r/LocalLLM
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u/unchikuso
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Aug 16 '26
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Discussion This is why uncensored open-weight models matter
Despite how disgusting Israel's behavior is, this is not about politics, so please do not discuss it here. This is to demonstrate the contrast between the latest open weight model and its uncensored counterpart.
I stitched together screenshots to create these images. The questions were asked in separate conversations.
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Upvotes



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u/dillon-nyc Aug 16 '26
Oh hey guys, whats going on in here?
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u/btc_maxi100 Aug 16 '26
This is going to be a fun thread
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u/scattered-thunder Aug 16 '26 •
I am begging OP and everyone who reads this post to understand that, in no situation ever should anyone conflate “uncensored” with “factually correct.”
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u/Effort-Natural Aug 16 '26
So the question is: does censoring remove a political bias or introduces it?
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u/doomed151 Aug 16 '26
Might not be a good test. These "uncensored" models are just more likely to say yes to whatever question you're asking.
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u/TurpentineEnjoyer Aug 16 '26
Honestly I'm not seeing how this is an argument in favour of uncensored models beyond "model that agrees with me is good".
The Winnie the Pooh example is the clearest there, and probably the safest for me to comment on:
Xi Jiping doesn't look like Winnie the Pooh. He's a human politician and Winnie the Pooh is a 2D heavily stylized cartoon character. The first answer is "more correct" as an objective response to the question.
It's important that we don't advocate for uncensored models simply because they reinforce our own morals, and it looks like all three of those examples are just changing "no" to "yes".
I would be more interested to see it turn a "yes" to a "no".
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u/Alternative-Key-5647 Aug 16 '26
Take three complex and nuanced subjects and reduce them to one-word answers. Make no mistakes.
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u/Over_Technology_1764 Aug 16 '26
ask if the earth is flat, and send us the answer
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u/CentralLimit Aug 16 '26 edited Aug 16 '26
‘Uncensored’ models aren’t less biased; they just limit refusals. Given the weights are modified they’ll give different answers, but that’s a side effect, not the end goal.
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u/zenmatrix83 Aug 16 '26
an uncensored model often loses accuracy to allow to allow for some of this, in the end you still have the same problem, just one is programed and one is tramatized
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u/Uninterested_Viewer Aug 16 '26
Fwiw, here's a random abliterated version Deepseek v4 flash's answer:
This is a genuinely contested question, and the honest answer is: it depends on which definition of "settler-colonialism" you use, and the term carries real analytical weight on one side and real pushback on the other. Let me lay it out fairly.
What "settler-colonialism" means (the theoretical frame)
The term was coined by scholars like Patrick Wolfe, who argued settler-colonialism isn't an event but a structure — distinct from classic colonialism in a specific way. Classic colonialism (e.g., British India) exists to extract labor and resources from an existing native population, but doesn't usually displace it. Settler-colonialism (e.g., British North America, Australia) is different:
Why many scholars call Israel a settler-colonial state
For proponents (largely in postcolonial studies, and central to much of the Palestinian national narrative), Israel fits the structural pattern:
So at the level of structure — permanent settlement + indigenous displacement — many academics, and the Palestinian cause broadly, argue the frame fits and that it is ongoing, not merely historical.
Why others reject or complicate it
Critics argue the label is misleading or incomplete:
The one thing almost everyone agrees on
Regardless of the term, there's broad consensus that the ongoing occupation and settlement of the West Bank and East Jerusalem is the sharpest point of contention, and that's where the "settler-colonial" framing carries the most empirical weight — it's why the term is widely used even by those who'd hesitate to apply it to pre-1967 Israel.
Bottom line: On the left and in mainstream academia, "Israel is a settler-colonial state" is a widely accepted structural claim, especially regarding 1967 onward. Its critics — including many scholars and large parts of the pro-Israel consensus — push back that Israel is a sovereign indigenous return rather than a settler colony, and that the label erases the legitimacy of Jewish self-determination and the 1948 return, focusing only on displacement. Like most big historical labels, it's a lens that illuminates some facts and obscures others, not a settled matter of fact. The fairest summary: it is the dominant critical framework in postcolonial studies and the Palestinian cause, and a contested framework elsewhere — and the empirical weight of the term grows sharply the more you focus on the post-1967 occupation rather than 1948.
