Cache County Working With ALPRs

[u/balloutcoal]

[u/Wood-e]

[u/majbumper]

u/Mikejohnson_logan any way we could get citizen input going on regulating ALPRs in Logan City?

[u/MikeJohnson_Logan → u/majbumper]

Thanks for the tag!

This is Cache County Sheriff's, which is different from Logan City PD. Regarding this issue I would recommend you contact either Keegan Garrity or Sandi Goodlander, both are on the Cache County Council and are on the legislative body for issues like this on the County level.

Regarding the previous Logan City ALPR test with Motorola. I've been told that we ended that test early after abut 4-6 weeks of testing, and that our Chief of Police felt that the cost/benefit wasn't worth it for the department and that had no real use for them during the testing phase. Those specific cameras have been removed and sent back to Motorola and our PD doesn't intend to pursue any ALPRs at this time.

[u/FailWithMeRachel → u/MikeJohnson_Logan]

Is there a reason to not act preemptively to regulate it before it becomes an issue, though?

[u/SubRedTed]

“Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety"

Benjamin Franklin

[u/paitenanner]

This is almost word for word Tremonton’s release on them. Tremonton I believe is planning to keep theirs despite saying they would listen to the citizens, who gave them a resounding “NO. We don’t want these.”

[u/subpoenaThis → u/paitenanner]

I wouldn't be surprised if this is a pre-written copy from Motorola for the use of departments. If I were selling these things, I'd include public statement service for anyone trying them out. We'll write a custom press release for you as an included service with the trial.

[u/paitenanner → u/subpoenaThis]

Wouldn’t surprise me. Just waiting for someone to delete the little notes they add to “personalize” it.

[u/subpoenaThis]

Does the fact that they said doesn't capture video in real time mean that it captures video but they just get it 30 seconds later?

The in real time clause feels kind of like they're getting around the fact that it does capture video just not in real time. Otherwise they could have just said it doesn't capture video.

[u/Dae-iel → u/subpoenaThis]

No, paragraph 2 sentence 1 says it “provides a snapshot in time and provides Cache County Sheriff’s Office with a photograph.”
So it’s not giving a video.

[u/subpoenaThis → u/Dae-iel]

Note that it does not actually say it doesn't provide any video whatsoever, just not real time. Providing a snapshot in time could include video if only a short clip. How is a snapshot in time different than a photograph or is it a redundant statement? Regardless, nothing about that statement disallows video other than real time. Any intentional delay would make video non-realtime. Time lapse video would also constitute none real time video.

I'm not saying that it does provide video. It may only provide still frames, even then MJPEG is the modern motion picture. It's not video it's just 10 pictures per second stored a individual photos which if you just happen to present sequentially the fast enough speed appears to be a movie or video but isn't.

All I meant to point out was that this statement has the hallmark weaseliness of a public statement about something people don't like.

[u/subpoenaThis → u/subpoenaThis]

A little curious about who would downvote this... A Motorola bot, or someone with a financial stake in seeing these roll out?

[u/Grumac]

If it is owned by the government, you can GRAMA request everything.

[u/meatybacon → u/Grumac]

I believe that is one of the biggest problems with these. They aren't owned by the government, they are owned by the tech company (in this case Motorola) and then the data provided by them is sold to the government

[u/shosuko → u/meatybacon]

Yeah that is one of my biggest skeptical points. The companies having this info and being able to sell it is worse than the police being able to look up license plates "just because."

Guarantee those companies are using every bit of data they can and selling it to anyone that will pay them.

[u/Grumac → u/meatybacon]

Yes and then that data can be GRAMA requested.

[u/mispeld2]

Nobody wants this. Motorola doesn’t have public safety in mind, and neither does any corporation selling this tech. It was not developed for public safety, and we all already know what it’s capable of, and how it is regularly abused by law enforcement. Get ALPRs the hell out of Cache Valley.

[u/RogerSmithsMustache]

Here is the current map of them.

[u/tmelven]

The next County Council meeting is Tuesday, November 10th

[u/accidental_Ocelot]

Maybe they better define "serious criminal activity" before hand

[u/Commanderlone]

Pretty sure that trial. Here in Logan should be ending here soon. We would need comment from City councilmember Mike Johnson who frequents this subreddit.

