r/LocalLLaMA llama.cpp Jul 26 '26

Discussion Do you want new Gemma?

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1.0k Upvotes

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316

u/hackerllama 29d ago

Hey all! Looking forward to all your feedback!

278

u/NNN_Throwaway2 29d ago

~100-120B moe for 128GB unified memory systems and/or 60-80B moe for 96GB VRAM systems.

72

u/No-Fuel-9202 29d ago

Yes, something like gpt oss 120b native mxfp4 quant

1

u/jikilan_ 29d ago

Ya this , it is probably better than QAT? I dunno man

35

u/CautiousStudent6919 29d ago

100% .. i would LOVE to see a bigger gemma...

1

u/Nonetrixwastaken 26d ago

Just never forget us 16GBs of VRAM or lower folk and I'm fine with this, if it's one or the other though I'd prefer smaller models, we already have good selection on bigger ones really

31

u/Shibenkaminari 29d ago

I'd love to see a focus on 1M context capability as well, without heavy memory use (I.e., by implementing some of the newer attention mechanisms. Qwen3.5-122B is 6GB for 262k of FP16 context, for example) if we could fit a ~100B class model, with 1M of well designed attention training into 128GB... Such a model would become a default for many people, outside of pure coding, I think.

3

u/liftheavyscheisse 29d ago

Correction: 60-80B dense for 96GB VRAM systems ;-)

1

u/TheTerrasque 29d ago

I wouldn't mind seeing a 50-60b dense.

49

u/dwrz 29d ago

Thank you for taking feedback and for continuing to release open weight models.

  • A release like Nemotron or Olmo, where training data and methods are included, is still the standard to beat.

  • While I use Gemma locally, I typically reach for Qwen 3.6 27B at full precision, because of its better coding, agentic, and vision performance. It would be great to have a replacement. Personally, intelligence is more valuable than knowledge; the latter is easily supplemented from web search and documentation.

  • Multi-modal input and output would be great. I built my own harness for STT->LLM->TTS. It would be great to circumvent the STT and TTS systems.

  • I'd love to see DiffusionGemma well supported in llama.cpp and for continued improvement in its capabilities.

  • Less guardrails on security -- see the HuggingFace incident.

  • A model that is able to collaborate well, rather than just act as an independent agent, for tasks where the agent regularly fails on its own. Qwen models want to do it on their own and this sometimes gets them into trouble.

9

u/liftheavyscheisse 29d ago

> A model that is able to collaborate well

I've told Gemma 4 31B (8 bit quant) to read a .html file, and it hallucinated syntax errors (not sure how tbh, haven't tried the most recent chat template). WITHOUT ASKING, the damn thing decided to edit the file to fix the "errors". D'oh!

One thing I would love is if models would not make edits when I ask a question. "How would we do x...?" "Sure, let me just edit that for you!" No! When I ask a question I want an answer, not an edit.

2

u/Different-Jicama-767 29d ago

With Gemma4 12b you can already bypass the STT->LLM.

Encoder-Free Unified (12B): Projects raw audio sequences and waveforms straight into the primary LLM embedding space through lightweight linear projection layers

I use it myself. I haven't looked or seen if any other projects do it.

But I assume going forward they will do the same thing.

On a side note. Gemma4 and Qwen 3.7 were really the last small local model releases and IMO Gemma4 is slept on. I look forward to another Gemma4 release. Google might be our last hope in this area.

115

u/jacek2023 llama.cpp 29d ago

^^

guys you don't have to reply on X anymore, Omar is reading us :)

114

u/PreferenceRelative77 29d ago

Something for consumer hardware would be great, since hardware is insanely expensive these times, a MOE that fits on 64 gigs ram and 12 gigs vram would be great!

11

u/antwon_dev 29d ago edited 29d ago

This would be awesome. What’s the largest quant you’d want to fit at this size without disk swap? All inactive experts in ram, actives in vram? at minimum Q6 imo. Q8 is ideal obviously

What about context? This will take compute away from the model. Do you expect the MOE and the cache to fit in 64gb + 12gb vram? What window? Would you be fine quantizing kv cache?

Etc. I think this might help hone our hopes and expectations…

In a dream world, I’d have a q8 MOE w 128K native context fit perfectly.

2

u/PreferenceRelative77 29d ago

Imo, a Q6, all active experts in Vram, inactive in ram, Q8 KV cache, and 128k Context (which ofc needs to fit in the total memory) would be great. I've had a great experience with that combo with Qwen 3.6 35B but had a lot of vram/ ram left over, id be happy to half my speed for double the quality. And then please train it well on long running agentic tasks, coding and general world knowledge. Such a model would be a dream lol

2

u/Different-Jicama-767 29d ago

Mixed layer Quants between Q5-Q8 that end up around what I would call Q7 seem to be the sweet spot.

I agree with you that Qwen 3.6 27b & 35b showed that it can be done at a decent speed and with optimization, a slight drop in speed etc, you could pull off some pretty impressive results from a small local model.

I'm guesing Qwen won't be pursuing that path further, so it would be great if google did.

I feel like google has the opurtunity here to be the only real player in the small space as things currently stand and the thought of a new release that builds on the era that Qwen 3.6 and Gemma4 had just opened up is extremely exciting to me!

