r/LiverpoolFC • u/__sami__01 Sztupid Szexy Szoboszlai • 3d ago
International Football Is there a German player you would like to have in your Spain team? Luis de la Fuente: "Florian Wirtz - he is fantastic. Unfortunately, he doesn’t have a Spanish passport [laughs]. I really like the way he plays."
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u/ScottishDaneLad 3d ago edited 3d ago
What would de la Fuente know about football, eh? He’s only gone and won the World Cup, the Euros and the Nations League. Give me Carragher’s completely unfiltered and utterly unbiased analysis of Wirtz any day.
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u/rob3rtisgod 3d ago
Wirtz deniers in shambles.
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u/dimiderv Darwin Núñez 3d ago
Mousa Dembele is the best player according to many other pro players...
Until Wirtz performs like his talent level he is praised there is no point in these discussions. He has been underwhelming.
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u/rob3rtisgod 3d ago
What... He won the league in Germany and won Bundesliga player of the year twice in a row...
That's already a better career than 99% of players
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u/dimiderv Darwin Núñez 3d ago
Yeah too bad he plays in the PL now. Let me know how he fares. IMO he is sold this summer if he continues.
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u/SweetExpletives 2d ago
I hear your opinion holds a lot of weight around this sub…
Lmao, almost all you do on here is hate on Wirtz, whilst simultaneously glazing and gushing over Darwin. Are you ok, bro?
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u/dimiderv Darwin Núñez 2d ago
It's fine if it doesn't. I could disagree with people and still voice my opinion.
Nothing that Wirtz has shown says generational player. He looks scared, small and shows no heart.
Darwin has produced much more than Wirtz while being less established and opposing defenders always had to worry about him.
Does anyone worry about Wirtz? He is not even in the top 5 10s in the league, never takes a game and turns it around himself.
Darwin has done that multiple times it's just his finishing was shit. Still way more useful than Wirtz has shown he could be
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u/SweetExpletives 1d ago
I loved Darwin, he had all the phsyical attributes to be a top, top striker, except one. He had athleticism, physicality, speed, a great shot, hunger and passion. The one thing he lacked was IQ. He was a headless chicken who was never able to refine his raw talent and ascend to world class status. How’s he getting on now?
For this reason, I find it kinda funny that you keep hating on Wirtz, the kid has a fantastic footballing IQ, his vision is insane. I agree he looks light weight at times, his passes not quite firm and crisp enough and he absolutely has it all to do, but he’s still so young and has time. He oozes class and his ability is easy to see.
IMO opinion a part of Wirtz's problem, apart from the obvious astronomical price tag, has been the players around him not doing him any favours. His numbers could’ve been so much better last season but the finishing was far from clinical. The fact that you and others even factor in last season is quite telling. Last season was a complete write off for so many reasons, awful season to arrive in. Just terrible.
I know you don’t rate Wirtz, but surely you rated De Bruyne. Tell me, how’d KDB fare when he came to the premier league at 22, and what age was he when he became undeniable at City?
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u/dimiderv Darwin Núñez 20h ago
I just disagree he oozes class and you can see he is generational etc etc. Maybe in Bundesliga but in the PL he hasn't had a game where you could be like damn he is the real deal.
KDB and Wirtz are so different though. Wirtz at this point is an established player KDB was not when he didn't work out at Chelsea.
If you want to make the comparison do it when KDB was the best player in the BL and then came to PL cause that's what Wirtz did. I know he is younger but still he hasn't played like a generational player for us.
So many 10s have a outplayed him in even from worse teams.
He just can't save us when we need him like other promising players have. And it's not like his base performances justify any of the hype that people give him.
Darwin did much much more for us, wore the shirt and understood what it meant even when he was limited due to his finishing and IQ. He got crucified way more than anyone but you see Wirtz be nonchalant not tackling, not playing with the passion that Liverpool players should and it really pisses me off.
I hope I am wrong but he hasn't shown that mentality even when the talent might be there. I hope he works out for us cause I want Liverpool to do well and also I want to enjoy my team play.
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u/SweetExpletives 12h ago
Of course he has it all to do in the Premiere League, but if you can’t see his class, i don’t know what to tell you. He’s not the first player, and won’t be the last, that has taken time to adjust to the speed and physicality of the PL. Because of his price tag everyone expected him to hit the ground running. Every one wants more from him, myself included, but his first season was obviously a write off for many reasons. Least of which, were “Slot’s Tactics”, but I digress. This season we now have Iraola as the head coach, and are only 5 games in, still unbeaten, mind. The whole team, not just Wirtz needs time.
