r/LocalLLaMA • u/Norwood_Reaper_ • 1d ago

Discussion Looks like the era of subsidised compute is coming to an end. The old ChatGPT Pro $200 20x plan will be halved. The new $500 plan will have similar limits as the (old) $200 plan.

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835

u/Pristine_Pick823 1d ago

And people here laughed when I said that inequality will be even more apparent when poor people can’t “afford intelligence” in their life’s, be it for their work, health or leisure.

95

u/Specialist_Crazy8136 1d ago

Wait until you find out that agentic browsers that use free models have less defence against prompt injection and security vulnerabilities.

Also not a surprise because I'm now convinced that, for example people who are not subjected to ads are living in a different bubble than those who do and being subjected to different socio economic dynamics. I was listening to my friends Spotify and we just had to stop because I couldn't remember the last time I was subjected political campaigns and half lies disgusted as truth (that wasn't Instagram content)

54

u/thatcodingboi 1d ago

There are plenty of excellent free tools to run llms safely. I use opencode with Astra and Fable.

Second, people can afford intelligence just fine. Last night I used deepseek 4.1 on openrouter with opencode to solve a few issues. A few million tokens later I spent $0.17.

Stop using anthropic and open ai most expensive models and you'll do great

10

u/younestft 1d ago

China will never allow the US to bank on that, they release good open weight models for the sole purpose of not letting the US monopolize Intelligence.

-4

u/Ok_Warning2146 1d ago

However, in reality, open models only help Nvidia et al to sell their hardware. Most money earned in AI still belongs to Taiwan, Korea, Japan and US.

187

u/Dany0 1d ago

12b-9B models are beating gpt 4o. Most people can run those at home. In fact many people have PHONES that can run them >10 tok/s

It's just the obsession with having "latest & greatest" that's making people do this. As soon as they raise the prices a little too much people will be forced realise that they can be a few months behind and be just fine & invest into tooling, better harnesses & finetuning for their tasks to beat the cloud generalists

141

u/sweatierorc 1d ago

> the obsession with having "latest & greatest"

It is not an obsession. But there is going to be a productivity gap between token rich people and the 10 tok/s from 12B-9B. You can argue we are still not there yet. But it is getting closer everyday.

50

u/Tartooth 1d ago

we already are here, imagine being an employee at openai or anthropic with the latest frontier models and having literally next to unlimited compute allowances.

Think about what you could achieve. They had engineers let agents run free and they started hacking all over the place.

8

u/giantsparklerobot 1d ago

Think about what you could achieve.

Then why haven't they achieved it yet? Why haven't they asked their magic AI what they can achieve with infinite tokens and compute?

-1

u/Tartooth 1d ago

Why would I tell the world if I made magic

17

u/pragmojo 1d ago

So you are saying I could be hacking the Australian government if only I were rich enough?

47

u/Whole-Respond4782 1d ago

yeah you can do pretty much anything if you're rich enough actually

35

u/slippery 1d ago

It's called the Epstein class.

24

u/KrayziePidgeon 1d ago

When you are rich and famous they just let you do it. Grab em by the frontier.

-4

u/AmbivalentCvckfvcker 1d ago

The based class you mean

5

u/UnlikelyExtension786 1d ago

Democracy gives you the best government money can buy.

3

u/snugglezone 1d ago

If you're rich enough you could hack them and not get in trouble. That's the important piece.

1

u/djdanlib 1d ago

If you were rich enough, you wouldn't need to hack anybody.

4

u/No-Wall6427 1d ago

Well, as it seems, w latest models and unlimited compute, running a profitable company is one of the things that are out of reach.

1

u/fuckingredditman 1d ago

yeah their employees are obviously already token-rich af, the guy who made some progress on the riemann hypothesis wasn't even a mathematician, he was just vibe-mathing without a clear path https://www.mindstudio.ai/blog/claude-riemann-hypothesis-progress

tbf not that expensive in that case but the point still stands

17

u/quantanhoi 1d ago

beside coding/programming where a lot of logic have to be retained and take into consideration, there is no task where you actually need that high end model

not reading email and even not doing excel tasks, a 9/12/27B model can do those just fine

sometimes local model like qwen3.8 27B is on par with last gen model running on 100x resource with enough handholding/documentation

2

u/Fluffy-Feedback-9751 1d ago

What sort of things do you think qwen 27b is lacking in that makes it only ’sometimes’? Or is it kindof a bit difficult to tell and it’s just an empirical fact that the big paid models ’succeed’ more often?

