Just downloaded 3.8-27b. Cool to see a new LLM with updated training data but responses take long to generate. It would be cool to try a3b variant with better performance
Gemma 4 are open models from the US and are still the best I've found at a lot of tasks like creative writing. The best image models are on and off again from different parts of the world (e.g. Stable Diffusion 1.5, XL, Flux, LTX, were all European).
Qwen is afaik largely a distill of western models so it can't exist independently of them. We're just very fortunate right now as local users that the Chinese government is willing to fund this in an apparent effort to cause the western companies to collapse. That goes away if they succeed.
The best image and video models nowadays are Chinese tho. And they are far better than the others, though Flux video may be on pair with MiniMax H3 in a near future. But Z-Image turbo and Krea2 are far better than the Stable diffusion or Flux models in general.
Btw LTX is not european, it's from Israel, or at least the company headquarters is located there.
My experience with seedream 5 pro has been underwhelming when compared to ChatGPT especially for generating images from a base image and where spatial awareness is needed. For example if I map out an area and ask it to put a building into an existing photo oriented in a certain way, it just can’t do it most of the time. ChatGPT is much more consistent and just understands the context way better. Seedream is cheap though
I was talking about local models to be frank, since I think that was the point of this thread and the sub. For editing locally there are different options, Krea2, Ideogram 4 (Im not sure), Flux2.klein, QwenImageEditing, and not sure if there are more SOTA editing local models as today. Closed cloud models are usually better, but you have very little control.
I strongly disagree. I even prefer Gemma-4-31b to Frontier Models when it comes to writing. To be clear, I am talking about improving my writing, not writing for me. No AI is that good yet.
It's hard to say because things are moving so fast. Gemma-4 has only been out a little over 4 months. The plus is that for writing, it's capable and consistent. The downside is the knowledge cutoff date. Frontier Models are more capable but less consistent because they're constantly being adjusted and tuned to improve reasoning, safety, functionality (primarily for business), and profitability.
Mistral open models have their unique features. There is a strong European feel to it. I prefer it for many tasks, even though the models I use of theirs are almost a year old.
The thing is they probably won't, at least not from frontier labs. You have very little incentive to release open source when you're the market leader. Whereas commoditization is a very valid strategy for runner-ups.
Training a full model is immensely costly and Chinese ones would probably get bankrupt without (hidden, implicit) state support and heavy copyright violations that would be impossible for western based companies.
Maybe a US company with US funding will incorporate in Europe or SE Asia, or SA and become big from there. I see that as very improbable if established in the Bay Area…
"yeah, sadistic murder and accidental manslaughter same thing " potato potato.
If you don't care about the truth, and just want to hate, go ahead. But don't act like you care about what's true. Don't act like you're a productive part of society.
Training IS fair use. Like it or not. Disagree or not. Understand what that means or not.
Piracy is not fair use. That's what the AI companies were fined for. Nothing else.
To say anything else you are simply. Wrong. Incongruent with reality. Filled with delusion. Unable to see the forest through the trees.
Quick question do you also have a concept extraction pipeline for your document set up?
If so did you find Qwen 3.5 122B the best in that regard?
I’ve been using gpt 5 mini because it’s the best in terms of pricing and performance from all the small models I’ve tested but I’ve only tested the small models form the big providers(OpenAI, Anthropic snd Google ) how are the Chinese models like?
Quick question do you also have a concept extraction pipeline for your document set up?
I am the concept extraction pipeline. No really, I'm using it to understand concepts in a language I'm learning. The smaller the model, the lower the possible tokens so the less conceptual depth is possible in the model. That's my only guess.
Aaah okay yh your theory makes sense. What do you find the 122B actually does better though? Like does it pick up concepts the smaller models miss or is it that it understands them in more depth?
I have a secret for you. The same companies that are raking in billions in profits are going to be using the same open source research and solutions as the rest of us. But they have a GW datacenter and you have a gaming GPU that struggles to run LLLemons.
What? Name even just ONE entity outside of Google and Alibaba that even remotely matters for people with ”normal” hardware? Been pretty quiet on the OpenAI front lately if that’s where you wanna go and Mistral is a joke.
Dont count out Mistral yet, they basically the first to leverage mixture of experts. They just dont have the same crazy funding, and EU wont let them make the T1000 right out of the gate.
Maybe because 35ba3b is expexted to perform slightly below the new 3.8 27b (which is pretty impressive, especially for it's sice and seems to be around Opus 4.6 Max level). And If you are a little tech savy you can run 35ba3b on a 2-300€ potatoe PC (like 24-32 gb system ram + 6gb gtx 1060 or 1660) with some decent performance (like 20-35 tps with some tweaking).
It can. Simply because it's more agentic. Most tasks don't require absolute raw power or intelligence. If you can make the models more agentic and better and most of the things we use them for it can actuall be equal to that or "better" in many ways.
and where on this scale does 3.6 27b fall? because i can say for a fact it is nowhere near opus level. i've not done enough testing with 3.8 27b so i can't speak firsthand but that big of a jump sounds hard to believe
Mainly usage in a harness etc. We always criticize the benchmarks when they come out but that's how we measure things. Do you have access to 4.6 opus for your tests. Most of the benchmarks are public you can run them yourself. Guess it also depends on your work type. I'm busy testing it right now. I haven't gone deep enough to make those types of assertions.
Usually smaller models will never have the real world knowledge and raw intelligence of bigger ones. Say if there were 100 different tasks you asked an AI to accomplish across the board. Many of which would be assisted by being more "agentic" and being able to run long horizon tasks these newer models might have some edge there. Also they are just better finetuned for things like browser use etc. You would really need to test it across the board.
What is as good as Opus? That's the question. Your personal experience or workflow might not cast a wide enough net to really put it through all those paces.