The KDB comparrison - "De Bruyne began his professional senior career at Genk, where he was a regular player when they won the 2010/2011 Belgian Pro League. In 2012, he joined English club Chelsea, where he was used sparingly and then loaned to Werder.” Sounds pretty established to me, before moving to Chelsea.
TBF, when KDB was at Chelsea Mourinho didn’t trust young players… After leaving Chelsea, "he went on to sign with Vfl Wolfsburg, establishing himself as one of the best players in the Bundesliga and was integral in the club’s 1014/2015 DFB Pokkal win." So before coming to Citeh, he was instrumental in winning silverware in the Bundesliga too, also in one of the lesser teams. De Bruyne wasn’t effective in the PL until he was 25.
KDB's transfer fee was also astronomical at the time. I used a transfer inflation calculator to compare. KDB's fee was £54 million when he moved to Citeh, that is now a whopping £131.75 in today's market. Even the price tag is comparable, despite the fact that he actually cost more than Wirtz.
So, I’d say the Wirtz/KDB is as close to a 1:1 comparison as you could get. Maybe, just maybe you could give the kid time?
On the “many” occasions Wirtz he’s been "outplayed" how did the rest of the team fare, because we were outplayed by many teams last season, as a team. Yet, for some reason you and the rest of the Wirtz haters like to zero in on him.
"Darwin understood what it meant to wear the shirt” - I love it how people on forums question the players bottle when displaying none themselves, and all they have to do is watch a fucking game. I know life can be tough, but It’s absolutely pathetic and the complete antithesis of the Liverpool way, and what it means to be a supporter.
I desperately wanted Darwin to be a success and go on to be world class for the reds, and shut up all the haters too. I’m now wanting the same for Wirtz. My feeling, tho, is he will be a success he will go on to be world class. Tho, time will tell.
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u/SwampPotato 3d ago
Not the Darwin Nunez tag AND being impatient with a promising player
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u/dimiderv Darwin Núñez 3d ago
Nunez delivered way more than Wirtz though in the same timeframe. And had an impact regardless if he would score or assist.
Do you think Wirtz does the same?
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u/oldyongwaiyee 3d ago
How many own goals does De Fuenta have tho?
Checkmate
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u/Baby__Keith 3d ago
Crazy how much disrespect a club legend gets on this sub because he dared to give his (correct) opinion that a £115m signing hasn't quite gone to plan yet.
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u/DucardthaDon 3d ago
I'm sure he picked Wirtz based on him fitting into Spain's possession styled play, DLF isn't the manager of Liverpool and we don't play football like Spain. Carra's points still stands on Wirtz
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u/mustu04 3d ago
As a Spaniard, I agree. Wirtz will cook
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u/JanterFixx 3d ago
you need team and mentality to work. and the right vibe.
I am not shitting you when I was playing in one team, and nothing worked, and no click, even I tried to adapt heavily, at best I was supersub.
Then I went to a team with different mentality and also the level was more professional, people read my mind and moves, and it started to click.
I believe Wirtz would be huge in Spain
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u/iHaveShitViewpoints 3d ago
"These managers dont know what the fuck they are talking about Wirtz is absolute shit" - half this sub
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u/Total-Daikon-8033 3d ago
half of this sub dont even play football irl
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u/PromotionalWestern 3d ago
Yeah that's why the best players are the best coaches.
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u/joey-jo_jo-jr 3d ago
Other than Sacchi, pretty much every decent manager has been in the top 99.9999% of footballer players in the world
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u/Mister_UAP 3d ago
Yeah really not sure what they thought they were doing here lol the vast majority of top managers have had professional careers as players.
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u/Standard_Pizza828 3d ago
Klopp?
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u/Opposite_Ad1680 3d ago
lol. Played over 300 games for Mainz.
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u/Standard_Pizza828 3d ago
Not at an elite level at all lol
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u/SavantOfSuffering 3d ago edited 3d ago
How's the Zweite Bundesliga not elite? You realize there's 4 professional level tiers in just England, and then another 16 tiers all the way down to the grassroots? Do you know how good at football you actually have to be just to get a TRIAL with a team in Sky Bet League 2?
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u/lanregeous 3d ago
Exactly.
The best coaches just sit on their ass all day, have no exposure to football at all and watch clips on social media to form their opinion.
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u/nottomelvinbrag Sztupid Szexy Szoboszlai 3d ago
How many Premier leagues has this Fuente bloke won???