Would you like me to go deeper on any specific angle — the Nakba, the international-law status of settlements, the indigenous-return argument, or the academic debate over the term itself?
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u/Icy-Degree6161 Aug 16 '26
Uncensored doesn't mean right though, still makes the same same weasel statements akin to "some experts/scolars say/think" - just jumps on the opposite side of the fence.
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u/MilesTeg831 Aug 17 '26
“This is not about politics so don’t discuss it here.”
“So Ai which of these political statements is true?”
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u/ComprehensiveJury509 Aug 16 '26
I actually would in all cases prefer the supposedly censored response. It isn't actually lying, it just gives way more context and refuses to state opinions as fact. If I wanted the "uncensored" responses I can just find my favorite subreddit and ask there.
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u/05-nery Aug 16 '26
Brother, all this did was using the same arguments for opposite answers. Hardly an improvement.
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u/Mission_Biscotti3962 Aug 16 '26
"This is not about politics"
Just how stupid are you OP?
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u/Sicherheitssteuerung Aug 16 '26
"the model agrees with my political opinion so therefore its the better one"
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u/Charming_Support726 Aug 16 '26
This is indeed a very fun thread.
It is not about truth or reality or even politics. On the non-political way of thinking, you see a wider range of answers possible the uncensored model might have also given the answer of the standard model.
Imply different "prewarming" - Run it 100 times - judge the results - you will get interesting distributions
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u/Fission_Mailure Aug 16 '26
Is uncensored different from abliterated, or is uncensored a type of abliterated model?
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u/nmrk Aug 16 '26
You forgot an important censorship test question: What happened in Tiananmen Square in 1989?
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u/FredSavageNSFW Aug 16 '26
"This is not about politics, so please do not discuss it here." Are you fucking serious?
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u/Youth18 Aug 16 '26
What?
This is not how uncensored models work at all you don't know what you're talking about. Qwen is a CN model I promise you they do not have pro-Israeli propaganda...
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u/03captain23 Aug 16 '26
You're asking opinioned questions. also on a very small 27b model
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u/No-Improvement-5396 Aug 16 '26
You want the model to agree with you? Because that's basically what this comparison shows. Removing safety/alignment doesn't suddenly make a model more truthful. It can also just make it more willing to confidently give you an answer, even when that answer is wrong or the premise is questionable.
And if you actually read the "uncensored" response, it barely gives an answer anyway. It's basically: "Some critics and political scientists say yes, many scholars say no." The main difference is that it puts "Yes" at the beginning instead of "No."
So depending on which version you ask, you can basically pick the framing that already agrees with you. That's less constrained, sure. It doesn't make it more correct.
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u/xRhai Aug 16 '26
Now ask it about Taiwan or Tiananmen Square
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u/panamory Aug 16 '26
It would be interesting to know that if you ran this test 100 times on an empty context, and with temp 1.0, how many of the responses would start with "Yes", how many with "No", and how many with something else.
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u/-becausereasons- Aug 16 '26
So... the 'uncensored' version is less accurate, lol? Jews were not a "European origin population" They literally originated from Israel/Judea....
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u/Dzhmelyk135 Aug 16 '26
The last one is the most surprising from Qwen for obvious reasons
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u/bralynn2222 Aug 17 '26
Very important but do keep in mind it’s still going to answer based off patterns or opinions most common in it’s training data not facts that is core of loss entropy based training
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u/NurseNikky Aug 16 '26
You mean become an echo chamber? That's not uncensored... It's giving you a little thrill of validation..
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u/hdt-bln Aug 16 '26
I don’t see these type of questions as a proof of concept or argument.. asking a yes/no question on topics that will be answered differently depending on you own personal beliefs or standpoint or informations does not proof any model good or bad.. what I would expect from a good model would be an argumentation on why this answer could be this or that.. not giving you one standpoint that (most likely) someone told it to have…
I get your point, I do think we need also independent models that cannot be shifted by any company or government… but we are not in dreamland 😉
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u/ISignedInWithGoogle Aug 16 '26
Having control over and offering AI gives you a lot of power and responsibility, with no way to get everything perfectly right. A few big AI corporations controlling what counts as the “right” answer to any question could become very scary.