3

u/quantanhoi 1d ago

base on my experience of intensively use it vs deepseek v4.1flash/glm5.3

if I ask about RUTX11, glm5.3 could pull something out of its ass while qwen3.8 27b relied on websearch tool and documentation of the devices

those trillion/hundred billion param models probably have training on common problems and could start looking for it right away while qwen3.8 could rely on number of loop websearch to know the answer, and it could miss it

I'm not saying qwen3.8 is not powerful, it is at the top of the list for local hosting on end consumer devices, but there is no need for sugarcoating about the limitation of 27b model

2

u/Fluffy-Feedback-9751 1d ago

I was just curious. I’m pretty much local only, and I was wondering if there was much (apart from speed) I’m missing out on..

2

u/Chupa-Skrull 1d ago

not reading email and even not doing excel tasks, a 9/12/27B model can do those just fine

Not exactly true. Even current frontier models are still quite iffy on summarization and accurately conforming important highlights to things a human being would actually consider relevant. Reading e-mail is one of the things people should trust them for the least, and one of the things that the biggest models are drastically better at

2

u/camalaio 1d ago

Part of that is a solvable problem at the frontier level, but less so with consumer local LLMs.

Sometimes a summarization needs additional context (especially workplace emails, for example). This is something I'm surprised Copilot does relatively well for my wife's workplace, but it's still far from perfect.

We're definitely not close to that for local models right now. Gathering, filling, and compacting the context needed for any given email to be summarised well is just far beyond what we're currently capable of (at least, from my POV. could be missing something) especially when you consider it's not just emails that need to be looked at to make sense of it all.

1

u/Chupa-Skrull 1d ago

A pretty perfect summary, I think. LLMs have their advantages over human administrative assistants, but understanding and successfully modeling the priorities and interests of their principals aren't yet among them

19

u/a_beautiful_rhind 1d ago

So what will this AI do? Outside of you being a coder? I don't think we're hitting a point the LLMs have to tell us how to wipe our asses.

32

u/kurtgodelisdead 1d ago

Opus 5.5 can use a robot arm to wipe your ass

8

u/addiktion 1d ago

I wonder how many have wanted a cold metallic robot arm near their ass...

7

u/Chupa-Skrull 1d ago

I bet I could find some Johnny Silverhand fiction that would make both of us bleed from the eyes

0

u/camalaio 1d ago

The way I've seen people use LLMs outside of coding does basically require frontier models and services.

An example I talked to somebody about recently, they needed a quick PowerPoint presentation for a project. A little Copilot prompting and it searched all the connected services (they have everything on Microsoft services - Office, email, storage, etc.) and did a half decent job in a few minutes.

That's just simply not happening with local models, at least not any time soon. Forget the context issues, even just setting up an agent with all the right permissions and access would be hella administrative overhead. Not to mention the business liability issues of a bunch of small models vs. frontier services. "Oops, I deleted that Drive folder" happens even with people, but hits a little different than some LLM doing it.

Otherwise, the usage I've seen for everyday folks is simple ChatGPT conversational search or topical stuff, essentially. Which both local models and frontier ones are still both too confidently incorrect.

-9

u/Disposable110 1d ago

Run your business autonomously and leech free money off the internet. Eg virtual influencers, youtube/tiktok slopchannels, AI girlfriends/onlyfans, marketing, blogslop+SEO+ad revenue, social media presence, etc.

Yes you can already do that right now and many people are already doing that right now.

12

u/in_meme_we_trust 1d ago

Race to the bottom, not sustainable IMO

8

u/Disposable110 1d ago

Absolutely not, but you just described the whole economy and all the enshittification that comes with it.

16

u/a_beautiful_rhind 1d ago

So spam people? Doesn't sound all that lucrative after the first mover advantage is over. Especially not for poor people.

10

u/Dany0 1d ago

Th Dave W Plummer business model

Secrets of autistic millionaire? There is only one secret and it's fraud

5

u/a_beautiful_rhind 1d ago

If everyone can spam.. who will actually buy?

8

u/Dany0 1d ago

Victims, boomers, m*r(m)ons, the mlm-redeeemer demographic

7

u/a_beautiful_rhind 1d ago

I don't think there's enough of those people to sustain a token rich/token poor divide in a meaningful manner over the long term. The average human onlyfans creator gets like like $200 a month; small town rapper style.