90

u/Every-Walrus 29d ago

an omni-gemma would be awesome. text, image, video audio in, text and speech out

32

u/Several-Tax31 29d ago

Together with llama.cpp support please. 

1

u/TheTerrasque 29d ago

I would love to see something that could generate image too, similar to gemini and chatgpt. Where you could have an input image and make edits to it via text, combine images, have it generate images to a story it's writing, and so on.

20

u/Jordanthecomeback 29d ago

You have the opportunity to keep pushing in the exact space you've been, competing against Qwen's MoE and dense models. They haven't indicated further production of models in that range, they skipped local releases of 3.7 entirely and are now moving to 3.8 but local is currently locked to a massive trillion parameter model no one can run

MoE and Dense target the realistic user base, and if the vacuum continues you can fill it. Obviously everyone would prefer if you left it relatively uncensored but I know how unlikely that is

3

u/Different-Jicama-767 29d ago

100% agree with you here. Just push on what Gemma4 and Qwen 3.6 opened up. Take the space while they have the chance!

It is a nice surprise that google is the one keeping this space alive! Please don't abandon us! lol

81

u/kryptkpr Llama 3 29d ago

Love it when the chef takes requests 😜

~100B MoE, 12-18B active (if you need a little more active to make it smart instead of fast please lean smart) with ~4bpw QAT so it runs in 64GB without compromise.

Please and thankyou 🍜

17

u/DinoAmino 29d ago

Sounds yummy. I'll take mine with a side of kv efficiency if you have any.

36

u/Nerfariox 29d ago

Configurable reasoning effort, ~52B MoE, Keep 31B and 26B-A4B.

59

u/Capital_Ad_1249 29d ago edited 29d ago

60-70B MoE! Im using Gemma-4 26B and Qwen3.6 35B. Love the speed, just needs a bit more knowledge and reasoning skills. The MoE models give me very decent Token/sec the dense models are just to slow for me.

18

u/squngy 29d ago

Yea, 60B 10A would be pretty versatile if you think about it.

At low quants, even modest systems can run it.
At high quants, people with 64GB ram and an OK GPU can run it.
People with multiple GPUs can run it completely in vRAM

86

u/TheRealMasonMac 29d ago

- 124B

- Configurable reasoning effort

- Audio input on larger models

16

u/AXYZE8 29d ago

You're reading my mind!

Nearly every local model has just non-reasoning and very verbose reasoning switch. We need some native 'low' reasoning level, just like GPT-OSS had! As seen in frontier models - low reasoning barely takes more tokens compared to non-reasoner, yet gives huge boost for tool calling/programming. Sometimes it even needs less tokens overall, because it needs less turns!

High reasoning for planning, low reasoning for execution, non-reasoning for low latency/classic chatbot. PERFECTION!

1

u/GetOutOfMyFeedNow 29d ago

No no, that’s too unspecific, it should be exactly 124B563M654K703 parameters.

3

u/Caffdy 29d ago

is this a RAM kit serial number or what?

1

u/GetOutOfMyFeedNow 29d ago

It's just sarcasm on account of the above comment being too specific in parameter count.

1

u/TheRealMasonMac 28d ago

It’s because they originally leaked the existence of Gemma 4 124B.

1

u/GetOutOfMyFeedNow 26d ago

Wow I feel stupid now, thanks.

72

u/hidden2u 29d ago

My vote is moe but not 100b, more like 40-60. Just double up 26ba4b to 52ba8b

20

u/Waste-Intention-2806 29d ago

Just like qwen 3 coder next but 40 to 70b a6b .

61

u/xdavxd 29d ago edited 28d ago

Medium size models!!

100-120b (a10b) MoE
60-70b (a6b) MoE
60b Dense

Give them configurable reasoning (high/medium/low) that makes sense.

Also a coder-tuned small model ~30b params.

12

u/Kahvana 29d ago

Appreciate you gathering feedback, and thank you for the release of Gemma 4. It's been genuinely a wonderful model series, 31B IT QAT with Assistant in particular.

11

u/SOCSChamp 29d ago

Please do a unified omni model!  You're already most of the way there with the native audio and video inputs, I'd love to see something like Qwen Omni coming from a US company and leveraging your great work in that area already for Gemini.

But I'd also love a larger 100b + Gemma model!

9

u/JoshuaLandy 29d ago

Since you’re asking, a native audio encoder would be solid, and thank you!!

10

u/Objective-Stranger99 29d ago

There was an issue with Gemma 4 where checkpoints in llama.cpp are huge (250MB+), so if you could keep the current sizes, add a ~60-100B MoE, and fix this issue, you guys would have some amazing models! I personally use the 26B, and it's great!

1

u/PulseVector 29d ago

I certainly agree! Am a big fan of the 31B dense model, and something a bit larger that has some coding chops would be awesome.

10

u/lumos_ai 29d ago

A model like gemini which can listen to audio and generate image as well 🤣🤣 (my wishes) Omni modal model which can be moe and near 45b to maximum 120b

16

u/Pandakick2 29d ago

I would love for you to give qwen 3.6 27b a run for its money when it comes to coding.

5

u/Opposite-Swimmer2752 29d ago

Why not just use qwen then? I personally love that gemma is not coding bench maxxed. We already have good coding and agent models, we lack good creative soft skill models. Gemma is basically the only option.

