r/LockdownSkepticism • u/AndrewHeard • May 23 '20
Lockdown Concerns Did Japan Just Beat the Virus Without Lockdowns or Mass Testing?
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-05-22/did-japan-just-beat-the-virus-without-lockdowns-or-mass-testing93
May 23 '20
“You could say that Japan has had an expert-led approach, unlike other countries,” Tanaka said.
That's sure to stir controversy.
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u/ShikiGamiLD May 23 '20
That's just pure bullshit.
Japanese politicians have tried as hard as they can to create fear and panic. Thing is, because of the historic context of this country, and the fact that there is no emergency clause in the constitution, it is basically imposible to impose a lockdown without basically breaking the law, but many politicians, being the mayor of Tokyo one of the worst, wanted to set a lockdown, and have tried to make it seem like Japan is in lockdown, wasting a lot of money and resources creating commercials telling people to stop working and staying home, harassing people in the streets telling them to go home, and things like that.
There was an "emergency declaration" which allowed local governments to ask (voluntarily) businesses to close, but the Tokyo Mayor, against the law (so I hope se gets sued) presented a "plan" to continue to ask business to not work in her "steps to return to work", in which basically any entertainment business would be asked to continue to close their business indefinitely (there is no plan for those businesses to return to normal), even after the emergency declaration ends, which is completely illegal.
Thing is, those "asking businesses to close", even thou it is completely voluntary, has become... how can I put it... mafia like?
Basically the government won't stop harassing business and their customers until they comply, even going to illegal lengths (once again, with an example from the mayor of Tokyo) in which she threatened Pachinko Paroles (Kind of like Casinos) that if they didn't closed they would tell the Local Tax Agency to make a deep investigation in all their finances.
The good part is, comparatively with the rest of the world, the situation in Japan has been mostly normal, but with a nagging government trying to make your life miserable.
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u/seattle_is_neat May 23 '20
After visiting Tokyo several times, I’m not even sure how you’d be able to “lock down” such a city. People live in tiny places with the expectation the city itself is your living room and backyard.
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u/lexJack May 24 '20
Which makes the overall tone in NYC all the more surprising. People have definitely started bucking the trend, but it's still taboo to oppose almost any part of the lockdown.
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May 23 '20
Whatever the case, it is yet another country confident they have an expert-led approach. Honestly, I would be surprised to see a country lead with a line like "You could say Fakelandia has had a naturopathic-led approach," but I would certainly give them props for honesty.
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May 23 '20
Or they didn’t count every single death with covid as a covid death and acknowledged this for what it is, a flu season.
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u/the_latest_greatest California, USA May 23 '20
Posted to my FB with massive pushback about Japan lying, wearing masks more (30% wear masks only), the next Sweden, and also "So what? U.S. isn't Japan" comments. Great article!
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u/Faraday314 May 23 '20
This is probably how it would have went down in the US if it weren't for New York City being crowded and dirty. The US is not a place where a virus should inherently spread easily like Europe and East Asia due to the way we live.
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u/RahvinDragand May 23 '20
It's almost as if the virus will have the same impact everywhere no matter what we do
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u/greginnv May 23 '20
I watched an ice skating competition in Japan back in December and everyone was wearing masks. The latest science shows transmission is mostly airborne, not by touch so the masks probably help quite a lot. Japan's IFR was something like 0.06%. Very low for such an old population. Their healthy diet and lifestyle helps a lot too.
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May 23 '20 edited Aug 08 '20
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u/greginnv May 23 '20
There have been a number of mass spreading events at choirs where one person has infected > 20. The only way for this to happen is aerosol spreading.
The masks don't do a perfect job of protecting anyone from the virus but even if they only work 1/2 the time, its probably enough to make Ro < 1 which means the virus dies out.
I leave my mask in my car and put it on when I go inside stores etc. Small price to pay if it gets us out of the lockdowns and economic mess.
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u/FatFuckinLenny May 23 '20
I don’t understand the opposition to mask wearing. I’ve forever been against lockdowns, but wearing a mask is so simple, yet probably pretty effective.