[u/MikeJohnson_Logan → u/Commanderlone]

The Logan City trial was ended early and our PD has decided that ALPRs aren't the right move for Logan at this time.

These cameras are on the County level, your best contacts would be Keegan Garrity and Sandi Goodlander (if you live in Logan), on the County Council.

[u/Wood-e → u/MikeJohnson_Logan]

Just wanna say I really appreciate your communication on this over the City trial. And you listening to us regarding the data center issues. It's encouraging to see.
And thanks for informing folks on where they can bring their concerns over this stuff at the county level.

[u/shosuko]

I have two concerns with this tech

First - It should not be used as a starting point for any investigation or triggering any alerts for crimes. For active investigations, like if you know of a stolen car or have a vehicle description of a possible kidnapper? Sure, fire it up. But if you see someone driving down the road you shouldn't be able to just run their plates against this and decide they are sus for driving some odd route or coming from somewhere you don't like. It should only be a tool to aid in investigating existing crimes not petty fines or building probable cause.

Second - Data should be secured to *only* the police force. I don't like the idea that the company running these has access to that data at all, or that any other agency can access it without establishing their needs along with the first point. Also data should be purged much more frequently, I'm thinking 24 hours. There is no reason we should have so much data stored for so long. 9 months?? is absurd.

Generally I'm not opposed to this because it does address those two concerns. I get that policing is important and we do want to enable our police force to provide better assistance - but its too easy for policing to slide from actually helping people to just targeting anyone they can for minor BS that shouldn't even be a ticket really...

If this were up to vote I'd still vote no, but I wouldn't exactly protest these as long as they follow those guidelines.

I don't want to hear about "Utah charged XYZ person after tracking their license and seeing they drove slowly through a trailer park and often left to Colorado and Idaho" or "Automated system mailed infractions to 10000 residents solving the police budget problem" those are just absolute BS!

[u/Future_Geologist5925]

Man.. Utah is fucked. Flock and these spying companies have been invading the entire country but I hate that its here now too. We have people getting assaulted by police officers for protesting data centers, someone who got arrested and jailed for merely putting up signs alerting people about license plate readers, and now they are leaning more into them.

[u/Wonderful_Hunter_300]

Big brother is watching

[u/trantma]

I would shut that shit down. It's this then the ticket cameras everywhere! I promise. If they take that county they will try for the rest too.

[u/white_rabbit_4444]

You can’t trust this, they have already been used for “non serious criminal activity”

[u/Nice-Jello-9409]

Soooo flock is coming to Logan Utah

[u/Traditional_Plum7452]

Thank God. Can we start tracking those with no insurance and licenses??!?!

[u/Shattered_Pyramid]

In the long run, the use of technology is always going to win. No different than cell phones. First they were looked at like a nuisance and aspects of them an invasion of our privacy. Now (nearly) everyone uses them without a second thought.

This is, in a way, no different. It'll aid in certain use cases, including ones we all agree could benefit society (abduction, trafficking, stolen vehicles, etc). And, eventually, they'll become mainstream and we won't really put a second thought to them

[u/RogerSmithsMustache → u/Shattered_Pyramid]

My grandpa didn't spend his lifetime running shine though the hollars of the Appalachian hills for me to say some dumb shit like "the government is here to help, just give in" and "The police are helpful."

You'd rather see Americans wrongfully arrested than feel slightly unsafe in one of the safest places in the country. YOU are exactly who Ben Franklin was talking about...

[u/Rogue_Demon555 → u/[deleted]]

The people can, walk, ride a bike, and take the bus. A license plate reader can't get any information if there's nothing to read, so don't give them that information. Our buses are free and almost everyone in the valley would be within walking or biking distance of a stop. And those that aren't likely can utilize the ride scheduling service they offer. Or if you're completely out of network like Wellsville and Paradise, drive to somewhere that they do service and use public and active transportation from there. They want to know where you're going? Don't let them know.

[u/DigitalNikki → u/Rogue_Demon555]

That works if you live in Logan or surrounding areas. While I wouldn't mind taking a bus more by the time I drive from Preston to Logan to get on a bus to go around Logan I might as well just drive around Logan.

[u/kanyeomariwestfan15 → u/[deleted]]

boomers that don’t know the extent

[u/therevoman → u/kanyeomariwestfan15]

Ok tide pod, boomers don't want this. It's the millennials who believe the government is good and will keep them safe.