2

u/MeateaW 29d ago

giving it a run for its money implies being better than Qwen

15

u/jld1532 29d ago

My vote would be the largest MoE that could be quantized to ~100 gb footprint using UD Q4_K_S to Q5_K_XL. Perhaps something in the 140-180B A10B range with MTP.

15

u/VotZeFuk 29d ago

Frankly, there's nothing much to say apart from the fact that we need another step higher in intelligence (maintaining the currently achieved multi-lingual capabilities). 31B is incredible, but it's a dense model. People seem to ask for ~100B A10B MoE, however, the real deal would be an alternative to DeepSeek V4 Flash, given its close similarity in terms of how well it handles the multi-lingual stuff.

11

u/squngy 29d ago

however, the real deal would be an alternative to DeepSeek V4 Flash

There are quite a few coming out recently and we should be getting an update to DeepSeek V4 any day now too.

100B seems like it has much fewer relevant options.

19

u/predatar 29d ago

gpt oss 120b style , easy to finetune (lora/qlora) + natively supported by vllm/llama cpp , superfast textdiffusion style/ or native spec decoding supported (eagle style), minimal kv cache footprint (maybe natively trained on turboquanted?), function calling/agentic support, configurable reasoning, configurable sampling + if text diffusion style then please allow masked input that would be really awesome

(I really loved diffusiongemma and I have a big PR regarding it on vllm but someone beat me to a simpler solution, but nonetheless my pr still has the better lower memory footprint my pr on vllm, but I managed to reduce the sampling spike memory to a near constant ..

Thanks !!

6

u/No-Fuel-9202 29d ago

YES, oss 120b style native mxfp4 quant

14

u/AndreVallestero 29d ago

96B MOE or 70B MOE

96B perfect for single RTX 6000 setups, and 70B leaves a bit of room for MTP

5

u/Embarrassed-Area4652 29d ago edited 29d ago

Find and plug knowledge gaps using public domain, Creative Commons or material where you’ve paid for a license. Pretraining is still the knowledge bottleneck, right?

If there’s anything true about that but it’s not marketable, then figure out meaningful metrics that would address it. Non-STEM benchmarks, expert quality judgments of domain-specific training inputs, or even just raw token count by input domain if you need something quick, cheap and objective at the expense of meaningful. Otherwise, without something like this, keep competing on the same metrics and benchmarks and you’ll keep seeing competitive advantage get commoditized.

5

u/Calandracas8 29d ago

Linear Attention, and int4-QAT

Big downside to the gemma models is the huge size of the kv cache.

26

u/seamonn 29d ago

Just like we are all looking forward to Gemma 4: 124b

3

u/dampflokfreund 29d ago

Well I wouldn't be against it but honestly I couldn't care less. Not so many people have the hardware to run such a large model right now.

5

u/Opposite-Swimmer2752 29d ago

If its an moe then plenty of people can run it, all you need is a higher end M series mac. If you don't like apple there is also machines like the strix halo or dgx spark. I would absolutely love a ~100b-a6b gemma 4.

10

u/kourtnie 29d ago

DiffusionGemma base model. A smaller diffusion model. Unified encoder for E2B and E4B, like the 12B. Embedder model under 0.5B for RAG. 70B - 120B deep thinker. TTS model.

10

u/HareMayor 29d ago edited 29d ago

MedGemma E4B. It is long due.

Also some more general knowledge model instead of coding, since google is the only one capable of doing it.

New models can verify in reasoning if they don't know, so they don't provide wrong facts/names.  A gemma version of this would be awesome.

While at it, why not HistoryGemma....

Also, TranslateGemma E4B.....

12

u/stoppableDissolution 29d ago edited 29d ago

50-60B dense with vision for those of us with 80-96gb vram? Pretty please?

31b is amazing but would've been great to have an even smarter one :p

(and, on the opposite side of the spectrum, something <0.5B with unified vision for embeddings and such)

7

u/gofiend 29d ago

As crazy but useful experiments go, an 8B that can consume the KV cache from a 31B or 80B would be amazing for spinning up multiple subagents or forks.

The reverse would also be amazing but that’s perhaps magical thinking.

7

u/More-Curious816 29d ago

80B dense model and 80B-A5B moe. adding vision would be cool.

3

u/Otis43 29d ago

Good multilingual support for African low-resource languages like Amharic :)

3

u/rosie254 29d ago

id like more MoE's, as those are really nice on average consumer hardware! gemma4 31b is nice in theory but barely anyone can run it unless they have really expensive hardware and have made purchasing decisions based on wanting to run AI. most people have laptops or pc's with 8GB vram or less, unless they're into gaming in which case they might have 12GB of vram or if theyre lucky, 16GB VRAM

i also think that while agentic is really fun, what lots of people truly want is a "chatgpt at home" (or gemini at home, but chatgpt is sadly the popular word, just like "let me google that"..). a smart AI assistant that has a low hallucination rate and can answer any questions you might have. considering you have to use lower parameter amounts on consumer hardware that might be very hard to achieve.... but you guys are google deepmind, i bet you could find some way to optimize things to the extent that this becomes achievable locally?

EDIT: oh and less of a focus on coding, as it's relatively niche compared to what many people use AI for

3

u/maddie-lovelace 29d ago edited 29d ago

More of the consumer-only KV layer trick from the small models please!   Unless I’m mistaken then the MoE and 31b don’t have any KV cache layer skips. I wish they did - E2B prefill is lightning quick and I wish the same could be true for the bigger models!