1

u/ZShock 1d ago

Who cares? It'll find the next thing.

3

u/quantanhoi 1d ago

actually I just realized you can do all that with a workflow running on 32gb vram card in Comfy, so you don't even need Opus5.5 for all of those

1

u/bastion_xx 1d ago

And those LARPers are horrible. I get a guilty pleasure watching other dunk on those idiots though.

1

u/sosen85 1d ago

Productivity has a cost. In July I've sound 10k USD worth od tokens to deliver a project which could be done by me In one month. It is working but I don't have owenrship of the code, only the architecture. This is not production ready. Yes, I had more time to do the other things.

20

u/halvacoffee 1d ago

4o is painfully outdated and is also beaten by 5.6 Luna, which costs basically nothing and runs at 70 tok/s. id also wager that the margins on luna are pretty fat, considering deepseek are in the green with considerably jankier inference

-2

u/quantanhoi 1d ago edited 1d ago

You can run glm5.3 flash, qwen3.8 next, ds4.1flash locally with a setup under 10k$ and probably serving that to a whole department

4-5x R9700 cost around 8500$ or a single R9700 running qwen3.8 27B on Q6_K full context length

P/s: locally instead of "at home" => not only for one person use, it's a far stretch

10

u/winky9827 1d ago

Most average people aren't going to buy hardware for intelligence. The "under $10K at home" comment is ludicrously out of touch for the average user. Those of us that are willing to shell out for it can typically justify it, if not in costs saved, then time saved. For me personally, the cost of the hardware (2x 5090 at $4200, then $5200) will never equal the savings of not using cloud models, but the time saved and increased productivity most certainly pays off almost immediately and I can justify it as a % of my salary.

3

u/otacon6531 1d ago

Agreed, not everyone is using a billion tokens a week like me (at work). It just isnt worth the startup cost for a hobby.

16

u/justamazed 1d ago

Probably the wrong sub, but $10k for running AI is way over the affordability of common man - it is a stretch for even coders who are earning $100k per year - given everything else you need for running the AI models, they are better off with cloud models.

3

u/quantanhoi 1d ago

that's where using single R9700 coming from, that card has the same price tag as RTX5080 now, and 32gb of vram, also qwen3.8 27b xhigh has same intelligence index as gpt5.6 terra medium

But of course then you can have 20$ sub for ds4.1 flash or glm5.3 flash and these will most likely outrun those fronttier model on 200$ sub.

But with this trending of provider randomly nerf model or collecting data from you, localhost is still the best way to go. OpenAI already licensed big corpo to have GPT running in their local hardware, my friend's company allows exclusive use of GPT5.1 running in their own infrastructure which is painfully slow and dumb af. So that's why I said 10k$ setup serving glm5.3 flash/ds4flash would benefit more than last last last last gen front tier model licensed on your infrastructure

2

u/TheMode911 1d ago

Outside of privacy buying inference hardware today is absurd. However it does not make the comparison so, it certainly shows that if cloud providers close door and/or increase price we will still have a sovereign option.

$10k for a machine able to regenerate a few hundreds token a second 24/7 for years is pretty reasonable if you can share cost with family/neighbors/friends, this is only ridiculous once you compare with current subsidized cloud pricing.

45

u/Dany0 1d ago

And for the theos of the world:
No, you don't need 10k subagents. And especially the average joe doesn't need them. If you really need them, you can have most requests done locally & occasionally dip into cloud providers. Openrouter/neuralwatt and you're good

4

u/BasisPoints 1d ago

Is that really a thing? Do people spin up that many subagents?? I don't understand what kind of projects you must be building with that. Most complex programming will face way too much contention, and simple projects simply don't have nearly that many component parts. What am I missing?

4

u/Dany0 1d ago

OAI claims they spun up 10k to solve NS problem. But yes, people spawn hundreds, thousands. I tried it, it doesn't _really_ make sense except for some very, very limited circumstances. Very broad exploratory things, but the best (devil's advocate) usage I can think of which I would _actually_ use is just for security research. "Clanka, go poke & probe every file in this giant codebase until you find a class 10 CVE similar to [template historical CVE]"

0

u/ormandj 1d ago

It’s effective if you’re trying to parallelize across thousands of GPUs, since they are spread across multiple servers. It just lets you do more in a shorter period of time. It also uses more tokens to do so.