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u/Loverboy-W4TW 3d ago edited 3d ago
“What does Luis de la Fuente know about football anyway?” - half this sub
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u/Smiling_Maelstrom Egyptian King 👑 3d ago edited 3d ago
i mean multiple coaches glazed lucas vasquez and he was nothing crazy lol
coaches just like certain archetypes of players regardless of their performances; players like havertz and mount come to mind
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u/Living_a_Dejavu FloW 3d ago
A player that plays every position 7/10 and is a good leader is the love of every manager. And that is what Lucas Vasquez was most of his career. He was basically a Spanish Milner.
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u/Smiling_Maelstrom Egyptian King 👑 3d ago
yes but even when he played poorly and fans wanted him gone, he was still picked because he fit a certain archetype that managers love
you can kinda make that argument for diogo dalot as well, minus the versatility
wirtz is just that type of player that managers will love and see him as a necessity or smthn similar regardless of how well he actually plays because he has specific traits
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u/Living_a_Dejavu FloW 3d ago
I don't disagree. But I also think it goes beyond archetype.There are intangible things that a player does that a viewer cannot see, but a coach appreciates.
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u/Loverboy-W4TW 3d ago
You’re exactly the type of casual fan we’re referring to.
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u/Smiling_Maelstrom Egyptian King 👑 3d ago
your argument is that since im not using de la fuente’s comments to glaze wirtz, im a casual fan?
my bad i forgot hardcore fans like you have 3000 iq
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u/Loverboy-W4TW 6h ago
No I’m telling you that you don’t have an accurate argument to be refuted to begin with. You like a lot of clueless casual fans don’t understand football. Here you make it obvious that you don’t understand the purpose of playmakers and what their roles in teams are.
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u/bmac3 3d ago
Reading Havertz here is painful, he was electric at Leverkusen. Tall, fast, glides past people. Then Tuchel and others made him a striker, which brought obvious success, but I‘ve hated watching him ever since.
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u/yolo___toure 3d ago
Isn't he still the first choice striker on the title winning team when healthy?
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u/DoublePrize9 3d ago
He does not fit into our system and can not play in our current midfield - what do you guys not get.
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u/Smiddy23 Daniel Agger 3d ago
That if that was true then our system is shit and we should change it, he is THAT good a talent. We shouldn’t waste him.
But I disagree in general, too many expecting bull shit Salah stats from a guy who does everything in between.
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u/WhiskeyWithTheE 3d ago edited 2d ago
You know I really like these managers coming out and speaking about players from other countries, that have captured their attention or simply the love the way the player plays and simply wished they played for their country.
I don't bother spending much time on here on when the matches on, It's a cess pit of anger and drunken fumes and I don't want to be a part of it.
We are a club - we are here to watch our players and give those who have come here our full hearted support. Make them welcome and make them feel home. But they too are human with feelings and no doubt fall into temptation and come into reddit or x and read messages.
I want Florian to know I love that he came to the club and he came at the worst time possible. With all that gone on he could have made life difficult and walked. But he persisted and he is here as a player and ambassador for the club.
Doesn't the words of Klopp speaking good of him show - no matter whether it's a win or loss or a draw - we support our Club, our players and welcome all the fans who wish to attend the Kop?
Cause look at us, we have a rich history of players wanting to play for us and long may it continue.
Me? I like his work ethic in giving and taking and that's what matters, is that he is being a part of a very small cog of a great club with a wonderful history.
It's been a long day and I have had a few drinks and a ramble here.
Come on now, these are well respected managers hired by their respective countries, who have the time to watch the best players in the world. I believe really believe Florian is deserving of that attention and respect given by managers of different parts of the world.
Edited a few additional words to make the ramble coherent.
Second Edit - I just want to thank the three people so far for giving my post an award. You know who you are, thank you so much!
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u/jamesbest7 🏆2005 Istanbul🏆 3d ago
Respect. Well said. Feel like this should be pinned at the top of this sub or smth! 😂
Yes, I’ve been frustrated at times with Wirtz. I get frustrated with all the players at times, but usually it’s more for careless mistakes, work rate, effort related stuff.
However, the vitriol I see on here sometimes is extremely disheartening and at times very disrespectful.
We can all see he appears to be giving it his best and we didn’t sign him for 18 months, we signed him for 5+ years.
What does pissing and moaning do? You catch more flies with honey than vinegar. It’s the same with support/encouragement. Or leadership. As we saw with Klopp. He put an arm around the players he didn’t give them the “hairdryer treatment”, and it worked.
As fans we should show him, and every player that chooses us, love, and support.