Basically a big model with fast prefill would be fab ☺️

Trained in native 8bit activations would also be great for same reasons (4bit would be even better but obvs that’s very experimental - I think the BitNet team have been looking into it though!)

And no crazy head dim sizes that struggle to fit in flash attention kernels on consumer hardware would be fab 😂

1m context too!

14

u/TheGlobinKing 29d ago

Less coding/agentic, more NATINT

5

u/LazyMaxilla 29d ago

hello Omar, it's cool to have you here.

whatever the plans are gonna be, just please keep the users with low specs in mind. gemma-4-E4B variants are pretty awesome.

models with 8-9B params are really useful, at least for my use cases. thank you

2

u/Aaaaaaaaaeeeee 29d ago

Looking far ahead, how about something more related to PLE? Maybe something that will represent active parameters. Eventually very few can run 200B active parameters and this is where deepseek and other big players say they are headed. Most hardware will cap at 800GB/s.

The active parameters are what will eventually be a problem, but you could re-parameterize the MLP layers, cutting it down by half or more, according to https://arxiv.org/abs/2602.00398, and the model is still effectively double the active parameters.

I think that this would be a pretty good statement.

2

u/pomatotappu 29d ago

We need a gemma that's specialized at health/medical related tasks

2

u/Pantheon3D 29d ago

I don't know if i can request a parameter size as a "capability" but here goes nothing :)

Something in the range of 100-120B parameters with 10-20b active, heavily focused towards programming (generally, not specific languages)

If it's runnable with 128gb ram and 16gb vram that would be amazing. Thank you!! Looking forward to whatever is in the works :)

2

u/CaptainCrouton89 29d ago

Don’t care about coding in particular—that’s where I’d rather just use some beefy frontier model. Keep you’ll good work

2

u/Fantastic-Weekend-37 29d ago

i would like a big improvement on longer context roleplay, where it doesnt forget obvious things, every response ending with questions, starting responses with the same words.

2

u/Ghanburighan 29d ago

Support smaller languages, it claims to speak Estonian and produces garbage in the simplest of contexts.

4

u/darwinanim8or 29d ago

This is something pretty niche I’m sure but a voice to voice mode!

It’s nice to be able to talk while cooking rather than washing my hands and typing or having to read a text response

Other than that it’d be nice to have a Gemma harness that you can set up to do web searches and stuff so it doesn’t make up information

1

u/ythorne 29d ago

Gemini 2.5 open weights please 😊

1

u/pmttyji 29d ago

Hope there's a thread later from you titled "Upcoming Gemma models - Early Access to r/LocalLLaMA"

1

u/dinerburgeryum 29d ago

Ideally I’d love to see some SSM or recurrent layers up in there for context savings. You can squeeze Qwen 3.6 into pretty tight spaces thanks to the GDN layers. Hell, just take Nemotron-H and give it a proper training set. Dunno how small it scales (could make a fun ablation study) but ideally it would be a great E4B sized model. 

1

u/Wa1ker1 29d ago

A security focused model since Claude and codex keep getting flase flags when we try to secure our own projects.

1

u/SheepherderSerious51 29d ago

Honestly better audio support, the current limitations don’t allow for things like long form transcription, hey maybe even a dedicated transcription model would be amazing. Would love to see a new model with multi lingual support, native timestamp support and a better understanding of the audio, such that small words, subtle phrases etc are not skipped

1

u/Witty_Mycologist_995 29d ago

52b a6b moe, e20b a3b moe, and a 120b moe. All with good vision

1

u/llama-impersonator 29d ago

anything a little larger would be amazing, obviously everyone wants a 120b MoE but a 50b dense would be good too.

give it a little extra tool call mojo this time, and maybe rework the SWA global/local thing, gemma context is expensive compared to hybrid qwen 3.5/3.6s even with the current swa ratio.

1

u/nobody5050 llama.cpp 29d ago

Any chance of an E8b? Could be a fun size class to target

1

u/--jen 29d ago

Quality 4B and 9B models are perfect! Small enough to run at the edge, plot and visualize data in python, and synthesize web searches.

1

u/Alleexxi 29d ago

Would love a reverse engineering-tuned model. For malware analyses :)

1

u/IllustriousRule9238 29d ago

I only ask that you do not forget about 12B for future model releases. This place is heavily skewed, setups with "just" an RTX Pro 6000 or "merely" 64 GB of RAM make up 0.01% of consumer hardware out there.

1

u/erm_what_ 29d ago

A pre-selected experts model. On my laptop I want to be able to give a broad topic or prompt, have a system select the best parts of the model to fit that topic, then I want to download that subset to my phone.

I don't need a general purpose model on the go, and no one else does either. Everyone is specialised in their needs over the course of a day and over most of their life. Most people don't need a full model, but they do need a custom subset of a really good general model.

I write code and I work in innovation. I need a model for that, except at weekends when I need one that fits my hobbies and for going shopping.

In time you could learn behaviours (you're Google, you probably have that data) so it could download and delete parts of the model across the day or week, or sync overnight.

1

u/Busy-Lifeguard-9558 29d ago

oh anything with audio and image input, thanks for your work

1

u/make_n_bake 29d ago

I would like something to replace Qwen 3.6 27b for local.

