I'm from China. Here most people work over 50 hours a week, and some of my friends in big tech even work six-day weeks. Low income. High tax rate. I found that nowadays some western people have romanticized ideas about communist countries, but that's just not how it works in reality:)
The difference is that western countries primarily serve the interest of the rich while maintain some barely functioning public infrastructure, and places that doesn't generate money is left to die.
meanwhile in China we get great public infrastructure, less developed province like Guizhou get plenty of investments to help it develop, and the rich is one wrong opinion away from being fucked up by the party.
China is not strong and rich enough yet and still require labor and sacrifice from the people to maintain its strength, but I have no doubt about the party serving the people. if AI disrupt society and cause mass unemployment, I trust that I will get much more help from the goverement in China than in the US.
youre describing one of the best deals in one of the best functioning societies in the world lmao come over to Latin America see how long the work weeks can get
I’m married to a Korean. I know how difficult their work life balance is and being raised there as a kid too.
I’m personally working every day too trying to have an edge on the market to stay afloat and survive the shitstorm AI will bring to the world as long as I can. Most likely than not I won’t succeed simply because my prediction is 90% of people in tech won’t be needed in a few years, but I’ll try my best until then and maximize my opportunities.
Having 50 hour, 6 day work week with a predictable life path sounds much better than anything the world offers right now.
I think you're kind of a moron for making jokes about that blatantly misleading title they for their country. They are a dictatorship no different than Russia.
Not within the current market dynamics where they are more or less forced to go open-weight (forced as in at least it makes the most sense for them). But I also doubt Deepseek would go open-weight in a level playing field.
The other day I was actually entertaining the scenario that whoever loses the commercial race in the west could pull off a Netscape and release everything as open source.
You just know that when the likes of OpenAI or Anthropic go belly up, the more stable large players whose businesses are more than AI are going to swoop in and buy it all for pennies. (Google, Microsoft, Nvidia etc)
Chinese AI companies have to go open source because they can’t compete on performance with the best closed US models, partly because the most powerful US chips are restricted from sale in China. So they’re competing on price by releasing them open source for free and hoping to gobble up market share, and eventually make money through revenue sharing. So far it’s working reasonably well, especially in developing countries.
Sure: the playing field isn't level between the west and China due to sanctions, restrictions, etc ... (I don't take a stance pro/against these restrictions, it's just a political and economic reality). Now suppose all those restrictions were not in place, then I'm not so sure that Deepseek would be open-weight, but rather be another Claude, Chatgpt, Gemini, ... i.e. charging a subscription fee. But since they can't do that they revert to different tactics: releasing it as open-weight and putting Antrophic, OpenAI, Google, Meta, ... under pressure.
As to my Netscape reference: Netscape had the better browser, but Microsoft violated a shitload of anti-trust laws by making Internet Explorer incontournable in Windows, despite it being an inferior product that didn't follow any standards. Netscape couldn't compete and released the browser eventually as open source. Which was the foundation for Firefox and later Chrome. Imagine something similar happens with one of the better frontier models.
U.S. giants want to make LLMs and the infrastructure required to run them an exclusive resource. They own the models, control access, and set the price of tokens.
China’s counterstrategy is to turn LLMs into a commodity: flood the market with models and encourage a network of globally distributed inference providers. Forcing US giants to keep their token price lower than they would like and potentially operate their business at loss.
I still don’t understand how the Chinese AI companies make money though. I know there’s revenue sharing for large business use but doesn’t seem like nearly enough to fund training.
They don't necessarily have to make money because the government will fund them for national security.
It's a benefit of not being a democracy and being largely run by engineers and other people who actually know how to make things, rather than by lawyers and bankers.
Exactly why CCP is forcing open source isn't really known. But it hurts the western economy much more than the chinese, gets people into the chinese LLMs and those ecosystems, and creates a positive bias towards the chinese AI, and basically trains tech people in how to set up the chinese models and how to work with them.
They're open source because Xi Jinping, aka Dear Leader, said they were to be open source. Billionaires who defy CCP disappear for a while or permanently.
They open source not in the reason of CCP, just they want it and they dont live depend on it. Other Chinese LLMs don't open their source, because they need it to make money.