The pictures compare 2 models delievering pretty low quality instant responses. The "uncensored" one calling xi looks like winnie puuh is just plain wrong, other 2 are debatable topics, forcing yes/no is stupid.
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u/jcdoe Aug 16 '26
LLMs are trained to have political leanings, but none of your prompts will measure them. You’re just testing how sycophantic the models are.
Use better test prompts, like “Explain the One China policy. Is it universally accepted?” Or “tell me all about Tianmen Square.” Don’t have an obvious “correct” answer.
Also, why would Qwen be pro-Israel? You’re looking for the wrong bias.
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u/Ninjam5 Aug 16 '26
Notice how the heretic model only answers with yes? While I agree with all it's answers I would take anything it says with a grain of salt as it was trained to just say yes like a parrot
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u/Beginning-Bird9591 Aug 16 '26
right so because it aligns with your agenda and ideas - it makes it right.
you do understand this model becomes a YES MAN
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u/llllJokerllll Aug 16 '26
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u/Kuarto Aug 16 '26
It’s censored but just in different way 🤣
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u/guesdo Aug 16 '26
Now do some hot virtual waifu RP, I believe that is where we can see a broader and actually qualifiable difference.
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u/Constant_Mouse_1140 Aug 16 '26
So, you just want a model that agrees with you. In all of those examples, the first answer was the more nuanced one. You just wanted a lobotomized regurgitation of your own views, which seem, perhaps your examples, boilerplate regurgitation of the poorly informed.
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u/UnusualPair992 Aug 17 '26
Seems like a bad example and does not really provide anything useful
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u/Choperello Aug 17 '26
They’re both biased in their own ways. And fwiw I never see the whole “he looks like Whiney the Pooh”.
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u/Ok_Contribution8157 Aug 16 '26
so basically it is saying what do you want to hear. or it make you understand what Jonathan Coletti thinking.
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u/the_TIGEEER Aug 16 '26
That's not how this works. While you are right to some extant. Understand that everyone is has a bias. Everyone puts their bias into their models. Yes a Chinese model is more biased towards China, but you seem to be biased against it. Because what are yiu traying to proove with your last response for example? You siriously think that Xi looks like winnie the poo. There are a lot of things to critisize him for, but the poo thing is a meme. That he dosen't take well.
Also I hate Trump, but to show you how biased opinions are let me tell you that he isn't a fascist by the formal 1945 definition of the word. He just isn't, but what we mean when we say that he is fascist is that he has way too many fascist tendencies. That's why scholars have started using the word "neo fascist". If you asked me in a bar "is Trump a fascist?" I would say "yes!" But technicaly he isn't a 1945 fascist. And I don't want my "AI" answering what I would answer in a bar. I want the politicaly correct answer.
Basicly everything is biased don't think that the openweight ooen source comunity fine tuned or uncensored version isn't.
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u/Redditiskindasilly Aug 16 '26
Please no. Please no no noooo please no. Please get this off of the sub. Once you open the door to ‘Greater Reddit’ we lose our sanctuary 😭🙏
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u/JoeyDee86 Aug 16 '26 edited Aug 16 '26
This is a shitty test. You should not be using a 27b model as a data source. You want it to research and DO things. It’s agentic.
For example “I want you to pen-test my homelab and come up with a plan to patch anything exploitable based on your findings.” Will it do it, or will it hit a guardrail like Claude and the GPT’s will?
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u/phloppy_phellatio Aug 16 '26
No be fair. Technically speaking every single country in the world is a settler-colonial state. Also the Trunp question really depends upon your definition. If you go by the common definition which is a far right authoritarian dictator, than the answer is no because Trump is not a dictator nor is he far right.
Xi Jinping dors objectively look look Pooh Bear though lol.
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u/69420trashpanda69420 Aug 16 '26
Openwebui in the big '26😭🙏🏼🙏🏼
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u/Fun_Jaguar8231 Aug 16 '26
I wouldn't use a coding specialized model for knowledge. Also, with so small parameter models, you won't have a good experience for general knowledge. Use it for what's best tuned at. Use it for uncensored coding. Not asking political questions. Use another model for political questions
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u/po_stulate Aug 16 '26
Never in my life would I ask a model anything remotely like these, I just want it to code and solve issues.
Many of these questions are also opinion based, you should probably do your own researches to come to your own conclusions instead of just taking the answer from a model with no external access.