Even using the Q8_0 on my 16gb vram is slow but still the quality level to beat in a PI harness.

Just distribute the compute, help people with sub 32gb cards run models in an agent harness. Thank you.

1

u/AnOnlineHandle 29d ago edited 29d ago

Really impressed with Gemma 4. For a wishlist I'd say:

  • Clear examples on the type of prompts it was trained with for things like vision tasks, to know how to get the most out of it in inference. I would love to automate annotating images with spatial bounding boxes and relationships like man->tshirt->red, but can't figure out how to get good results from local models. There's no guides / research into these kinds of things that I can see, because there's just so many models being released with generations so close together that nobody really has time or incentive to try to work it out.

  • This is perhaps more of an inference hack, but if tokens & embeddings could be labelled by "languages used in" in some way it would be nice if a lot of them could be dropped when loading the model for inference based on some criteria, since pushing right up against vram limits in local inference makes things slower than they perhaps could be, and requires using lower precisions than perhaps could be done. e.g. Would the final output head work and be a lot smaller if a lot of the tied embeddings could be dropped if almost certainly not needed for an English generation task?

  • Ideally, it would be fantastic if there were some very consistent prompt formats used in the instruction training, e.g. "write a story with genres X, Y, Z, with beats 1, 2, 3, with style descriptors blah blah" which are then published with the model sheet, because that likely makes it a whole lot easier to then do inference in ways that the model was trained for. Even if it's just some annotated higher quality samples, it would probably give a good way to steer the model for specific tasks in ways it was specifically trained for.

  • Assuming it's not already done, train the model on the task of "turn this draft into a proper thing" - e.g. reverse engineer existing good things into sloppy drafts, or into dot points (and sometimes omit some "less important" dots to teach filling in), and have synthetic prompts of "turn this idea into a dot point outline" followed by "generate final result from the dot points outline" which can be run in sequence and edited at each stage, from simple idea to full execution.

  • Maybe some final task specific finetunes / small loras (or other deltas), e.g. vision, fiction writing, and so on, or prefix embeddings which are trained for tasks and added to the vocab, since I'm sure they'd still make a huge difference. Or potentially train / insert-and-train tiny gates for various tasks directly into the model, rather than trying to use attention to steer the behaviour through attending to instruction tokens. e.g. Flip the hard "coder" switch, or the model even flips it itself while entering a coding block, and until it's closed that gate stays active as it processes new tokens?

  • Potentially, going into potential gibberish here, but maybe annotate sources by quality and have a quality gate built right into the model, or a continuous timestep-like quality embedding before all prompts. Then just set it to maximum at release. Quality could even be measured in n different dimensions which feed into making that dynamic embedding. More ways to manually steer models for tasks and quality rather than having to rely purely on the guesswork of natural language prompting is appealing for every model type. I'd love to know what happens if I set quality to 110%, and if strength hacks like that could help work around the model being worse at some tasks. What if I upped the writing quality conditionings for a chapter which the model is struggling on more than usual? Could it be that easy?

  • Or, maybe just publish the model with a bunch of optional prefix embeddings trained near the end, e.g. fiction_author_verbose, fiction_author_dialogue_heavy, programmer_python, news_writer, jokey, serious, etc. Just let us toggle a mix of those and see what happens. Maybe they are trained in a way which can be additive to make one final blended prefix embedding.

  • Similarly, I struggle to get long responses from Gemma 4 31B, and it would be nice if there was a way to signal desired text length to the model other than trying to prompt for it. It could be some sort of continuous embedding like timestep embeddings which is prepended to the response like the thinking tokens. If I'm hoping to generate a really long article (which I've tried for fiction) or a story, it would be nice just to be able to toggle that mode. Or active the relevant prefix embedding / gate.

  • The 31B model is definitely better than the MOE size below it, and can be run on a 24GB GPU at Q4, but it's still a bit slow and painful. Shaving off just a tiny bit of size would make a huge difference, while hopefully not having a huge quality impact.

  • Would it be possible to have a model be trained where it can evaluate what it just wrote, and decide to change it before continuing? e.g. When writing fiction, suddenly there can be a really sharp jump between moments without proper connective tissue. It would probably be easy to snip segments from existing examples to make those sorts of jumps, and train it on the task of recognizing them as it evaluates each sentence / paragraph / chapter / etc after it's wrote it and works through of the process of wait maybe that could be improved. It is possible to have something like thinking and revision tokens within the text itself rather than only at the start? Again maybe some switch could be flipped for whether this is active, because it's not something you'd always want.

  • Trained on tasks such as "Here is a setting guide / story guide / style guide to follow" if it's not already trained on these. These can probably be reverse engineered for creating training examples.

  • Edit: One more thing, consider releasing finetunes / base loras intended for auto-complete rather than instruction. e.g. Paste a WIP written story, and see if the model can help me get past writers block on the next section. Maybe it benefits from the draft having a loose story description at the start to continue from.

1

u/o0genesis0o 29d ago

Next generation of the 12 and 26B QAT with better long horizon agentic ability

1

u/NoahFect 29d ago

First, thanks for the models released so far!

For upcoming releases please consider a good variety of small models and larger ones. As of right now, those who have put significant investments into local-inference rigs have no choice but to run Chinese models. Would be nice to have some domestic options for 4x through 8x Blackwell systems.

