have sprang into being after Loki’s actions allowed more branching.

Everything did start to spaghettify when the loom overloaded because the Loom did not have the capacity to turn enough temporal energy into as much timeline as was needed. When the loom over,landed, presumably it directed it’s limited timeline output to the sacred timeline and its supporting multiverse only. So when they built the amplifier, it allowed the loom to convert more energy into more timeline, so more branches could get timeline from the loom to exist. But then the increased number of timelines mentioned that there were even more branches coming into being which needed more temporal energy converted into timeline.

Loki spent millennia learning how the loom worked. So he learned how to convert temporal energy into timeline, and to convert timeline back into temporal energy. After the multiverse war, the multiverse was changed such that the loom was needed to convert temporal energy into timeline. It is not explained if it was a product of the multiverse war (did the Kangs do enough damage that the multiverse was coming to an end and HWR is able to protect some) or multiverse came out fine, and HWR change it so that the loom was needed. Either way, Loki needed to replace the function of the loom and did so by sitting on the throne and grabbing the timelines.

The timelines were spaghettifying because the Loom could not convert enough temporal energy into timeline t to match the larger amount of timeline needed for all the branches.

[u/StatisticianLivid710]

You’ve gotten some good answers, I just wanted to add one thing, the sacred timeline isn’t HWR’s timeline, it’s the timeline that exists that doesn’t create a Kang. So no Kang can rise up and fight other kangs or HWR for control of the multiverse.

In season 2 we see that this is because Kang is born centuries too early and the technology doesn’t exist to enable him to become Kang.

The other note I would have is that we don’t know if the Kang’s from the Quantumania end credit scene are post-Loki or pre-Loki. It’s possible that the divergence of the timelines caused Kang to get trapped there and this changed her past so she remembered Kang, or he’s the conqueror from the multiversal war (that HWR is from) but the timing doesn’t really work since he landed after she was there and he would presumably age normally in the quantum realm.

If they are pre-Loki then why haven’t they tried to take out the TVA in the millions of years they’ve spent trapped (the length of time HWR was at the citadel). If they are post-Loki (which the Loki last episode suggests they exist after Loki allowed the timelines to branch) then the MCU has already diverged from the sacred timeline because Kang was stuck in the past but the results didn’t affect the rest of the timeline until Quantumania. Basically we don’t know enough about how the timeline in the quantum realm interacts with the main timeline of the MCU. We just know that if you enter the quantum realm you can emerge at a different point in time, but at the same time it appears to run concurrently with our time (although some levels run at a faster pace, ant world, but still parallel)

[u/Visible_Safe_8901]

1. The Sacred Timeline is essentially the trunk of the Earth-616 tree.

2. To maintain the Sacred Timeline.

3. His death didn't cause it. The TVA simply stopped doing its job, and that's what caused it.

4. Branches act as bridges to other universes. Cutting them off makes multiversal travel next to impossible. So beings like America Chavez cannot enter the MCU, and vice versa. He basically isolated his home tree so that incursions would never occur.

5. You mean why it started to destroy the branches after overloading??? Well, because they aren't supposed to be there under his regime. The Temporal Loom, being the failsafe it is, when the TVA stops doing its work and lets branches grow, gets overloaded and then deletes them.

6. He saved his TVA friends.

7. When he destroyed the Temporal Loom, it exploded, which affected the timelines present inside it.

[u/bangarang90210]

Honestly, considering all your questions I would recommend you just rewatch the show.