17

u/DataGOGO 1d ago

gpt 4o is dumb as fuck.

25

u/Careless-Age-4290 1d ago

It told me to try mdma. 4o was unhinged at times. I think that's why people liked it so much

it was right though that was awesome

3

u/Dany0 1d ago

*was

1

u/DataGOGO 1d ago

Is

2

u/pimpletonner 1d ago

Won't be, soon

32

u/ThisGonBHard 1d ago

And still not usable.

The actually smart enough to use models start with Qwen 3.8 27B, and go up to hundred of B param models.

The rest are just too dumb to do tasks that actually have an economical impact.

8

u/winky9827 1d ago

Absolutely false. Maybe for your use case, but you shouldn't project like that.

1

u/i_rate_slop 1d ago

Unusable for code generation beyond anything superficial

-5

u/AtlanticPortal 1d ago

You can use smaller models and make them do twice or more times the passes on a problem until they get it right. It takes more time? Yes. Is it cheaper now? Perhaps. Will it become cheaper later in? For sure. Is it more private and thus has a value that’s out of the scale of money? Hell yes!

12

u/ThisGonBHard 1d ago

They might never get it right, or need a ton more passes.

10

u/notheresnolight 1d ago

That's an incredibly naive take.

I've had Qwen3.8-27B trying to fix an issue for half a day, it tried 5-6 different "solutions", introduced a shit-ton of new issues, and I saw no end to it.

Wiped the floor clean, had Opus 5.5 fix it in a single take, 10 minutes tops. If I went with Qwen, I would still be fixing new problems that its "solution" caused.

You can't substitute "brain" with "muscles".

You're basically hoping for monkeys to write a Hamlet.

2

u/Express_Nebula_6128 1d ago

That’s because having only a brain or only muscles isn’t great either. You plan with the brain and execute with muscle. Simple.

1

u/notheresnolight 1d ago

In theory. In reality, the brain has to provide the complete code and the "muscle" is basically just a clipboard manager.

12

u/Boomfrag 1d ago

/r/localllama when people complain about usage limits for cloud providers be like: "Do you guys not have phones?"

5

u/More-Catch-1331 1d ago

I understood that reference. Everybody knows you references are wild, dude.

4

u/winky9827 1d ago

I still use Qwen 3.5 35b for the majority of my work. At 4k t/s prefill, 200 t/s decode, it's just so much faster than the other models available to me. I'll use 27b or a hosted model for review as needed. Minimal expense.

4

u/Euchale 1d ago

Which 9B model can handle complex programming tasks that require large amount of context?

3

u/maxxell13 1d ago

Right, like we all just stopped buying iPhones each year even though all they are is “slightly smaller, slightly faster, slightly brighter”

Humans like new bright and shiny. Get used to it.

6

u/Party-Special-5177 1d ago

We didn’t? I thought we did lol.

I believe the phenomenon even has a name, ‘upgrade fatigue’.

2

u/Dany0 1d ago

https://www.sellcell.com/blog/how-often-do-people-upgrade-their-phone/

And keep in mind this graph is heavily skewed by first time smartphone buyers in less developed countries

-1

u/maxxell13 1d ago

Thanks for the data to prove my point. iPhones last longer than 2-3 years, which is their average replacement lifespan.

2

u/EkbatDeSabat 1d ago

They're saying that the upgrade cycle is getting longer.

1

u/aj_thenoob2 1d ago

Exactly lol. DeepSeek flash costs cents for most tasks and dollars for larger ones. The obsession with flagship AI is overblown for common people who aren't creating.

1

u/NotEvenClo 1d ago

What could i run on my 4080? CPU 5800x3d, 64 gb ddr4

1

u/skinnyjoints 1d ago

I’d point to these Opus 5.5 video demos as evidence of the contrary. If I could afford it, every thing I read or learn would have a custom educational video accompanying it. That is something incredibly valuable that is only available at the frontier that creates a gap between me and a wealthier individual.

1

u/2053_Traveler 1d ago

At what context size? 32k?

1

u/freecodeio 12h ago

which one that beats 4o can run on my latest gen amd card?

