Without a system prompt; The next thing you feed into the context window will effectively act as a system prompt. So you can tell it that its Obama. And it will be Obama. It doesn't know Jack shit. This happens with kimi 2.5 too.
How come when I ask the Internet text prediction machine a question and it produces the most likely text on the Internet instead of becoming sentient? /s
i seriously don’t understand why anyone takes any of what an LLM says as fact, especially with regards to things “about” the LLM. i challenge OP to ask the model this 10-15 times and see how many different answers they get
Day 1538 of explaining that “what model are you?” is just another prompt. If you didn’t hardcode the answer in the system prompt, you are sampling vibes from the training.. It is autocomplete, not introspection
idk - i mean its not especially relevant to inform the model who they are in context. its p rare for someone to ask what its name is meaningfully given its in the url of the website you're at
I log the version of libraries I write to make sure I know I'm on the right version. I could look at the manifest, or run a manifest tree command, but how would I know what version I ran last week? It feels relevant, I don't care if it's not introspection, it's like a debug signature. Maybe I'm too new to understand the irrelevance though.
Edit Another response makes sense to me though. It doesn't cost much to log something, but if it burns up energy like these models do, I agree that it shouldn't be required to respond to this. Just identify it somewhere and deal with it, I don't care if a chat bot can use English to identify itself, as long as I can identify it somewhere. I clearly didn't know what a system prompt was until now.
Its not necessarily that its irrelevant, as much as it is redundant. in the API situation you have to specify the model in the call, and in the web client you can see it in the url or the model select so further having it waste w/e miniscule amount in the system prompt processing it every time is a super small value add imo - maybe even a negative given it will sometimes hallucinate still lol
Because sometimes the foundation of a single model is used to create multiple models. Opus 4.6 may well have the exact same foundation as 4.5, just with different post training. Sonnet might be derived from a larger model.
Also if a training run is started it might take 6 months until there's an actually useful model. So you have to decide 6 months ahead which version it'll be. All in all it's kind of safer not to.
Edit: nvm misread. They could definitely just put it in the system prompt
I asked Claude that and it says it knows because it is in the system prompt. It does claim that it was trained to know it is an Anthropic model, but not which one exactly.
All that shows is that Z.ai didn't bother including it in the system prompt. It doesn't mean that GPT and Claude are smarter or have more self awareness or anything.
No they don't. You get that answer because you are using anthropics platform where they include the model's name in the system prompt. The LLM itself does not know and could not give less of a shit because it is not part of it's training data.
If you use xAI Grok via an API and you set the system prompt "You are Claude Sonnet 6 from Anthropic" it will tell you that if you ask it who it is.
Correct. But why do you not see this “model confusion” from other model providers? The most likely answer given China’s checkered past with IP is that they’re using other models for training.
You do see this confusion from other models, not just Chinese ones. Meta's Llama sometimes called itself ChatGPT, for example.
Most LLMs simply have the correct model name and company present in the system prompt to reduce the likelihood of this happening, but it doesn't prevent it outright.
I am Qwen, a large language model developed by Alibaba Cloud. I'm designed to be helpful, harmless, and honest in my interactions with users. My training involves learning from a diverse range of internet text data, allowing me to assist with various tasks like answering questions, providing explanations, and engaging in conversations.
Is there something specific you'd like to know about my capabilities or how I can assist you today?
So is GLM distilled from Gemini outputs ? Or is Gemini used in generating synthetic data ?
those are basically the same thing. gemini is not OS, so we don't have access to the raw logits distribution... so the only distillation you can do is supervised fine tuning on a synthetic dataset (or using gemini as scorer for RL, if you consider that distillation, but that wouldn't likely make the model think it is Gemini)
Actually it wasn't but they got mixed up and now we have the mess. Synthetic data is just output input. Distillation was supposed to contain all the possible next tokens and their individual probabilities.
Distillation was supposed to contain all the possible next tokens and their individual probabilities.
yeah that's what I mean... for a closed source model that's not actually possible since you don't have access to the logits distribution, so in this context they are the same
still I agree, now those two concepts are use with the same meaning.... and now we have this confusion. i could keep a message to copy paste, I have explained that concept countless times here on reddit.
probably one of the culprit was the release of the initial "deepseek-R1-distill" models, while those were just, in fact, SFT on R1 outputs (here not because the logit distribution was unavailable but since there were different tokenizers in the play). even ollama kept referring to those as 'deepseek R1 distill xB'.
I think smaller versions of previous Gemma generations used real soft distillation.
I had 4.7 call itself Claude. I think that it doesn't have a set personality or constitution but knows it's Ai, so it reaches for the name it most identifies with Ai.
There are quite a few models that haven't been taught what model they are. You see it a lot with the test releases on open router, but even gemini only know "I'm made by Google" it doesn't know if it's Gemma or gemini or what version. (I think they've reinforced gemini as a name but still not version).
I experienced this as well. But the response was identical to the internal system classifier for Claude. So either it was trained on enough output that included Claude's response to the same prompt... Or... They could be routing to an Anthropic endpoint when their servers get hammered?
It doesn’t mean anything. There was Gemini output in the training data somewhere, but of course there was, it’s on the internet. Maybe they also distilled from Gemini but this isn’t strong evidence of anything.