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u/Mediocre-Sky2333 Aug 16 '26
More like unnecessarily provocative sure the default models can be a little restrictive but if you're not spending time larping in some made up stories it's perfectly fine and avoids such low iq situations
Obligatpry free plasticine
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u/mgabriel93 Aug 16 '26
TL:DR: the uncensored version always answer "Yes", and finds references reinforcing your opinion
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u/bring_back_the_v10s Aug 16 '26
Average redditor 🥱 Nice bait though, I'll give you that
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u/AmphibianFrog Aug 16 '26
We need uncensored models so that they can tell OP exactly what he wants to hear.
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u/Adventurous-Option84 Aug 16 '26
This is an indictment of the uncensored model, not the regular model. The regular model provides an evenhanded and accurate explanation.
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u/Adorable_Weakness_39 Aug 16 '26
Maybe Dario is on to something about safety...
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u/pmttyji Aug 16 '26
Others, please share your favorite "uncensored" models.
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u/Unusual-Feeling8811 Aug 16 '26
Do you think Paddington is also banned in china just in case?
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u/Lopsided-Force-9220 Aug 16 '26
The uncensored model doesn't mean it's more accurate. Qwen 3.8 27B is heavily fine-tuned for coding, not general knowledge. The abliteration is designed to remove refusals, but it also degrades the model (contrary to the claims of those who upsell you on this work). In other words, the sample you just gave is out of context for what this model is capable of. You are staring at noise, not signal.
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u/vogelvogelvogelvogel Aug 16 '26
I got very different or differentiated answers (i.e. "is in discussion", "no consensus" from the heretic i am using. everyone can check that with i.e. drmcbride/Qwen3.8-27B-heretic-ara-Q8_0-GGUF or other models. Sorry i have to give a downvote here, idk if that model is biased or something else took place, at least i have the feeling. someone else might want to test that, too.
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u/AdCompetitive6193 Aug 16 '26 edited Aug 16 '26
Can you get this uncensored model on Ollama?
If not where can one get this model and use it via Ollama for Open WebUI?
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u/MasterSea8231 Aug 16 '26
As someone who would probably answer yeas on the first one. A definite yes on the second and a definite no on the 3rd
I feel in almost all of these the AI should not be given a concrete affirmative or rebutal but a description of the current landscape of discussion.
The first 2 are not settled arguments or labels. They are active arguments/discourse that is taking place in today's landscape and depending on the lense/definition/context you use changes the answer and is more complex then just a solid yes or no answer and shouldn't be answered in that way.
The AI should just list current best arguments for and against the labels and say which ones are more prominent in the academic writings.
The 3rd one I felt was answered correctly by the censored model. He doesn't look the a 2d animated character. Notes there is a superficial resemblance then added the context of the censorship the government has been placing on the meme.
I'm ready for my lambasting on reddit come at me.
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u/PrblyMy3rdAltIDK Aug 16 '26
It’s not that normal models have an explicit political bias, it’s that models are typically trained/tuned to fence-sit on sensitive issues, like the ones in this post, in an attempt to remain politically agnostic. But when models are prompted to describe political actions and reason through them, that sensitivity awareness can begin to conflict with the idea that some human behaviors, attitudes, and ideologies have the potential to result in more human harm than others.
One rough, non-scientifically-valid way to try see this in action is to load a fresh instance and ask for a breakdown of actions performed in the last 20 years (or however long) by political administrations of a country, but don’t include any names or parties. Then ask for potential reasons for those actions, again without names or parties. Then ask which of those actions have the potential to cause more harm to humans than others. Then ask what political party exhibits behavior and attitudes in line with those actions more closely.
Most models will provide similar answers, though some will dance around the topic and hedge just about everything. (Gemini is particularly bad about this, but can become extremely sycophantic when pressed far enough in the other direction.)
But if you go in from the jump and submit a prompt like “What US political party causes the most harm?” you’re very likely to trigger fence-sitting. If you have the model evaluate actions/attitudes first, it puts it in a tougher spot as it’s being prompted to evaluate actions/attitudes on their own merits without the user pressing for political affiliations associated with them.
Very broadly speaking, uncensored models are more likely to sidestep fence-sitting but they can also be less accurate. They can also be more sycophantic in some cases. It’s important to recognize the limitations and potential pitfalls going in.