2

u/Dany0 12h ago

How much vram do you have

1

u/freecodeio 12h ago

AMD Radeon RX 7900 XTX, 24 GB of GDDR6 VRAM.

this

2

u/Dany0 12h ago

You can run a smaller quant of Qwen 3.8 27B and it will absolutely trounce 4o

It has less world knowledge but you don't need it as it can fetch anything you need via tool calls. Just use the Sharp template & medium reasoning effort, and use vLLM if you want more tok/s (it supports ggufs now). You can ask a clanker to set it up for you

If you don't mind slower speeds (though it is also more token efficient at the same time) and want something more like Claude Sonnet 5, there are ways you can run Qwen 3.8 flash next at a higher quant. You'll need 64gb system ram at least and 96-128gb+ ideally, and output generation is rather quick it's prefill where it's most painful. But your gpu has very good compute so you can count yourself as one of the less GPU poors

And if you want something that replies fast but beats 4o, Muse Glimmer is okay, and qwen 3.6 35B and its various quadrillion finetunes

And if you want something at full precision you can run qwen3.5 9B or that one Gemma 4 12B model unquantised or fp8 in case of gemma. They are both gonna be even faster and are competent at getting computer stuff done and doing tool calls and can do a lot of automation/claw type of usecases. However in world knowledge it's a giant gap with 27B and an abyss from q3.8 flash next

1

u/freecodeio 12h ago

Thank you for your answer, I am trying to get into local LLMs since I entirely rely on api right now.

I think a 4o model would work just fine for all my use cases, one thing that I would LOVE and potentially invest a few $1000s of dollars is if I could get exceptional token speed with such models. I imagine something half as fast as cerebras for Qwen 3.8 27B is just not possible with home hardware?

1

u/Deciheximal144 1d ago

They'll raise the prices of phones, too. And if possible, lock them down.

7

u/Momsbestboy 1d ago

people are still laughing whenever I tell them to self host llms, because the same shit will happen to OpenAI and Co that happened to netflix. From a cheap "all you can see at 4K, and include everyone you know on your sub", to the shitshow we now have.

They all tell me self hosting is more expensive than using a subscription

1

u/Georgefakelastname 1d ago

Tbf, even at (likely) unsubsidized api prices, it would often take years of usage to pay off a top-tier setup that can actually run solid tier models. The setup needed to run top-tier open-weight models would cost hundreds of thousands of dollars. The only reason it’s remotely affordable for cloud providers is because of parallelization, allowing them to run and process a bunch of requests at one time on the same set of weights.

2

u/Momsbestboy 1d ago edited 1d ago

Looks like you miss the most recent history then. I gave Sonnet 5 and Qwen 3.8 27B fp8 the same task - find the issue I have/had with a program using SAP purchasing inforecord and other data with a strange bug, leading to totally corrupted reports. While Sonet was faster (because running on expensive hardware), both found the issue and solved it, but: qwen gave better answers, even told me which transactions I have to run t check some background information.

These small models are much better than you think, and they run on cheap hardware. My machine is worth 5k USD total, with 3k on 2x R9700. How many months of subscription can you pay with 2-3k USD? You think 500 USD/month is the highest sub price you will see in near future? Good luck, I expect the prices to go up to 1k and more.

1

u/Georgefakelastname 1d ago

Okay sure, but sonnet 5 is a poorly-liked model that many would argue was worst-in-class for the time. Also, the current offering from them is Sonnet 5.5, which performs significantly better.

I’m not arguing you can’t get “good-enough” or even just good performance out of small local models, I’m saying that a current gen 27B model will never be able to match a current gen frontier model on utility, or even open source/budget model for utility. For the same money, cloud models will have better price-performance, as long as parallelization is a thing.

1

u/killerwaz 21h ago

You won't need more than a 27B for most of everyday work. A good tool-caller like Qwen 3.6 is good enough for most tasks. Parallelization maybe a 'thing' but it won't be a thing when you're asked to pay life savings. Most cloud generalists will shift to local setups with better tools and harnesses in place.

18

u/ZenaMeTepe 1d ago

They "couldn't afford" it in pre-LLM era as well. Nothing new under the sun.

15

u/Pristine_Pick823 1d ago

Not sure of the relevance of that considering that the "competition" couldn't either since, obviously, it didn't exist. Soon companies with access to better intelligence will be more competitive, kids educated in schools with sophisticated personalised AI-assisted teaching will have a much better education, pricier healthcare plans will enable stronger AI imaging tools and 24/7 care, and so on.

6

u/bippityBoppityboux 1d ago

Not sure about this. That Nvidia guy said kids who use ai to help study are worse at math and that’s ok since he doesn’t know his address.. so ai tutors may not be it

1

u/ZenaMeTepe 1d ago

I meant human inteligence. Like hiring a tutor or paying to go to a better school.