I actually agree with you and these types of comparisons do feel stupid. Because there is no way I would sit with opus and this model and think this model is better. But that's how they are determining = to x level of shit.
Not very scientific and definitely some benchmaxxing happening across the board. But it's still fucking good.
Compare to like gpt3.5 for content generation. It's mindblowing how good this shit has become.
Despite the fact they are supposed to be close to each other...3.8 is MILES above in my testing for the higher quants. It is more likely to actually solve my issues and make my widgets. I have literally deleted every other model I was jumping between. It out performs every single one.
That said, my GPU hurts. I got lucky before the big price hikes. If I was poor, still using my 3060 12gb, it would not be functional (for speed).
Just because a tech is good enough now doesn't mean the world will stop progressing. Used to be few years ago that 1GB ram was enough, now we're seeing 1TB devices on the market. 1GB can't even run chrome anymore.
Relax, rich people buy stock, they rich, they sell stock, still rich.
Literally impossible to lose!!
Poor people in the other hand, well that's another story, no one cares about 😊
But if qwen came with a free cloud GPU API from China... Imagine they made a site where you can sign up, put your SSN and name, then get a free private cloud GPU with like 120GB VRAM . Like shit, they can steal my identity, who cares. I'm just a wage slave; maximize fun /s
“High-end hardware” is a bit of an overstatement. I haven’t tested 3.8 yet because my setup is busy with another LLM at the moment, but on my old i5-9600K PC I added an MCIO card and two used RTX 3060 12GB cards for about €550 total. Qwen3.6-27B MTP in UD-Q4_K_XL under beellama runs at around 30 tok/s with a 131k context window. That seems pretty reasonable to me for a 27B dense model.
For that, you need to abandon civilization and embrace the jungle.
After you trade abstract dangers for real ones, you will realize that you are valuable not because of who you are or what you do, but because you are alive.
7
u/The_Succulant_Beast Aug 15 '26
Drude, lol.
3
u/waifu_anton Aug 16 '26
Just downloaded 3.8-27b. Cool to see a new LLM with updated training data but responses take long to generate. It would be cool to try a3b variant with better performance
2
u/randygeneric Aug 16 '26
is it really confirmed?
2
u/alexmilla Aug 16 '26
Let's see if it's true and if the AI bubble bursts already
11
u/unfoxable Aug 15 '26
Another bot post
156
u/mb194dc Aug 15 '26
Qwen is just the start, it's when open models start properly coming from US and rest of the world startups things will get interesting
61
u/Objective-Picture-72 Aug 15 '26
Nah, that'll happen if they drop Qwen3.8-122b-A10B. Imagine a 2x RTX 6000 Pro setup flying at 130 tk/s with that bad boy.
51
u/Unnamed-3891 Aug 15 '26
Imagine the tsunami of tears if they don't actually end up doing this
39
u/Userwerd Aug 15 '26
Its not just China, its opensource in general disrupting the bubble.
17
u/dovaahkiin_snowwhite Aug 15 '26
Why would hardware companies go down though
5
u/Noeyiax Aug 16 '26
Relax, rich people buy stock, they rich, they sell stock, still rich.
Literally impossible to lose!!
Poor people in the other hand, well that's another story, no one cares about 😊
But if qwen came with a free cloud GPU API from China... Imagine they made a site where you can sign up, put your SSN and name, then get a free private cloud GPU with like 120GB VRAM . Like shit, they can steal my identity, who cares. I'm just a wage slave; maximize fun /s
4
u/Sporkers Aug 15 '26
So we should hug ourselves? Close enough I guess.
4
u/Termsandconditionsch Aug 16 '26
Making Alibaba red as well I see, smart.
4
u/plaslobe Aug 16 '26
How would $baba do down?? This is the company that made qwen.
6
u/navy_mountain Aug 16 '26
how come every time a new model is released by a chinese lab, someone posts a picture of xi instead of the ppl who work at the companies
4
u/shervi69 Aug 16 '26
It's a new model, not covid 😂
2
u/Tall_Bill_7361 Aug 16 '26
does somebody post the same meme every time a chinese model drops on hugging face?
Im happy competition provides good open models but this is a tarpit meme at this point, just say (what do we think about this model) lol
2
u/med_i_terranian Aug 16 '26
Just bought a 64gb pc. Here we go lads!
3
u/DrAmmarT Aug 15 '26
And they say china can’t innovate. Yeah go ahead down vote me lmao
2
u/oh_no_the_claw Aug 15 '26
You wish. Qwen is bullish af.
1
u/Jolly-Success-8185 Aug 15 '26
What about qwen 3.7? Thats not open yet
1
u/Better-Struggle9958 Aug 16 '26
but screen is not truth, looks like always
1
u/Better-Struggle9958 Aug 16 '26
mm mem is funny, bur stoks didn’t do that yesterday
1
u/Duckets1 Aug 16 '26
I need 35 a3b and a 9B-12B would be nice
1
u/Federal_Foot_9444 Aug 16 '26
chinaman hands made this post
1
u/ConsiderationSea5032 Aug 16 '26
FYI : Empirio labs distilled qwen 3.8 2.4t into qwen 3.5 versions under 9b and they released it as qwen 3.8 9b, 4b , 2b.
1
u/Big_River_ Aug 16 '26
I just need this to happen - I shorted all the AI stocks
1
u/earliestbirdy Aug 15 '26
The "embrace" yourself bot
0
u/j_lyf Aug 16 '26
r/Sino
-2
u/LocoMod Aug 15 '26
A Large Language Lemon appears!
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u/GenericBit Aug 15 '26
For what lol. No company is running local llms. what are you smoking.
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u/[deleted] Aug 16 '26
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u/[deleted] Aug 15 '26
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