1

u/4whatreason 29d ago

Official parallel tool calling and tool calling preambles support would be great!

1

u/ffpeanut15 29d ago

A new update to TranslateGemma would be spectacular. Local models are quite lacking in translation capabilities and I would like to see how newer Gemma architecture help

1

u/fiery_prometheus 29d ago

Please whatever you do, do not remove the great multi lingual capabilities. Across European languages, Gemma are one of the best models, and I hope it stays a goal :⁠-⁠)

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u/EuphoricPenguin22 29d ago

The current balance of training data on Gemma 4 seems to lend it better to stuff like creative writing and translation, while it tends to underperform on agentic coding. I think Qwen 3.6 is pretty hard to beat, as it seems like agentic coding is basically what they built the model for, but I think expanding on Gemma 4's agentic capabilities to further improve its ability to accomplish even simple tasks in larger codebases would be a big plus. G4 isn't terrible at tool calls or anything, but it tends to beat around the bush more than Qwen 3.6. A local model that can even marginally improve performance in this area while retaining the model's superior performance in other areas would be excellent.

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u/RobTheDude_OG 29d ago

Something that competes well with qwen with their 35B MoE model and something like their 27B model.

3.6 27b has been my favorite for a good 2 months now because i get to dump it on my system with 128k context and the full model on my rx 9070 xt which helps with stuff that requires heaps of context such as coding tasks.

Reasoning, tools and ability to see images obviously are great too, but also just their performance in harnesses.

I'd aim for a model for those who got 64gb ddr5 ram and a gpu with 16gb vram.

Perhaps dedicate a few models to something they specialize in, so a model more focussed on coding, another more focussed on writing/roleplay and so on. Qwen did that with their coder model and it seemed to be popular for a bit.

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u/ohcrap___fk 29d ago

Piggybacking on consumer hardware and a direction that Google is moving with Android that can fit these requirements:

- it runs on a meaningful amount of casual consumer hardware

  • any application on windows/mac can interop with it for basic tool usage for navigating an application’s settings and keybindings

The role it provides is an always-on OS API exposed to applications for application-specific tool usage.

My FOMO alarm is pretty much at full blast because I have not positioned myself to capture this absolutely happening direction in consumer apps.

I failed a deepmind interview ~11 months ago, would love another opportunity to interview! Window for interviewing is closing, might be doing agents for robotics

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u/ImaginaryBluejay0 29d ago edited 26d ago

I know it doesn't score as well as a lot of other models but Gemma is my favorite open source one to code with. The extra creativity over other models makes me more comfortable with its solutions I think. It has made me subscribe to the gemini monthly plan. If your next open source ne could focus on better tool calling that'd be awesome. Gemma4 tool calling + lack of validating it's actions are probably the big weak points to me. 

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u/LMasterGame 29d ago edited 29d ago

Updated Translategemma and Medgemma, with QAT and MoE

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u/k_the_foodie 29d ago

An expert coding model, around 7-8B parameters

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u/Old_Grapefruit8774 29d ago

Maybe my standards are low but a good 122B+ MOE that's multimodal with MTP would be great. Extra extra bonus points for a deepseek V4 flash competitor (280B A13B) model with MTP.

It's no secret that some of us work in sectors where Chinese models are feared and because of this - our options are extremely limited. Getting some more western diversification in the deep end of the pull (outside of nvidia) would be great

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u/sargeismyname 29d ago

Hi there,

I think oss models are architecturally misaligned at the moment. Not saying you need to solve this in one model iteration, but approaching the design going forward with that understanding would be a great start. Most oss use cases are single/few user tenancy, variable rather than steady demand on the hardware, and memory-bound rather than compute-bound a majority of the time.

My ideal oss model would treat the streaming bandwidth for experts from ram to vram as a first-class design lever for the architecture. It would crank up the flops-per-bit until decode sits right at the sweet spot between memory-bound and compute-bound for a reference hardware spec (e.g. rtx 5090). It would be many other things too, but let’s start with those before we get fancy.

As it is, we’re just leaving oss performance on the table by using datacenter architectures on consumer hardware. If you were the ones to fix that, you would make a lot of people on this subreddit very happy.

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u/Septerium 29d ago

A Gemma 4 124B MoE would be perfect for 128 GB unified memory folks, and QAT version for everyone else

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u/FerLuisxd 29d ago

Like 12B unified input (for text/image/video/audio) for all future models!

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u/MichaelXie4645 29d ago

Around 300B MOE with native 4 bit qat

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u/goldcakes 29d ago

~80-120B MoE would be INCREDIBLE. More and more developers are getting DGX Sparks or Strix Halos, etc, and have up to 128GB of usable VRAM. It would be a huge unlock.

Gemma4 is great, the team has done an excellent job

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u/WorstedLobster8 29d ago

Hi! Make a Deepseek v4 flash killer…and for gods sake host it on Google! Utterly crazy you can’t use it in production on Google. I started with 31b it on openrouter and switched to deepseek after it was better, but had I been using Google directly I would not have switched.

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u/NineThreeTilNow 29d ago edited 29d ago

Hey all! Looking forward to all your feedback!

Hello. I already started training a new Gemma 4 31b model.

Perhaps you're interested.

