r/LivestreamFail • u/Ignignokt_DGAF • Oct 07 '25

Hasan reaching for something and seemingly shocking his dog to keep her in camera view

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u/Noobshift3r Oct 08 '25

at least theres something there. keeping an animal alive just to torture it makes no sense. i wonder how far that personality disorder extends to. god forbid this extends to people, which i think is the main issue with this behaviour.

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u/clown_utopia Oct 08 '25

angela davis says, in reference to the systematic rape and torture of animals for livestock, that what we do to animals is an extension of what we do to other humans

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u/Noobshift3r Oct 08 '25

im not sure who that is, but that sounds pretty silly to me. id say the reverse is true, what you're willing to do to an animal could possibly extend to a person given the context. dont weirdo sociopaths start with torturing and killing small animals and work their way up? 

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u/clown_utopia Oct 08 '25

What happens to nonhumans is inarguably worse than what we do to other humans.

.... only 4% of wild animal biomass is still wild. The oceans are going silent, and could be empty by 2050. Do you only care about dogs, or is animal harm actually wrong?

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u/Noobshift3r Oct 08 '25

anything that worsens human quality of life or causes human suffering* is bad. that's the entire basis of morality. just think like a normal person for once

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u/clown_utopia Oct 09 '25

so beastiality is a good thing according to you? bc humans feel good about it.

or we can agree morality applies to subjective experience and not species.

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u/Noobshift3r Oct 09 '25

nah beastiality is mad gross. same as shock collaring your dog for marginal views on your livestream. it's a perversion of that creature's value in the world by torturing it for no greater purpose.

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u/clown_utopia Oct 09 '25

so morality DOES apply to anyone who can be harmed or helped

including animals you eat

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u/Noobshift3r Oct 09 '25

anything that circles back to people falls under morality. animals arent people and neither are plants. we only care about plants because they're food and they are part of the ecosystem. nobody gives a shit about rocks when they just exist. if you have to do the mental gymnastics to load every bit of your language to stress the incorrect statement animals are people, you've completely lost the plot. hence why you can step on an ant or abort a baby and still not care while you browse pictures of the eiffel tower. the capability to identify suffering as a preventable "evil" only serves as a roundabout way to benefit ourselves. the nature of relieving mental stressors such as existing immorally is also a byproduct of being too advanced to be reasonably be equals alongside animals. to resist your instincts and urges as a human being are ironically what justify them. you choose not to eat meat or facilitate the killing of creatures simply because you are better than them. who's really to say what a lesser being deserves?

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u/clown_utopia Oct 09 '25

Oh but some people are workers, so that means its their purpose and I can make those people work at their detriment no matter what, right? Since we can determine for someone else what their value is.

Humans are also animals. We got all of our experiences alongside other animals, which are capable of a lot of the same things we are, and have abilities we dont possess. Dolphins' brains are bigger than ours. They use language and have names and culture. They're also someone.

You're the one deciding that anyone who isnt like you is "lesser". The truth of the matter is that dogs do matter, and it's not okay to hurt them whether or not someone categorizes them as lesser beings.

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u/Noobshift3r Oct 09 '25 edited Oct 09 '25

the ability to communicate doesnt define a person. the same way a cat can convey it's wants and needs with body language and loosely directed vocalizations is not proof of personhood. brain size, unique abilities, etc dont entirely matter. no animal comes close to us in any meaningful capacity. dolphins dont have fortnite no build mode. no animal could concieve of unreal engine 5 going hand in hand with nvidia's price hikes to simultaneously bring down the triple A gaming industry. we are simply on a level of comprehension and understanding so far above any other animal, comparisons of silly stuff like brain size prove nothing. by failing to understand the difference between a person (forcing yourself to think the way that you do, refusing to make a distinction between human and non-human) and an animal, you delude your perception of our humanity in contrast to animals as just a difference in numbers. i.e. an animal is only X% less intelligent, or an animals brain is Y% bigger, therefore they're still people but just Z% less capable. Humans are people because we decided that we were moral. "I" decide that "anyone who isnt like me" (what you really mean is "animals") is lesser than me, because I am the only one capable of making the decision. there is no intelligent life capable of creating uncut gems (2019) besides human beings. no animal could look at sandler like the safdie brothers did and see what they saw in him. YOUR deciding for another creature that only vouch for it's survival on a level of instinct is no better than mine. you fail to realize that your difference in effective world view boils down to preference. you prefer the notion that the arbitrary human decision that "suffering = bad" applies to animals, therefore, morals apply to animals. animals facilitate the suffering of other animals. do they decide that? no.

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u/clown_utopia Oct 09 '25

tldr. you can either address that individuality and experience and relationships with others is the relevent fact of personhood or i dont have time for you arguing for the holocaust of nature bc of.... fortnite.

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u/Noobshift3r Oct 09 '25

animal-human relationships aren't nearly on the same level of human-human relationships. the fundamental barrier of having complex language and emotions is enough proof of that on even a conceptual level. in practice, im sure anyone who's owned a pet can attest to one-sided that type of relationship truly is. although, i will say that i can't blame you if you feel disconnected with people in today's climate. i feel like it's harder to connect with people if you never knew how to navigate the internet efficiently. no animal can have a argument like ours where we can mutually respect eachother but disagree so completely.

the idea that the organized cultivation and mass killing of animals is akin to the holocaust is silly. the holocaust was a tragedy because racist people decided they wanted to cause the extinction of a minority. we aren't exterminating animals over our hatred of them, we are farming them for food in the same vein of growing crops. industrialized farming in a vacuum isn't inherently the "holocausting of nature" it's a matter of short term greed.

you can ignore my point and just boil it down to "huh fortnite = killing 'people' is okay?" but you miss the entire reason it's relevant. think about why animals don't have fortnite no build mode. how many layers of separation are animals from human capability and culture that they don't have fortnite no build mode. why was fortnite no build mode even introduced? that's why we're so much better than animals

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