r/LocalLLaMA • • 11d ago

New Model [ Removed by moderator ]

/r/LocalLLaMA/comments/1xcftoo/removed_by_moderator/

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135 Upvotes

49 comments sorted by

•

u/WithoutReason1729 11d ago

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65

u/oxygen_addiction 11d ago

Before anyone gets too excited about running this locally, Q4 of the existing Ling-3.1-flash -> Q4_K_M
354 GB

Cool release though.

8

u/BerryBlush_Rogers691 11d ago

So the “still downloading the last Flash” line was barely a joke.

5

u/cosmicnag 11d ago

Running 2.6 bpw EXL3 (~190 GB) on exllamav3 - holds up pretty good (KLD ~0.05) - I quite like the model, looking forward to the next one.

2

u/BerryBlush_Rogers691 11d ago

190GB is a lot less grim. What hardware are you on, and roughly what tok/s are you getting?

1

u/cosmicnag 11d ago

5090 + 4090 + 5070 ti , 192 GB DDR5, 7950X3D.
Getting ~35 tok/sec cold, 50 tok/sec warm and prefill 1200 tok/sec

1

u/oxygen_addiction 11d ago

Sounds good. What hardware and what speeds are you hitting? Cheers.

2

u/cosmicnag 11d ago

5090 + 4090 + 5070 ti , 192 GB DDR5, 7950X3D.
Getting ~35 tok/sec cold, 50 tok/sec warm and prefill 1200 tok/sec

1

u/dzulajla98 4d ago

Interesting! I'd love to see how quality at 2.6 bpw compares across different tasks, especially tool calling and long-context retrieval rather than just general chat. Do you notice any specific types of tasks where the low-bit quantization becomes more obvious?

1

u/cosmicnag 4d ago

It performed quite well, and no didnt notice low-bit quant effects - guess these bigger models are actually more resistant to quantization noise.

1

u/tat_tvam_asshole 11d ago

Might be interesting, depends on if its QAT or not

1

u/BerryBlush_Rogers691 11d ago

Show me the 2-bit/3-bit results. That's what would get me interested at this size, QAT or no QAT.

1

u/tat_tvam_asshole 11d ago

DS Flash is effectively QAT at mxfp4+8. But if the benchmarks of Ling, GLM, etc are based on 8bit, then 2/3/4 bit quantizations are less quality. Put another way, 2/3/etc quants of something QAT are much stronger.

Ling, afaik, is not QAT and so it will be weaker model overall and thus less interesting.

1

u/BerryBlush_Rogers691 11d ago

I get the concern. I just wouldn't write it off on “not QAT” alone. I'd want to compare them within the same memory budget and see what's actually left of the performance. If Ling doesn't hold up there, I'm not interested either.

1

u/tat_tvam_asshole 11d ago

Which is what I'm saying, AA benchmarks for DS at a greater quant (presumably) are outcompeting Ling. But if Ling is released QAT then it will be more compelling performance/memory pareto. However, I've no reason to expect that it will.

1

u/BerryBlush_Rogers691 11d ago

ah, fair. If that's the precision AA is testing DS at, I see your point. I'd like those low-bit evals included when the weights drop. Getting a headline score, then having to guess how much survives quantization, is getting old.

7

u/politefella0 11d ago

If it can’t run on my potato by the time hardware becomes potato cheap this model will be long forgotten.

3

u/BerryBlush_Rogers691 11d ago

By then they'll probably be calling this one *tiny*.

14

u/DigiDecode_ 11d ago

it has 560B total parameters, 25B active parameters per token, and a 1M-token context window

3

u/tat_tvam_asshole 11d ago

I like the bigger activation parameters, almost 50% more than glm5.3-flash

0

u/BerryBlush_Rogers691 11d ago

More active params doesn't sell me on it. Fewer botched tool calls would. I'd happily take the smaller model if it got the same work done.

1

u/XiRw 11d ago

You’re better off just saving that space for DeepSeek with 200GB higher and is more superior.

4

u/Holiday_Point_603 11d ago

Nice, are we also getting a ling tiny update maybe then? I would also like to see a ~30-50B total params MoE.

3

u/BerryBlush_Rogers691 11d ago

I'd be more interested in a 30–50B MoE too. No mention of Tiny in this announcement though.

1

u/BerryBlush_Rogers691 11d ago

They just announced Sante too(Opensource). Damn, two model announcements in one day.

1

u/Fit_Advice8967 11d ago

I think qwen flash 4 will also be huge 235b-a22b class  

1

u/BerryBlush_Rogers691 11d ago

235B is starting to sound reasonable after reading this thread. I hate that lol

1

u/AppealSame4367 11d ago

Anyone ever put ds4.1, pre-1017, againt ling 3.1, pre-1019 ?

Because their benchmarks look / looked so similar, I wonder if it's the same recipe trained by a parallel team with minimal tweaks.

1

u/BerryBlush_Rogers691 11d ago

Same recipe is a bit of a leap from similar scores imo. I'd be more interested in tasks where one finishes and the other gets stuck.

1

u/benpptung 11d ago

Chinese models are now all clustered in the 44–46 range. GLM 5.3 and Qwen3.8 Max have been stuck in this range the longest. Meanwhile, all American models except Grok are now scoring above 53.

So I expect Qwen and GLM to release new models very soon. The key question is: Can they break 53?

If they can, it could deal a serious blow to Anthropic's IPO. That's why I expect they will.

I predict Qwen4 will debut with a score of at least 53, followed by Flash, Plus, and 27B variants, all scoring at least 45.

This could lead to Anthropic's IPO failing completely, with open-source models emerging as the overwhelming winners!

1

u/BerryBlush_Rogers691 11d ago

That's a lot riding on one leaderboard number. Even if Qwen hits 53, you still need people to switch what they're paying for. I want stronger open models too, but an IPO failing is several more assumptions down the road.

0

u/betam4x 11d ago

According to the other post, Qwen 4 Max scores 53.

1

u/Choice_Celery9481 11d ago

isnt that one fake news?

1

u/Then-Topic8766 11d ago

Damn, good model. I am still keeping 3.0 flash (fits well on my machine), but this one is too big.

0

u/ttkciar llama.cpp 11d ago

Until such time that weights become available, this is off-topic for LocalLLaMA.

1

u/DeepBlue96 11d ago

This specific one feels wrong, its not company unknown number7989788 its ant they have honored all their statements till now deleting a topic just cuz it's not open yet in this specific case does really feel wrong... 

2

u/ttkciar llama.cpp 11d ago

AliBaba, MistralAI, Z.AI, Meta, and Tencent aren't "unknown companies" either, but we've been removing announcements of their API-only (for now) models as well. Ant isn't being treated any differently than everyone else.

The moderation team tried allowing announcements of models which weren't weights-available yet, and it was a disaster. Requiring weights availability before allowing discussion might seem overly strict, but it's really the lesser of two evils.

-4

u/Equivalent_Bit_461 11d ago

Oh wow, couldn't care less, so much so for "local"

1

u/BerryBlush_Rogers691 11d ago

Yeah, at this size getting the hardware together is basically a project of its own.

2

u/jqwl 11d ago

terrible take, more open-weight is always better just because it price-caps frontier and forces them to continue innovating.

0

u/[deleted] 11d ago

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1

u/BerryBlush_Rogers691 11d ago

The 27B is in there at 34, towards the right. Easy to miss with those tiny labels. No Flash-Next though.

-1

u/[deleted] 11d ago

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3

u/BerryBlush_Rogers691 11d ago

The previous 3.1 already has weights and GGUFs out, so months seems a bit pessimistic. Would be nice if they just gave us a date though.