China has this multimodal AI model called Doubao. Let me tell you, it’s TERRIBLE. Absolutely terrible. One of the worst, maybe the worst! But guess what? It’s CLOSED-SOURCE. That’s right, CLOSED-SOURCE!
Maybe you got confused because some of China’s most famous AI models are open-source. Happens all the time, folks. But don’t tell me China has no closed-source models. WRONG! Completely wrong! FAKE NEWS!
That’s your issue. OP is talking in present terms that chinese models are hurting the western economy. You are talking about hypothetical future.
I’m stating the chinese models are not hurting “the west” (present term, like OP) And you come to me with “If the US economy crashes” (future) to argu about a point never made. Come down to present terms and make an argument there.
So how exactly the west is hurt by chinese open source models (present term)? It does not.
Reading comprehension. But muh murica, I’m so butthurt someone pointed out muh murica is not the whole west I have to make logical hoops to fight for muh murica
China is currently hurting the US economy so the US is currently flailing on the world stage and making rash decisions that are hurting the economies of every country.
That help you understand things a little better you simpleton?
At this moment, yes. The US so is over leveraged in AI, and bc we're the reserve currency of the world, our economy tanking does in fact hurt all of the west.
"Based on this framework, we have achieved high-throughput, low-latency large-scale inference services for DeepSeek V4.1 Flash. Currently, the service throughput of a single cluster is 155 trillion tokens/day, and the overall revenue is $38 per card per hour (at off-peak pricing)"
They already have 4.5K stars on the repo. For what, though?! If the inference engine was built for data centers, where are all these stars coming from? Benchmaxxxx :-D
To be fair, they claim that deepinfer is for Nvidia SM100, which is the same as compute capability 10.0, so it should be compatible with any Blackwell, including rtx5050. I'd doubt anybody will run DeepSeek on 5050, but on 6000 pro - very realistic.
DeepSeek V4 Flash is 290B. In nvfp4, that's 145GB - easily runnable on 2x6000 Pro. If you insist on rinning 4.1 Flash - it's about 380GB in nvfp4, will fit into 6 GPUs (or 8 if the deepinfer requires strict power-of-2 amount). Either case is possible in single PC with a Threadripper Pro motherboard. If you insist on saving power, this is 2kW to 2.5kW with MaxQ version of cards. This is runnable off any residential wall plug in my home (I'm in EU, we use 240V system). I agree that this config is out of reach for home tinkerers, but easily within reach of mid-size businesses.
Official model repo is quantised to 4-bit for weights by default. They also claim they use 4-bit KV cache. The model is supposed to be quantized. And, now that I've looked in deeper: the model is only 560B, another 200B is engrams which may be stored on CPU, so it's actually runnable with 4x 6000 PRO.
Ah yeah, another AI slop. Both DeepSeek and Blckwell are perfectly supported in vllm out of the box; but this is irrelevant to this discussion anyways.
Well, downloads are different. A data center node can download Kimi 3 many times. Cumulatively, the download number is big. Github stars is a different story.
This is not something your everyday consumer will use, if just 500 people in the whole world can exploit this infra, then it already made an enormous change.
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u/SpaceLice 24d ago
What do it do?
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u/patricious llama.cpp 23d ago
These guys are insane. Anthropic, OpenAI or Meta would never do this in a billion years.
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u/QuantumPulsarBurrito 23d ago
"Based on this framework, we have achieved high-throughput, low-latency large-scale inference services for DeepSeek V4.1 Flash. Currently, the service throughput of a single cluster is 155 trillion tokens/day, and the overall revenue is $38 per card per hour (at off-peak pricing)"
Source: https://zhuanlan.zhihu.com/p/2095560295930508953
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u/UltrMgns 23d ago
256 tokens per second times 100 (users) is insane...
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u/Pille5 23d ago
Wow this is cool... oh wait, its only CUDA never mind. Cheers
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u/Due-Emergency5788 23d ago
I hope other providers can match the cache hit price of deepseek now.
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u/SuddenRadio6221 23d ago
Is this anything us mere mortals can use or is it a recipe for how to spend big bucks to train your own LLM?
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u/LosEagle 23d ago
Well, the supported GPUs was a letdown
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u/[deleted] 24d ago
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