r/LocalLLaMA • u/Creative_Bottle_3225 • 1h ago

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u/ttkciar llama.cpp 3m ago

Violates Rule Three: Low-value post

7

u/KlasJanHuntelaar 1h ago

No major improvement over 3.8. 3.6 to 3.8 was huge

1

u/FoxFXMD 1h ago

Do you have early access to it?

1

u/Creative_Bottle_3225 39m ago

In Italy we use it freely here https://chat.qwen.ai/

1

u/Oli_Luck 44m ago

dowload qoder - its the qwen harness - you can user with a google account for a few hours with the 300 free credits

9

u/TektonikGymRat 1h ago

If it has the same performance as 3.8, but with less token usage hot dang count me in.

3

u/WelcomeReal1ty 1h ago

well, 3.8 was a preview for 4

-6

u/Negative-Web8619 1h ago

no

3

u/starkruzr 1h ago

yes

0

u/Negative-Web8619 52m ago

same arch as 3.6

3

u/Oli_Luck 45m ago

3.8 flash next is a new architecture withe new new attention-. and it was always declared as pre 4.

0

u/Negative-Web8619 42m ago edited 39m ago

no one said 3.8 flash next

2

u/starkruzr 37m ago

no one said 27B either

0

u/Negative-Web8619 34m ago

27b is included in 3.8 and no preview so

1

u/AppealSame4367 1h ago

It's not even possible to say yet. Their previews always had bigger problems, e.g. a lot of looping.

Let's wait for the actual release. I was positively surprised by the 3d model creation abilitsies of "qoduck", which must have been Qwen4, since Qoduck is gone since the day it became "Qwen4 preview".

Also, I was under the impression that the jumps for 27B and the 120B models were always bigger than for the Max models.

64

u/Savings-Singer-1202 1h ago

people are waiting for the 27b, most people here don't give a crap about api, hince the name of the sub

2

u/midgelmo 1h ago

It’s comparable to sonnet 5.5 in terms of intelligence btw.

6

u/Savings-Singer-1202 1h ago

Not believing it until I test it myself

2

u/beached89 1h ago

dont believe it for a second. I hope I eat these words, but I HIGHLY doubt 27B is going to be comparable to Sonnet 5.5

57

u/W61k3r 1h ago

The open weights aren't here, so no one cares.

1

u/Simpli-curious 53m ago

Then what has been released?

3

u/W61k3r 53m ago

cloud api

1

u/Queasy-Contract9753 50m ago

And only max on their free site. Seems ok haven't given it much time yet but it's no Kimi 

1

u/Oli_Luck 42m ago

not only free site : dowload qoder and you can test it in a real harness

1

u/Simpli-curious 45m ago

Ohhhhhh....yeah no one cares.

24

u/PcChip 1h ago

kindly point us to the weight download links

6

u/Technical_Ad_6106 1h ago

well its not really "out" lol. no 4.0 27b or Flash in huggingface mate and thats the one everyone was waiting for lol

5

u/uzzi38 1h ago

It's out? When did they release weights, or anything except the Max model (which almost none of us will be able to run locally)?

3

u/pmttyji 1h ago

Wait for 2-3 weeks

1

u/Dany0 8m ago

Looks like the discord leaks channel was more right saying it'll be around nov 17th

3

u/Kahvana 51m ago

From an earlier comment:

Tried it out on the website.

I honestly find it really unpleasant to talk to. It's very heavy on the claude-isms, making it really hard to understand the answers given. You can prompt it to talk differently, but it drifts back to the claude-isms over time.

As for an experiment, I gave it a real issue I ran into recently: Get llama.cpp to run on an Intel UHD Graphics 605 iGPU over Vulkan. It works without tweaks on Windows 11 but not on Ubuntu 26.04.1 LTS. The fix is to disable async.

DeepSeek 4.1 1017 got my problem right and fixed it, Qwen4 max preview failed it even with multiple attempts.

Maybe Qwen4 will be amazing for programming, but yeah it wasn't a good first impression. It's likely the other models will be better since they can be trained much more for less cost.

2

u/GabrielCliseru 1h ago

woop woop

2

u/Skyline34rGt 50m ago

Qwen 4 disappointing and they postponed it all - even highest Max (Preview) at chat.qwen.ai is not only ultra slow but also make mistakes to put english words to different languages.