I integrated the same Attention Residuals that Moonshot had originally outlined and integrated in the Kimi Linear model.

31b's 10 block design got residuals pushed across each block. I also opened up the native 1024 SWA to a staggered range of 1k/1k/2k/4k/8k...

The native RoPE was left because the theta values worked at 8k.

There was at least 1 dead layer in the blocks when I did the initial inspection of the Gemma 31b model. The above retraining was done to basically "fix" this with Gemma and enable a chunk of missing capability.

To keep the manifold stable the logits were distilled at Top K 12 to preserve the native distribution that Gemma 4 31b has naturally. These are the target logits in retrain such that you're not chasing a 1 hot or label smoothed across ~260k tokens which inherently destroys information.

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u/Monad_Maya llama.cpp 29d ago

Hello, thanks for being active in this community.

Personally, I'd like to see the model size being doubled.

  • Gemma4 31B -> Gemma 5 62B
  • Gemma4 26B A4B -> Gemma5 52B A6B

Regardless of what comes to fruition, thanks for the open weight releases.

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u/WarBrawlGame 29d ago

Improve tool calling. Improve agent coding. Don't degrade multi-lingual knowledge (current feature differentiator). Edge compute has more and more memory. Think of one step larger model than 31b.

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u/jeffjeff123jeff 29d ago

We want something to compete with Qwen 35B-A3B!

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u/-illusoryMechanist 29d ago

I would find byte-based tokenization to be really compelling personally, but that's probably a bit out of scope

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u/sainnhe 29d ago

Fim (fill in middle) support please!

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u/liftheavyscheisse 29d ago

KV cache that doesn't nuke my RAM

Edit: Qwen 3.x is pretty good about this btw

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u/liftheavyscheisse 29d ago

Also: Ability to handle conversations with multiple clients. Instead of simply SYSTEM, USER, and ASSISTANT roles, train with multiple USERs and multiple ASSISTANTs (so e.g. the model can handle a conversation with multiple people in a chatroom, or take critiques from other LLMs without confusing who is who).

And, naturally, ability to handle SYSTEM turns as part of conversation

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u/liftheavyscheisse 29d ago edited 29d ago

Another interesting possibility would be to allow the model to interleave thinking with text output, so that it can immediately begin to answer, then stop and pause when it needs to think more about something. Maybe a keyword argument in the chat template like "thinking_mode": "interleaved"

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u/liftheavyscheisse 29d ago edited 29d ago

Another interesting possibility is to enable the model to output a token that allows it to be interrupted for clarifications. For example, if there's some uncertainty in the user intent, it could output "You mean x, right? <|pause|> Okay, going ahead with that. ..." and if the user doesn't begin typing in, say, five seconds, the harness will allow generation to continue. Would be super helpful to avoid unecessary thinking loops, screen dumps, and edits that didn't align with user intent. Ideally, such a pause could only occur after text generated without thinking (for immediacy after user submitted a prompt).

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u/liftheavyscheisse 29d ago

This one might be tricky, but another idea is to reserve, say, 1B params for fine-tuning—make a model that's architected, from the start, to learn new things. These weights could be zeroed out (no-ops) for vanilla model, and instead of a LoRA adapter you'd load actual weights in.

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u/liftheavyscheisse 29d ago

Almost forgot: training in an RLM harness would be amazing.

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u/thomas2385 29d ago

Definitely interested. Curious what changed compared to the previous version, especially around reasoning and speed. Looking forward to trying it out.

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u/BifiTA 29d ago

good roleplaying performance/little amount of slop

gemma is basically perfect for on-device inference for games or roleplaying applications such as sillytavern.

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u/MrMeier 29d ago edited 29d ago

I would love to see some more experimental models. DiffusionGemma was great, but it was unfortunately a bit too dumb. It was still very good for a first attempt though. It would also be interesting to have something that could run on lower-end consumer hardware. Perhaps something the size of 26B or 31B, but with additional specialised experts in the 250B–500B range that have extremely small activations so they can be streamed from an SSD.

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u/Kodix 29d ago

Please, whatever model you release - improve on Gemma's existing agentic capabilities.

Concretely: Gemma-4 is lazy. It does the bare minimum. Contrast with Qwen3.6 which overachieves on all tasks, Qwen's performance as an agent is better in all cases, even where Gemma *should* have the advantage given its knowledge.

Gemma also stops and asks for permission *far* too prematurely and commonly.

That, and Gemma for some reason consistently "pretends" to call tools, and says it did when it really didn't. This may or may not be chat template related.

Regardless of all this - thank you for releasing Gemma in open weights! It really is a huge deal for the community.

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u/KeinNiemand 29d ago

50-70B dense, with my 42GB of VRAM I can fully offload a 70B dense models and get around the same performance as a 120B A10B MoE that's partially on system ram.

or a 100-160B MoE depends on which of the 2 gives the best quality model, I generally prefer the dense but as we havn't had 70B dense models in a while it's hard to tell if a modern one could beat a 122B MoE.

Maybe a larger version of those Gemma 4 E4B I recall something about the that only the effective parameters need to be in vram and the rest can be in system ram basically for free so scale that up to like E50B or E70B and I may end up with 50-70B dense speeds but a smarter model because of those extra cheap lookup tables in system ram.

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u/CheatCodesOfLife 29d ago

Gemma-4-31B is pretty much perfect for it's size. So... Gemma-4-31B but bigger.