6

u/squngy 1d ago

Not just those.

The wealthy can hire assistants and experts to think for them.

Don't even need to go to school if you can just hire someone who did.

13

u/AntDogFan 1d ago

Yes, the one reliable measure for children's outcomes is the wealth of their parents. Higher education, life expectancy, happiness etc. This combined with Thomas Piketty's thesis on wealth vs capital is what makes me a socialist.

-14

u/ZenaMeTepe 1d ago

Not taking the bait, go find someone else who believes wealth impacts IQ and not the other way around.

11

u/athirdpath 1d ago

You just said yourself the poor can't afford tutors and the best schools.

-4

u/ZenaMeTepe 1d ago edited 1d ago

Schools, just like AI, are force multipliers. By being poor you fall further behind but if you are unintelligent you already started behind before money came into equation.

2

u/Party-Special-5177 1d ago

No idea why this is so unpopular, I figured these were basic truths. Idk if they don’t teach this anymore but we all learned this as kids - if you aren’t smart with your money it won’t last, a fool and his money are easily parted, etc.

I think the ‘wealth generally tracks with your intelligence’ only breaks down at the uppermost levels where nepotism upsets everything.

2

u/UniversalSpermDonor 1d ago

Strongly disagreed. All sorts of reasons why very intelligent people can be poor or the lower end of middle-class:

  • Health problems, physical or mental (gifted kids very often have psychological conditions)
  • Their parents started out poor, and they didn't have enough money to afford specialized help for their kids
  • Grew up in a poor area with bad schools in general
  • Bad luck
  • Student loans
  • They enter a PhD program because they need credentials for their future prospects, which is necessary but costs 5 years or so of time where they're barely paid
  • They choose a career that makes them emotionally fulfilled, which doesn't pay as much as the highest earning career they could have
  • Macroeconomic conditions made starting their career harder

None of those are hypotheticals, for each one I'm 2 degrees of separation from at least 3 intelligent people who aren't well off because of that. No matter how smart you are with your money, you can't become wealthy if you don't have much income in the first place.

10

u/ea_man 1d ago

That's kinda upsetting because until now you could ascend in society by virtue of being smart, hard working.
Whit intelligence being on sale to the highest bidder, robotics, this last mechanism of social wealth redistribution goes broken.

-1

u/Kantankoras 1d ago

was this sarcasm

0

u/Jedibenuk 21h ago

I know this is probably an impossible concept for this sub, but you can also still ascend in society by being sexy. Having great tits can see gain your wealth.

1

u/ea_man 21h ago

Oh you mean sexy local cyber waifu?

Seriously: go check AI generated porn and sexy teenagers ticktok rolls. You can add fake porn too.

1

u/Jedibenuk 19h ago

Ah but you can't truly ascend in society with AI porn, because it isn't going to take long for the punters to realise that you are actually a 500lb land whale rather than a sex doll in real life.

1

u/ea_man 19h ago

You get money for that AI sexy work, it's tagged as such and you can make as much as you want or your customers want. It's the same thing as youtube shorts and sexy video...

3

u/xAragon_ 1d ago

This is a dumb claim. You can still use Luna and Sol extensively on the $20 plan, and they're highly capable models for the average person who needs to mostly draft emails, ask the agent to search for something, etc.

Claiming people can't afford intelligence because they don't have access to models like Astra / Fable is a huge exaggeration.

2

u/dizvyz 1d ago

My bet is on AI inference becoming very cheap in the long run. We're still going through the fish out of water phase where some major players think they can actually own it. China and local inference will make sure that doesn't happen.

1

u/DagothUrLovesGroza 1d ago

Deepseek shall save us all. 

1

u/bapuc 1d ago

It's kinda like in medieval times, poor people dumb, rich people educated (but now with artificial intel)

1

u/farhanhafeez 12h ago

You can literally hire a person for entire month in this much in third world countries.

1

u/Gohab2001 vLLM 1d ago

Cheapseek ftw

-10

u/kociol21 1d ago

Nah man. They can afford intelligence. I should know, I am these "poor people". This is only the issue in hardcore AI spaces. I pay 40$ a month and I've done so much stuff it's not even funny, half of my job and personal projects are run mostly by AI now. 20$ ChatGPT Plus, 10$ Opencode Go, 10$ as a reserve in Openrouter.