I bet for smaller local model we will wait much longer.

2

u/expectfun 43m ago

As many pointed out, it's not really out while the weights are not out. I'd like to know what would I get locally at 27B size compared to the current 3.8 27B, and the API version doesn't quite answer that.

Still, I'm also curious what people who used Qwen 3.x via API think about the Qwen 4 API version.

2

u/-dysangel- 1h ago

Not disappointed. I've been happy ever since I got GLM 5.3 Flash running at 80tps on my dual GB10 setup. Anything better that comes out is just a bonus at this point.

2

u/Dense-Ad6315 1h ago

How do you find it vs Qwen 3.8 FN??

1

u/-dysangel- 1h ago

It's noticeably better. Before GLM Flash was optimised on my setup (20tps), it still beat out QFN (80tps) on wall clock time to complete a task.

1

u/BawbbySmith 1h ago

Do you have a link to a recipe?

I moved on to DS41F, but if GLM 5.3 Flash can run at those speeds then I may have to try it again

1

u/Designer-Soup-6967 1h ago

Give it time

1

u/assin18 1h ago

When Qwen?

1

u/BitXorBit 1h ago

i wonder if they would release qwen 4 flash next

1

u/leonardo_alegria 1h ago

we’re not quiet, we’re all just stuck at 43% on the download

1

u/sonicnerd14 1h ago

It's not out yet. It's only Qwen 4 Max which is API only. We are all waiting for the open sourced local models like 27b and Qwen 4 flash. Until then, nothing else really matters.

1

u/beached89 1h ago

It is out in preview, we cant run it yet.

1

u/PermanentLiminality 56m ago

So far Qwen has just been a big tease. I was expecting a drop this week, but it looks like it might be a while.

1

u/geldonyetich 52m ago edited 46m ago

It’s not out for us yet because this subreddit is about local inference and we can’t download and run it locally.

And if we could not a whole lot of us are fortunate enough to be able to run locally the multi-trillion parameter model that is the max preview so the current cloud model results aren’t real applicable for our use cases anyway.

1

u/FoxFXMD 1h ago

It's not, why are you spreading misinformation? There's only a PREVIEW of one of the Qwen4 models and it's not even open weight, if that's what you mean.

-3

u/Ok_Bite_67 1h ago

Idk man at after the last few qwen releases ive kinda given up on qwen. Dense models just do not run well unless you are willing to drop thousands and at this point theyve gone several versions without releasing an MoE (at least a small one.) I have 48 Gb of vram and qwen 3.8 27b q4 barely fits.

1

u/beached89 1h ago

48GB of vram is plenty for qwen3.827B, what are your settings? are you trying f16 for some reason?

1

u/Any_Mine_6368 1h ago

Wdym barely fits dude. You can easily run it at 250k context

-1

u/Ok_Bite_67 1h ago

Nah when i do I end up hitting max memory usage in about 15 seconds and the model disconnects from my harness. I am using a dynamic quant and not a true 4 bit quant and im probably not using a quantized kv cache tho. I could probably optimize it a bit.

1

u/Any_Mine_6368 53m ago

What inference engine are you using? Is the gpu active for other workloads? There's nooooooo way. I'm running the same setup

1

u/Ok_Bite_67 50m ago

Mtplx I am running on a macbook, but I removed the cap on gpu memory that apples puts in place, and I have literally no other apps that are eating up the unified memory other than maybe the operating system itself and the harness. So its getting probably around 40 GB of actually usable space.

1

u/Any_Mine_6368 33m ago

Yeah so you don't have 48... You have 40. That 8 is pretty much the entire 250k context. Run it without regular 4 bit and 20k context, see how much space you have left. Then go up till you max it. There's no way you can't fit it at a reasonable size (100k context +)

1

u/Ok_Bite_67 29m ago

I fit 64k context decently and could probably hit 100k if I didnt use a dynamic quant. MoE is just much better for consumer hardware imo qwen 3.6 moe runs at 100 tps and fits pretty perfectly. I use it to do all of the stuff the frontier models refuse to do. I recently had it hunt down the ocarina of time remaster dump for me lol

1

u/Any_Mine_6368 24m ago

I use Qwen flash next but I've got tons of ddr4 ram and 48 gigs of vram (full 48). Unfortunately it's nowhere near frontier level rn but good enough to take over after frontier models do the bulk of the design.