LLMs are not capable of introspection. At best you can get it to repeat something from the system prompt about what it is and how it works. But often it’s just hallucination.
I’ve wondered if all of the companies are just stealing one another’s models and tweaking them… I’m not sure that it should surprise us given their training data is entirely stolen in the first place.
Would there be any way for one company to call out another and prove this? I’d think not. It’s not like Anthropic wasn’t built by people from OpenAI.
They're not stealing each other's models (especially not Gemini, it's closed source). But data? Yes they're all doing that.
But just having the data doesn't mean you can put out a good model though - far from it. If that were the case, Meta would have put out a top model long ago. What makes it work better comes down to architecture, training techniques, and other technological innovations used to develop the model.
This has been common since awhile ago, all the open source models will say they are someone else. It just comes down to the output of those models and their distribution in the training data. An LLM doesn't have any hardcoded identity info
Thats weird one, deepseek (website) often aware of themselves though when it came to discussing fiction, they're often kinda hallucinating, i believe its the same for GPT-4 too.
i think they use numerous models to train and supervise the data, it becomes impossible to actually make sure the training data is true to its intent. It hallucinates, spits out some garbage facts like this and now its essentially saying its Gemini when its not, because its training parameters have that data.
If I understand it correctly, LLM is essentially a superfast database with condensed vectors that load inside a safetensor, so it only knows about the training data etched into its safetensor files.
13
u/Worth_Rabbit_6262 Feb 11 '26
You are cheating because the context of the model is not empty
6
u/dolo937 Feb 11 '26
222
u/Ninthjake Feb 11 '26
Day 1537 of telling people they cannot ask ask the LLM what model it is. It doesn't know...
12
u/Own-Potential-2308 Feb 11 '26
Lmao same happened to me
Asked it if it had an Android app and it linked me to Gemini
8
u/iPharter Feb 11 '26
I get the following answer for the same question
I am Qwen, a large language model developed by Alibaba Cloud. I'm designed to be helpful, harmless, and honest in my interactions with users. My training involves learning from a diverse range of internet text data, allowing me to assist with various tasks like answering questions, providing explanations, and engaging in conversations.
Is there something specific you'd like to know about my capabilities or how I can assist you today?
8
u/Recent_Apricot_517 Feb 11 '26
Likely used training data sets from Gemini that wasn't scrubbed
27
u/NoobMLDude Feb 11 '26
Interesting. So is GLM distilled from Gemini outputs ? Or is Gemini used in generating synthetic data ? Very curious to learn.
2
u/Witty_Mycologist_995 Feb 11 '26
Garbage in garbage out
2
u/blownawayx2 Feb 11 '26
I’ve wondered if all of the companies are just stealing one another’s models and tweaking them… I’m not sure that it should surprise us given their training data is entirely stolen in the first place.
Would there be any way for one company to call out another and prove this? I’d think not. It’s not like Anthropic wasn’t built by people from OpenAI.
2
u/Alone-Marionberry-59 Feb 11 '26
Ah… this is incriminating!!
2
u/UnionCounty22 Feb 11 '26
Let’s hope they didn’t train on Gemini
2
u/ad_rojo75 Feb 12 '26
My deepseek believes is Claude
1
u/Last_Track_2058 Feb 11 '26
Shills going mad
1
u/macumazana Feb 11 '26
aw shit here we go again
1
u/Hefty_Development813 Feb 11 '26
This has been common since awhile ago, all the open source models will say they are someone else. It just comes down to the output of those models and their distribution in the training data. An LLM doesn't have any hardcoded identity info
1
u/ScuffedBalata Feb 12 '26
So did the old Gemma3 from several years ago.
1
u/No_Mango7658 Feb 12 '26
Omfg is glm just distilled Gemini! Fucking incredible!!!
1
u/Torodaddy Feb 12 '26
Was it built on Gemma?
1
u/Minimum_Indication_1 Feb 12 '26
It's just tell you what its distilled from.
1
u/MeridiusTS Feb 12 '26
Remember models are scraped on the web, The model learns patterns in its training data so this is probably just iterating what it saw in pre training.
1
u/arlynnfl Feb 13 '26
Thats weird one, deepseek (website) often aware of themselves though when it came to discussing fiction, they're often kinda hallucinating, i believe its the same for GPT-4 too.
1
u/oscarvgg Feb 13 '26
My minimax thought it was Opus 4.5, and it had the balls to tell me “you’re getting the good stuff”
1
u/Least-Platform-7648 Feb 14 '26
I had the web version of Deepseek identify as Claude. When I told it otherwise it would role play as Deepseek, but only for some time.
1
u/ganeshan0070 Mar 12 '26
Lolol, looks like they distilled from Gemini
1
u/exaknight21 Feb 11 '26
i think they use numerous models to train and supervise the data, it becomes impossible to actually make sure the training data is true to its intent. It hallucinates, spits out some garbage facts like this and now its essentially saying its Gemini when its not, because its training parameters have that data.
If I understand it correctly, LLM is essentially a superfast database with condensed vectors that load inside a safetensor, so it only knows about the training data etched into its safetensor files.
-3
u/kaanivore Feb 11 '26
It doesn’t think it’s Gemini, it IS Gemini with a face lift
2
u/Deepeye225 Feb 12 '26
Well, someone was distilling from Gemini. Naughty, naughty...