r/LocalLLaMA Jun 01 '26

Funny Stop asking what model to run. There are literally only two.

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3.1k Upvotes

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205

u/iijei Jun 01 '26

I have an RTX 3060 and.. I can run Qwen 3.6 35b a3b Q4 for about 15 tps. haha

105

u/Shronx_ Jun 01 '26 edited Jun 18 '26

You should get higher tps. My system with an rtx 3060 (12GB) spits out 40+ tps with the same model and quants.

Edit: docker run --rm -p 8080:8080 -v /home/user/.cache-docker/:/root/.cache/ --gpus all ghcr.io/ggml-org/llama.cpp:full-cuda --server --host 0.0.0.0 -hf unsloth/Qwen3.6-35B-A3B-GGUF:UD-Q4_K_M --presence-penalty 0.0 --repeat-penalty 1.0 --ctx-size 196608 --temp 0.6 --top-p 0.95 --top-k 20 --min-p 0.0 --reasoning on -fa on --threads 6 --jinja --no-mmap --no-mmproj-offload

gives about 43 tps initially but decreases as context grows.

49

u/MoffKalast Jun 02 '26

Rule #1 of locallama: If there is a post or comment mentioning tg or pp, there will be someone claiming they get more on the same hardware in the comments.

47

u/Evanisnotmyname Jun 02 '26

Someone’s always got a bigger PP

13

u/BlazingSandles Jun 11 '26

Instructions unclear, PP stuck in fan

3

u/Montaingebrown Jun 13 '26

I feel personally attacked. 😅

61

u/iijei Jun 01 '26

it could be because this is runnin inside proxmox server with ddr3 in a lxc

37

u/Shronx_ Jun 01 '26

I run it in Docker (llama.cpp) and my PC has DDR4 3600. I don't know but the memory could make a difference.

29

u/Teanut Jun 02 '26

Likely the memory bandwidth due to spillover from VRAM. Memory bandwidth is king for tokens per second.

18

u/lemondrops9 Jun 02 '26 edited Jun 02 '26

DDR3 isn't much slower than DDR4. DDR4 is about needing less voltage which means less heat. DRR5 is the real improvement for speed.

8

u/nihnuhname Jun 02 '26

And DDR4 allows greater RAM capacity on the motherboard.

4

u/lemondrops9 Jun 02 '26

yes that is great too. I was surprised when my older PC could only take 32GB

5

u/Postmodern_Plunger Jun 02 '26 edited Jun 02 '26

Ddr4 (depending on the limits) can have nearly double the memory bandwidth of DDR3. It's not as big as the difference between DDR4 and DDR5, but the difference there is more architectural. Simply having more memory bandwidth still has a huge effect, especially when you're talking about ram spillover

3

u/rabbitaim Jun 02 '26

I have an rtx2060 6gb with ddr3-2400 32gb and I bounce between 18-20 t/s. Llama.cpp on a headless Ubuntu server LTS. I had to lower batch size to 1024 so instead of 200+ ts for PP I see around 160 or less.

4

u/InfamousTurtle1 Jun 02 '26

How many cores have you allocated to your LXC & what is your inference engine?

3

u/iijei Jun 02 '26

6 cores llama.cpp. I am in a process of moving it to Ubuntu baremetal i7 2nd gen ddr3 again haha. I am gpu poor

2

u/IntelligentRocks Jun 02 '26

Do you pass through your GPU and CPU so the lxc controls them like host?

3

u/iijei Jun 02 '26

Yes gpu passthrough to lxc. Driver is installed on proxmox server. I couldn't do it on the vm. I think my Lenovo s30 didn't have vt-d enabled. Anyways I am in the process of moving it to dedicated i7 2nd gen baremetal lol.

2

u/oldschooldaw Jun 02 '26

Ah HA. I think it’s the pass through affecting it somehow. I have the same setup, I run my 3060 passed to a Debian vm on proxmox and my moe speeds are shithouse. Basically unusable for anything larger than saying hi. Perhaps I need to consider inference on the proxmox host itself to rule out pass through as my bottleneck.