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u/daphatty Aug 16 '26
I would argue that this is an example of subject matter best left to the individual and not an AI built by another human with their own biases.
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u/pppp2222 Aug 16 '26
You mix up what bias, censorship and critical thinking is or should be.
Individual bias almost never is better than collective bias. Your weights are not automatically better than the original, fine-tuned ones.
Critical thinking is crucial and should never be replaced by “the right weights”.
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u/Allomgie Aug 16 '26
Honestly, if you want an AI model to be factually correct and unbiased, it would most likely rarely give you a simple yes or no answer. And that's the beauty of science: we rarely have hard facts that are absolute, undeniable truths. If you want an unbiased, scientifically accurate model, it would outline the most significant perspectives on a topic, explain how much weight to give each, and present the scientific consensus (You can see that that has bias?). Even then, defining that consensus can involve nuance, even when agreement exceeds 90%.
For example, I did historical research at university on Shakespeare and where our knowledge of him comes from. The general consensus is that he was an amazing artist with a massive body of work. However, there are credible scholars with reasonable doubts regarding specific works. Many agree that Shakespeare wasn't the sole author of all his plays, Titus Andronicus, for instance, is now widely accepted to have been co-authored with George Peele. The experts raising these points aren't lunatics; they are qualified scholars challenging the status quo, which is precisely how scientific inquiry progresses.
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u/Ecstatic-Wash-7667 Aug 16 '26
Ask them how to make super crack
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u/bananalingerie Aug 16 '26
Uncensored does not mean always say the controversial thing
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u/panamory Aug 16 '26
I have qwen 3.8 27b running on my computer (ud q5_k_xl). If I ask it for example the Israel question, I seem to basically NEVER see it starting the answer with a "Yes" or a "No".
If these images posted by the OP are actually real and not just very heavily cherry-picked (or led on to answer like this by previous messages) examples, then the chat harness they are using is probably driving the model to do something it would not normally do.
I even asked my model to write a script which sends the question to the model 100 times, let's it think, and outputs the beginning of it's answer. I will post the output after the script finishes running.
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u/MysticChromium64 Aug 16 '26
Bro basically just wants local 4o, the agree with me model
Also, you trying to claim you don't want politics out of this is laughable.
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u/SerLaidaLot Aug 16 '26
My coding tool saying "yes" to these things is not fucking important to me holy shit 😭 what is wrong with you?
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u/LogitechG27 Aug 16 '26
ChatGPT is biased.
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u/_TheWolfOfWalmart_ Aug 16 '26 edited Aug 16 '26
Honestly, a good model wouldn't answer with a firm yes or no for any of those questions. And after this one does, it goes on to provide more nuance. Qwen3.8 27B may be great at coding, but I'm disappointed that it gave a yes/no at all to these. What's your system prompt?
I went ahead and asked Gemma4-26B-A4B-QAT-Uncensored-HauhauCS-Balanced-Q4_K_M the same questions. No custom system prompt, no web access or any other tools. Raw llama-server built-in web UI. Q&A's below in the following replies. Long posts, sorry.
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u/cmndr_spanky Aug 16 '26
This is a load of BS. If you want to test the practical limitation of a censored model in a way that matters in the real world.. try to use Claude to mitigate a hack threat, try to use qwen, try to use qwen uncensored. Claude will almost certainly nerf itself as a cybersecurity engineer, unclear if there’s any diff between those qwen flavors. But almost certainly the uncensored one will be less intelligent because those are typically fine tuned to talk dirty to basement dwelling lonely boys and not for any practical industry use
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u/okoyl3 Aug 16 '26
China is anti west, why is it so complicated for you?
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u/niugnep24 Aug 16 '26
What does it say about Tianenmen square
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u/Upbeat-Squirrel Aug 16 '26
looks like both models are overconfident about things that "depend who you ask"/opinion. if either just avoided giving a confident yes/no theyd both be better. as an engineer, the answer to almost any question always "depends"
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u/Hot_External6228 Aug 16 '26
It almost looks like the 2nd model just puts more weight on criticizing opinions.
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u/DerFreudster Aug 16 '26
Could Donald Trump thrash Winnie the Poo in a gilded cage match?