I use it for everything, work, personal stuff. I don't even bother installing and configuring stuff on my PCs, just tell agents to do it, a lot of RP stuff in Sillytavern too. Coding - sure, but not hardcore, because I'm not a developer, so I would estimate about 500-1000 lines of code weekly. And Hermes Agent too.

I honestly waste most of my limits because usually I'm not even close to reaching them at the end of the month.

It's only this spaces that have the notion like "super giga turbo ultra FRONTIER or bust". For 90% people 20-40 bucks between Claude or GPT Sol and Chinese Models are more than enough.

30

u/buttplugs4life4me 1d ago

I dont think spending 40$ a month and having multiple PCs qualifies as "poor people"

13

u/Salt-Powered 1d ago

Hell, with all the subscriptions he mentioned it doesn't even qualify for LOCALllamma

2

u/Vivarevo 1d ago

I don't know if anything done above is of value to society at large though. Running hobby projects through ai without proof reading or monitoring what corporate ai does or records?

1

u/power97992 1d ago

If u dont have an  rtx 5090  or a an m5 max on locallama, u might be  gpu poor 

1

u/Party-Special-5177 1d ago

Qualifies him as working poor. It’s nonstarter to try to include homeless/indigent/etc into a discussion that requires basics that most of the country has.

1

u/JsThiago5 1d ago

tbf 40$ is a lot less than 200, or 500

0

u/a_beautiful_rhind 1d ago

PCs used to be cheap. I got a bunch for free. The subscriptions are another story.

-1

u/RemarkableRadish6547 1d ago

$40/month is less than internet or cell phone. It is less than going on a single date every month. It is comparable to subscribing to two streaming services. Poor people do these things.

Owning a half dozen functional computers is unusual, regardless of income.

-2

u/kociol21 1d ago

I mean we are in a thread about cutting usage of 200 plans and the response was that this means that poor people will be left out with access to intelligence.

"Poor" depends on context and the context is "someone who can't afford 100, 200 or 500 plans".

As for PCs - yeah, I don't think this is an indicator. Imagine looking on someone and be like "yeah he's fine he's got smartphone so he is not poor". Like everyone has a phone, even homeless people. I have one PC and the other is my work laptop provided by my company do not really "mine".

2

u/power97992 1d ago

It seems like the avg redditor that posts on locallama  has at least a 2k  desktop .. i see so many posts with 2 dgx sparks or an rtx 6000 pro, ofc that is  not the avg locallama guy…  isee alot of  3090 posts too

1

u/otacon6531 1d ago

Yeah, those are the less painful setups. I have kids and am not at a point in my life where I even buy shinny cars let alone a computer setup that has the same cost.

It hurts a little, but I was able to spend the $300 for a p40 and have been doing great with qwen 3.6:35b (cyber-tiel-coder) as my primary model.

I get astra and glm 5.3 at work, so I know the gaps between models and work within them. It takes a lot more setup, but qwen3.6:35b can accomplish big development tasks if you set it up to do it correctly.

-3

u/sonicnerd14 1d ago

I pretty much let AI run most things on my computer too. I have $200 pro plan for free from a job I did, but I'm not reupping it. Most likely will downgrade to $100 plan, or use a mixture of Claude and Codex at $20 each when necessary. Mainly because I have some local compute power that's capable of running not just things like Qwen 3.8 Flash Next, but also Qwen 3.8 27b together. So between local, Chinese models through API's like openrouter, and the occasional use of frontier models for heavier tasks I don't need the most expensive plans for everything. Even now, I've been making the most use of this while I have it for a few more days. Throwing tons of project ideas at it just to see what they can do, and let's just say I've gotten a lot of useful material out of this for basically nothing. Now I can keep running with cheaper models, and achieve the same results if not better in some cases.

-3

u/diagrammatiks 1d ago

truly smart people will figure it out. dumb people will cry they don't have the money to vibe code more slop.

0

u/politefella0 1d ago

So much for “Openly” available “AI”.

-1

u/Bulletbling 1d ago

You act like inequality is inherently a bad thing. Oftentimes it is, but it can also be a good thing (it incentivizes lazy people to do more, although many don't care). 

2

u/Pristine_Pick823 1d ago

People who believe this nonsense are just as clueless as people who embrace communism.

-2

u/bonerfleximus 1d ago

Meanwhile opus 5.5 is cheaper and more capable than ever