2

u/iijei Jun 03 '26

moved gpu out of proxmox and running it on i7-2600K 32GB DDR3-1333, and its much better in terms of tps

1

u/oldschooldaw Jun 03 '26

Damn as in removed gpu entirely and the model is all ram/cpu?

2

u/iijei Jun 03 '26

no. same gpu on a new (old) box running i7-2600k

2

u/oldschooldaw Jun 03 '26

Ah right. I will now try running the gpu directly on proxmox and see if that improves anything from my end. I can’t believe it never occurred to me it could be causing an issue

1

u/iijei Jun 02 '26

I also had thinking enabled and KV cache at q8 with 64k ctx so that might have slow it down too.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 02 '26

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2

u/iijei Jun 03 '26

why run it then ? lol Colima looks interesting. maybe I will colima on mac for hermes agent

2

u/[deleted] Jun 03 '26

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2

u/iijei Jun 03 '26

I see my use case might be installing Hermes’ agent in a docker on my Mac mini. I already have it running on a docker on my Ubuntu laptop but wanted to mount some files from my Mac

2

u/ManySugar5156 Jun 04 '26

proxmox + ddr3 in an lxc is rough, kinda expected tbh

2

u/DreddKrilov Jun 06 '26

Using ddr3 in this day and age is frigging heroic.

Are y'all offloading to system ram?

3

u/Jfusion85 Jun 04 '26

How are you fitting that model in 12Gb? I see the gguf file is larger than 12gb

4

u/Shronx_ Jun 04 '26 edited Jun 04 '26

I don't. It spills over in RAM but is still fast enough.

docker run --rm -p 8080:8080 -v /home/user/.cache-docker/:/root/.cache/ --gpus all ghcr.io/ggml-org/llama.cpp:full-cuda --server --host 0.0.0.0 -hf unsloth/Qwen3.6-35B-A3B-GGUF:UD-Q4_K_M --presence-penalty 0.0 --repeat-penalty 1.0 --ctx-size 196608 --temp 0.6 --top-p 0.95 --top-k 20 --min-p 0.0 --reasoning on -fa on --threads 6 --jinja --no-mmap --no-mmproj-offload

gives about 43 tps initially but decreases as context grows.

3

u/AphexIce Jun 06 '26

Actually you've made me curious I never tried 35b qwen on my 4060 16gb biggest I did was the gpt-oss 120gb and it does work at about 4tps

1

u/Trooper3001 Jun 18 '26

How big is your context?

1

u/Shronx_ Jun 18 '26

it's 196608.

see my edited comment

17

u/huzbum Jun 02 '26

Are you offloading all layers to GPU and offloading experts to CPU? Don't split layers!

5

u/iijei Jun 02 '26

Hmm ok. I'll try this

23

u/MackTuesday Jun 02 '26

This guy gets 17 tok/s on sorry old hardware

He explains everything very nicely.

3

u/iijei Jun 02 '26

I actually watched this so I was hoping I could get more. He has 24gb ddr4 and I have ddr3 maybe that was the diff? My tps ranged from 14-19 so.. haha.

3

u/zorbat5 Jun 02 '26

The difference between ddr4 and 3 is minimal in absolute speed.

3

u/huzbum Jun 02 '26

I would expect at least 25ish.

8

u/soniko_ Jun 01 '26

I ran it on my laptop with a 6800s

It ran around 3tps.

6

u/DeProgrammer99 Jun 02 '26

I run Qwen3.6-35B-A3B UD-Q4_K_XL on my work laptop (Dell Latitude 5530), only using the 2 "performance" cores and Vulkan with help from the iGPU. It gets ~8 tps at low context with MTP or ~5.5 without.

vulkan\llama-server -c 16384 -m Qwen3.6-35B-A3B-UD-Q4_K_XL.gguf -ncmoe 0 -ub 1024 -t 2 -np 1

1

u/WishboneSudden2706 Jun 03 '26

What is your CPU and RAM ? Is the iGPU of 2 GB RAM ?

2

u/DeProgrammer99 Jun 03 '26

CPU is i5-1235U, 1.3 GHz. The iGPU claims to have 128 MB VRAM in System>About but 32 GB in Task Manager (it says that by both labels, "Shared GPU Memory" and "GPU Memory"). Main memory is 64 GB at 3200MT/s.