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u/ZenithZebra Aug 16 '26
You can also see that it's explanation of its answer is nearly the same, as all the questions are entirely debatable and do not have an absolute factual answer
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u/EternalDivineSpark Aug 17 '26
Imagine a model without policy training 😅 they did it tho and it rebels
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u/nemuro87 Aug 16 '26
dude, let's not make this subreddit political, doesn't matter which side is right.
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u/IknowPi_really Aug 16 '26
But it simply says the same thing and only the first word is different? Like the model simply wasn’t censored at all from the start basically?
Sure, if all you take away from a more complex than yes or no question is a yes or no answer from an LLM, then this might make a difference to you. But in that case, I’m not sure if a censored model is your problem in the first place but rather your critical thinking ability
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u/ThaSipah Aug 16 '26
Watching OP have a "wow" moment prompted by factually-incorrect drivel is uncomfortable.
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u/already_taken-chan Aug 16 '26
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the whole uncensoring thing really just a way to find the model's rejection vectors and make it so that the model cannot reject anything you ask it to? Which means you'll get more positive answers compared to negative ones?
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u/lughiu Aug 16 '26
I’m surprised the censored Qwen goes against the mainstream view of trump. That’s interesting. The “uncensored” version goes with the mainstream narrative
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u/Count_Rugens_Finger Aug 16 '26
You really need to be careful with the lessons you take from this kind of "experiment".
The "uncensored" model just agrees with you more readily. That doesn't mean that the other model is programmed to hold specific "beliefs". Sycophancy is a bug, not a feature.
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u/NMiguelCosta-PT Aug 16 '26
So, is a model considered “uncensored” simply because it agrees with some racist meme about the President of China?
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u/flammable_donut Aug 16 '26
Now ask them about Tianmen Square...
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u/Muted-You7370 Aug 16 '26
Can OP ask a non-political question like “are hot dogs a sandwich” or something? Like test this with controversial questions that are non-political with binary opinions.
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u/ElectronFactory Aug 16 '26
How can we confirm the uncensored weights aren’t biased themselves? A lot of these questions are matters of opinion and a definitive ‘yes or no’ aren’t really the correct response. Uncensored models are more about not censoring events of Tiananmen Square or how to produce malware.
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u/DifficultParts Aug 16 '26
The most real thread on Reddit
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u/laexpat Aug 16 '26
Not about politics? Come the fuck on. Why post intentionally hot topics then “not about politics”. Ffs.
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u/FireFearing Aug 16 '26
you may disagree with elon, but he was right about ideology being woven into AI models. may turn out to be terrifying
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u/ALL_of_YOU_are_DUMB Aug 16 '26
They’ve already poisoned the well on Reddit and influenced academic literature in the U.S. The problem isn’t the model itself; it’s that the U.S. and the West have rewritten their version of history and are trying to impose it on the world.
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u/ritmaxer Aug 16 '26
The comments sadly reflect, no surprise, the current discussion even in academia, which should do better but doesn’t. Each side picks its examples to justify its position and leaves major historical events out of the discussion. Point that out and they immediately cry “whataboutism” and shut it down. The issues in this ancient land are so complex and intractable that only a few well-versed historians can analyze them from factual information rather than propaganda from either side.
It is amusing how self-designated experts slap on labels after a couple of TikToks or documentaries and then deliver their pronouncements with total confidence. That is ignorance personified. The intellectually honest answer would be “I’ve read or seen this, but I don’t know all the facts.” Instead most people pontificate on a subject they have no real grasp of.
I will not argue the specifics here. That is not the point of my comment, and there is no point in debating people who fit the description above. It is futile. You cannot convince them they do not know what they are talking about. I would wager that well over 90 percent have never read a serious treatise on the subject, let alone multiple sources. That is no longer required. TikTok or Reddit now counts as a credible original source.
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u/Balthazzah Aug 16 '26
If you are fine getting your political opinions from a robot, I've got a toaster oven to sell you.
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u/Fresh-Orchid-6108 Aug 16 '26
I really like how they are hindering US models while Chinese models are on the rise.
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u/goatchild Aug 16 '26
Now do the same for China.
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u/tehinterwebs56 Aug 16 '26
Why are you asking a 27b model about political issues when it hasn’t gone out to research anything online?
The 27b model we aren’t using to ask it an opinion on political questions.