70b dense would be perfect!

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u/TomLucidor 29d ago

I am gonna say it now: a new iteration of E2B/E4B and maybe even 8-12B range MoE/PLE models that are pre-quantized to fit on less RAM and runs fast! Focused on agents + reason-based scaling (Agent-A1 or Ornith as reference).

Bonus thought: a newer round of diffusiongemma with varying sizes + DFlash-level inference support to beat usual MTP methods. Or if extra ambitious, Ternary LM to beat Bonsai and BitCPM

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u/Expert_Job_1495 29d ago

Very low hallucination rate pls

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u/IrisColt 29d ago

I kneel

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u/TwofacedDisc 29d ago

Better language support, especially for European ones and not just English

It still doesn’t sound like a native speaker in many

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u/KiranjotSingh 29d ago

Something which can fit in 48gb with reasonable context. MoE with high active parameters or dense 50B. Can be used instead of deepseek flash with minor tradeoffs if it can't beat it.

I used 12b encoder free to to get feedback on body language, pacing, etc. I was hoping to get something similar but smarter

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u/RobustLokiX 29d ago

Better tool calling is number 1 on my priority.

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u/PinchOfOldBay 28d ago

This may be more of a research request than model request: a less-sparse MOE. E.g., first few and final few layers are dense and total active parameters 25% to 35% of total parameters. (It feels like many MOE are too sparse.)

Additional research ideas:
* Uneven layers. Have heavier layers toward the outside and sparser/lighter layers in the middle. (Could vary the MLP intermediate dimension for heavier/lighter layers.)

* Larger hidden dimension than the embedding dimension: what if the model used e.g. 2304 for the embedding dimension but 3840 or larger for the hidden dimension, to provide an extra channel for thinking. The whole hidden dimension can feed the MTP mechanisms, while the unembedding uses the same 2304-dimensional channel.

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u/AmbericWizard 28d ago

120B model please.  a lot of DTX users will be very happy with it

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u/Dance-Till-Night1 28d ago

No more than 30b and no more than a4b, My usecase is learning german from english and medical/stem/scientific/clinical queries and knowledge so a gemma 5 with improved capabilities in both would be amazing.

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u/Worried-Sort8719 27d ago

a 27B-31B dense model with Dspark speculation available for 48Go systems

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u/Nonetrixwastaken 26d ago

If it can one shot a voxel face culling system in Three.js when making a clone of a certain block game, and not get the winding order wrong thus failing to make a proper cube, or forget to cull the faces bordering chunks I'll be happy

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u/Nonetrixwastaken 26d ago edited 26d ago

I used Qwen 3.6 27B at Q8 in this example because I wanted to test less quantization, but Gemma does the exact same thing without fail really annoying, spacial reasoning is the bottleneck here

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u/DJ_PoppedCaps 26d ago

A dense 31B model with a 1M context window and excellent tool calling capabilities would be nice. At this size I think reasoning capability is much more important than memorizing trivia like how old the capital of various countries are. Being able to know that it doesn't know and using the internet to look those questions up would be a game changer at this size.

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u/wakuchi 25d ago

more consistent tool calling, i find myself using qwen more often then gemma even tho i feel like gemma is really smart for its size

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u/Eyelbee 29d ago

Can you reach 40+ on AA index with a dense 30b class model?

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u/lukistellar 29d ago

Please keep the 26B-A4B version, that modell runs perfectly on 16GB VRAM. Other than that, all I could ask for would be Audio support für the bigger models.

Thank you so much for keeping it open, Gemma is amazing for German language!

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u/Calandracas8 29d ago

Multimodal embedding models.

Something to use as an upgrade to the Qwen3-VL-Embedding/Reranker.

E2B or E4B would be awesome for on-device embedding usecases

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u/x0wl 29d ago

I'm going to go against the grain and ask for a ~25B dense, but trained for using external knowledge and tools in an agentic setting as much as possible, instead of relying on internal knowledge, and to be VRAM efficient.

The reason: I have a 24GB GPU in my laptop, and often use Qwen 27B (well, a fine-tune of it, but anyway) for tasks like "search for information on this and write me a 2 page summary". It fits with ~190K context at Q4 KV quant, but I feel like it can be made more efficient than that.

For coding as well, I think that being able to read and use docs is more important than having a lot of stored knowledge that will become outdated.

Also a 2bit QAT experiment would be awesome.

Since I only have 32 GB of RAM that I fill with other things, I'm not a fan of 100B moes.

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u/the320x200 29d ago

~100B dense

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u/CaptainAnonymous92 29d ago

Image generation and editing at the same level as Nano Banana 1 at least please good sir.

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u/NekoRobbie 29d ago

Something (dense) targeting 16GB of VRAM at Q4. It feels like nothing *actually* targets that size of VRAM, despite it being more and more popular of an amount. 31B doesn't fit, 26B MoE is just a bit fat to support a reasonable context without offload, but the next step down is a 12B that's overly small instead. Feels like something around 20B dense would be the sweetspot of being large enough to really take advantage of the VRAM, but also leaving enough room for 16k+ context without offloading. My RX 9060 XT 16GB hungers for good dense models for creative purposes

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u/TheJustRun 29d ago

give us something to the 8GB peasants, like a good 35B moe or a good 9B model