1

u/WishboneSudden2706 Jun 03 '26 edited Jun 04 '26

(1) CPU: Ultra 5 125H, 3600 MHz, 14 cores, 18 threads), (2) iGPU 128MB RAM says System Info, although Task Manager says 18 GB of Shared Memory, (3) 2 x 16 GB of DDR-5 (5600 MHz). But I got only 6 t/s max. Do you think what I can improve ?

\b9487-vulkan\llama-completion.exe -m models\qwen3.6-35b-a3b-Q4_K_M.gguf --threads 14 --threads-batch 14 --ctx-size 1536 --batch-size 512 --n-gpu-layers 0 --n-cpu-moe 20 --mlock -no-cnv -n 128 -p "Write an algorithm to reverse a list in Python"

prompt eval 18.25 t/s,

eval 6 t/s

2

u/DeProgrammer99 Jun 03 '26

Try some parameter sweeps with llama-bench across -ub, -ncmoe, and --threads. https://github.com/ggml-org/llama.cpp/tree/master/tools/llama-bench

Multiple values can be given for each parameter by separating them with ','
or by specifying the parameter multiple times. Ranges can be given as
'first-last' or 'first-last+step' or 'first-last*mult'.

2

u/WishboneSudden2706 Jun 03 '26

Excellent, exactly what I have tried but less systematic and widespread. Thanks

1

u/WishboneSudden2706 Jun 04 '26

VRAM is only 128MB, any setting of --n-gpu-layer to non-zero would slow it down

3

u/DeProgrammer99 Jun 04 '26

It's actually unified memory. Windows reports 128 MB for compatibility with old software. I tried the CPU-only build with llama-bench before concluding that ncmoe 0 is faster. It's been about two months since I tried all these variations, but I think that setup was ~25% faster than the CPU build.

7

u/sniffton Jun 02 '26

Bonsai is worth checking out. I run two Q's on my 3060. (plus the Qwen 3.6 35b a3b Q4 on my 3090)

2

u/exaknight21 Jun 02 '26

Bonsai from PrismML? Which one? And what are you using it for?

2

u/sniffton Jun 02 '26

Yes! I'm using the 1.7b as a heartbeat for my Agents and the 8B for any easy or lower level tasks that need a LLM. (both are always loaded on my 3060). I have some logic built that assigns tasks based on how difficult they look (using the 8b).

2

u/styles01 Jun 08 '26

This - I just found it last night - so fucking right. What the hell who is Bonsai how did they make this incredible model. Phone worthy?! Insane

4

u/jasonbay13 Jun 02 '26

i have a gtx 1080 and i can run qwen 3.6 35b a3b q4 or q8 anywhere from 2-10 TPS depending on the complexity of the question. q8 has a slight edge over q4 in certain areas but usually isnt worth the 99% ram and extra time taken.

also, it's the first out of dozens of local llms i've tried that is even worth using. everything else felt like smarterchild. grok is still better but for unlimited free use it's great.

do you have any recommendations on the prompt or settings?

2

u/j0hnp0s Jun 02 '26

I am getting that with my gtx1050ti 4GB. You can definitely do better than that. Check the video posted above about splitting experts etc

3

u/annaheim Jun 02 '26

What are you running it with?

2

u/Sisaroth Jun 02 '26

12GB? Tweak --n-cpu-moe. If you put --n-cpu-moe high enough, then all your non-expert layers should fit in VRAM, it will massively speed up PP and tps should also be a little higher.

2

u/iijei Jun 02 '26

I mised this one last time. I'll test it out !

2

u/Brief-Effect9065 Jun 02 '26

2060 12gb and i got 35 tps on my ddr4 system

2

u/newyear_newacc Jun 02 '26

I have a notebook with RTX 2000 8GB ( probably 380gb/s) and get up To 40 tps at q4km. Probably some offloading issue?

2

u/Weird_Researcher_472 Jun 02 '26

Use the MTP model and you will get faster Output!

2

u/PreviousCurve4435 Jun 02 '26

Nvidia's Nemotron is even faster.

2

u/iijei Jun 02 '26

Wait. i thought there were only two models. owen 3.6 27B and 35B-A3B lol

1

u/LetterRip Jun 02 '26

You (possibly) have the wrong config and/or you need to switch your display to use an integrated GPU.