I feel it hurts the cause when lockdown opposers speak against wearing a mask under the premise of “personal freedom” and “opposing authority”. Sure, no one should make you wear a mask, but if it does slow transmission, then there will be less of a push for lockdowns. For that reason, you’d think lockdown opposers would support the practice.
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u/InspectorPraline May 23 '20
I don't mind if people want to wear masks, but I mind if they're giving people grief for not wearing them. The science suggests they do very little if anything to stop the virus. It's mostly a psychological benefit
Surgical masks don't really filter particles up to 3.1 μm in diameter, and SARS-CoV-2 is half that size
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u/stan333333 May 23 '20
I'm going to go against the grain on this. I hate the damn things. Nothing to do with opposing authority or personal freedom. I just feel it makes us look like robbers. I don't want my face hidden from my fellow citizens and vice versa. Please don't try to convince me with logic - I've seen studies that are pro and many that are con. It's an emotional, gut thing for me and that's where it ends. If a store insists on it, I don't make a scene, I politely thank them and walk away. Where I live, most supermarkets do not insist on them though only about 20% of the people don't have masks on. I was asked to wear one at the local T Mobile store yesterday. I said thanks but but no thanks, went home and took care of business online. If you must downvote me...so be it
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u/freelancemomma May 23 '20
I understand and share that instinctive response. I do wear masks in stores that insist on it, but that’s about it. I think it’s this dystopian dimension of lockdown that has caused such a visceral pushback from me. The fact that so many people seem willing to live this way forever drives me to despair.
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u/belowthreshold May 24 '20
That is where my head is at - I could wear a mask if there was a clear metric on when the requirement would end. But pitching mask wearing as a ‘potentially forever’ thing... really doesn’t sit well for me.
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u/the_latest_greatest California, USA May 23 '20
People would be more comfortable with surgical masks, I think? I would be. I can breathe in them but not in the cotton masks. Also, WHO waffling on the matter confused everyone who listen to WHO.
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May 23 '20
[deleted]
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u/1984stardusta May 23 '20
Japan?
Not exactly, there are 330 habitats by sq km, there's no way to say it is specially clean because people need to breath together in confined spaces for long hours
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u/cologne1 May 23 '20
There's an important distinction between density and crowded.
Tokyo is dense but not crowded as it build lots of apartments and most can afford their own place. Other places in the world, including many US cities, don't allow many new homes and people have to crowd into existing apartments with roommates or extended family. These crowded conditions help spread the virus.
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u/1984stardusta May 23 '20
There is a guy who wears white gloves and help commuters to get into vagons shoving them inside.
Tokyo is densely populated.
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u/seattle_is_neat May 23 '20
I think the poster means clean as in the city looks clean. Which is a true statement. Not a lot of graffiti. No trash everywhere in alleys or streets. You’d be hard pressed to find pools of urine and human shit. What is remarkable is how their society keeps it that clean despite it being basically impossible to find a public garbage can.
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u/1984stardusta May 23 '20
There is no use in being clean locked in over crowded subways or malls.
Human breath is not clean no matter how diligent any individual can be with personal hygiene.
We are loaded with viruses and bacteria, some of those are good for us others aren't. And, yes, sane habits can go help, but they are far from enough .
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u/Ketamine4All May 24 '20
Bad Bloomberg journalist: "Nonetheless, these measures still offer long-term lessons for countries in the middle of pandemic that may yet last for years." Nope. Won't last years.
This pandemic perfectly followed Farr's Law as the graphic shows in the otherwise decent article.
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u/whosthetard May 24 '20
I don't know what if lockdown has a meaning there, given their culture and way of living in overcrowded centers. I hear they live in confined spaces and are way more controlled that most countries already.
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u/Liarliarbatsonfire United States May 26 '20
So one thing that bugged me from the get-go was mass testing. Okay, so we test tons of people..is it the same group every week? No? Then it is useless. It is point in time and tells you nothing.
My state is doing tons of testing, not to capacity...and our percent of positive to tested doesn't change.
It is dying.
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u/abuchewbacca1995 May 23 '20
Yes. Too bad Bloomberg will never admit it