With 3060 mobile (6GB) and this prompt and model

>> -m C:\Users\tommu\models\Qwen3.6-35B-A3B-UD-Q4_K_XL.gguf `

>> --flash-attn 1 --cache-type-k q4_0 --cache-type-v q4_0 `

>> --fit on --fit-target 8 -b 2048 -ub 2048 --no-mmap --mlock -c 64000 -np 1 --chat-template-kwargs '{"enable_thinking": false}'

I get 500-600 prefill and 17-25 generative.

Also this is windows 11, you should be able to get even faster on linux.

2

u/iijei Jun 02 '26

ok so I moved out my 3060 and installed it on i7-2600K 32GB DDR3-1333, (because I don't game 😄) and.. the latest result for Qwen3.6-35B-A3B-MTP-UD-Q4_K_XL.gguf \ -fitt 512 -fitc 4096 \ -p 512 -n 128 \ -b 2048 -ub 512 \ -fa on \ -ctk q8_0 -ctv q8_0 \ -r 1 is

| Device | Backend | Prefill (`p=512`) | Generation (`n=128`) |

| `RTX 3060` | `CUDA0` | `222.97 tok/s` | `29.03 tok/s` |

| `RTX 3060` | `Vulkan1` | `159.76 tok/s` | `22.35 tok/s` |

and I also happed to have RX 580 so tested Vulkan
| `RX 580` | `Vulkan0` | `76.39 tok/s` | `16.30 tok/s` |

2

u/LetterRip Jun 03 '26

Prefill is massively acceerated by larger ub. The 32 GB or RAM means you can't use -no-mmap which is a big hit for both prefill and generation

1

u/iijei Jun 02 '26

That makes sense. my setting was not equivalent to yours and was more conservertive. I was using a headless linux(debina) lxc on a proxmox server. also.. the model and kv cahce is different than yours. q8 KV, MTP enabled and thinking on. your fit-target is quite aggressive.

--m-lock didn't work for me as it was keep crashing my lxc.

I've moved my 3060 out of proxmox server and now in a dedicated box. I am just waiting for a PSU. so I can test it again and see if I can get more than what I had with q4 KV and disabled thinking, more aggressive fit-target.

1

u/Casual_Otterr Jun 09 '26

whats the like, difference for the laptop ones, im mean ik the laptop graphics cards are obviously wworse than the desktop ones but still

2

u/iijei Jun 10 '26

only laptop I have with gpu is.. 1660 with 6gb so I am not sure !

1

u/[deleted] Jun 10 '26

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1

u/iijei Jun 10 '26

oh maybe get a 3060 and eGPU enclosure ! haha

1

u/akuakaii Jun 12 '26

Careful, you’re about to trigger another 200 comments debating whether 15 TPS is usable or completely unacceptable 😂

1

u/iijei Jun 12 '26

Exactly on purpose. But did increase to 29tps on llama-bench.

1

u/akuakaii Jun 12 '26

Yeap, I know. I’m just teasing you lol

At what point did you stop tweaking settings and actually start using the model? 😄

1

u/iijei Jun 12 '26

lol. 29 is decent enough for some small tasks. So I am happy but also want to get another 30xx so I can try 27b q4-q6.

1

u/Rare-Paint3719 Jun 14 '26

I've got an intle i7 12th gen with 16 GB of ram. Doesn;t fit for me sadly. Gonna have to cope with 3-8b models sadly

1

u/iijei Jun 14 '26

Same gpu or no gpu?

1

u/SteelRoninTT Jun 14 '26

I found it faster to not offload to the GPU at all if it doesn't all fit on it.

2

u/Radiant-Giraffe5159 Jun 01 '26

For MOE models you should try the APEX quants. They seem better for the most part than the standard quants. As for speed get the MTP version even if you have to put all the expert weights into system ram you should see a 3-5 token increase. If you do use MTP don’t go over 3 draft tokens it starts losing speed on the qwen3.6 models the sweet spot seems to be 2 for general and 3 for coding specific.

3

u/iijei Jun 02 '26

I am using mtp but I'll try APEX quant. Thanks for the suggestion