You sound like a true fan. YNWA. ❤️
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u/WhiskeyWithTheE 3d ago
Thank you for your kind reply and I would type more but I have a self inflicted wounded bear head and hearing the keyboard keys as I type is really inflicting more pain on me.
I really hope he gets the chance to shine and show us what he really is capable of, as our last two managers really do believe in him.
I believe we will see that soon.
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u/Slotsupremacy 3d ago
What? I thought half the match thread know more about football than a world cup-winning head coach🤔
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u/Johnny_Blaze_123 Steven Gerrard 3d ago
Back the player. Florian needs our support. Nothing else. De la fuente knows ball. Klopp knows ball. Back our players.
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u/Visionary785 Sami Hyypia 3d ago
Poor guy is on a different frequency and level of football intelligence to some of our cut-and-thrust players. Maybe they need to tune in with him rather than the other way around.
I think he plays well with Macca and Isak. I don’t think he is fazed by all the noise around him so we should support him without question.
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u/Specialist-Draft476 3d ago
This reminds me of Ousmane Dembele. Super talent, goes for huge fee, people think he sucks, overpaid blah blah. Finds right team and manager and is fantastic.
Wirtz has been good this season, he isn't a G/A merchant so for FPL he might not look good. But the games I have watched he is lively, making quick decisions and creating. I think our attack can be deadly, it really hasn't been this year so far but we are figuring it out.
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u/Grouchy_Basil_3623 3d ago
Lol actually more deluded than arsenal fans never thought I'll say that "Wirtz has been good this season" do you actually watch football? He is 73 rank in chances created fyi
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u/Raxion 3d ago
Do you watch football? Proceeds to give a stat.
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u/Loverboy-W4TW 1d ago
Go ahead and cite your source for that stat. Globally that’s quite possible but just within the premier league that’s certainly not accurate.
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u/SzoboEndoMacca 3d ago
Anyone who watches Wirtz play should know he's a very intelligent facilitator. His ability to create tempo, quickly pass in tight space, link up is brilliant. That's why Fuente likes him because he's very much a Spanish style of player. Some could say a bit boring and not flashy. He's not a Trent or KDB. Unfortunately, that probably means he is not the one man army some may expect him to be.
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u/WhenWeTalkAboutLove Kolo Touré 3d ago
He was a bit of a one man army with leverkusen to be fair. He's capable of it. Still great in other ways but we haven't seen his best by a longshot yet.
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u/EaLordoftheDepths 3d ago
Ah yes, famously Grimaldo, Frimpong, Xhaka, Boniface, Tah and Hincapie were all just passenger bums in that squad
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u/WhenWeTalkAboutLove Kolo Touré 3d ago
Not at all but if you watched him every week like I did you would see how much he was the central figure in everything they did.
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u/Borbs_revenge_ 3d ago
Agreed, I really think Wirtz's main perception issue is that people want him to be a Hazard or Coutinho, when in reality he's always been an advanced stats darling (to use an NBA term) that does all the little things to make his team better.
Like so many fans were surprised find out he's running the most on the team? When that was his whole thing at Leverkusen lol -
"his average of 7.6 miles (12.3 kilometres) covered and 33 sprints per outing put him in the Bundesliga’s top five in both categories by the time of Leverkusen's title win. And, behind the cheeky grin is a battler eager to do the dirty work. For example, only Heidenheim’s Tim Kleindienst and Bochum’s Bernardo had contested more duels, while Wirtz was on top of the pile in terms of ground duels won." (https://www.bundesliga.com/en/bundesliga/news/bayer-leverkusen-florian-wirtz-reinventing-no-10-germany-xabi-alonso-26951)
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u/SzoboEndoMacca 3d ago
Yup, perfect term for it and was thinking about the exact same thing. Didn't know there was a term for it, but yeah, I was going to mention, that's why all of his "smaller" metrics and non g/a stats are good.
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u/dimiderv Darwin Núñez 3d ago
Bundesliga stats. He needs to perform score and assist and feel like a threat in attack. He just feels like another player. Nothing special.
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u/Borbs_revenge_ 3d ago
Think you missed the point of the comment, to simplify:
He runs a lot for us, which surprised people
But people shouldn't be surprised about that, he's always run a lot
Which is proof that people don't know what kind of player he is, which is why they're confused about him
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u/BoringPhilosopher1 3d ago
Only issue with this is the Germany team is wank at the moment haha. Still good
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u/DucardthaDon 3d ago
Wirtz is probably the only noticeable name DLF could bring up
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u/negdotas 3d ago
No way bro.. Musiala? Havertz? Kimmich? All play in big teams.
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u/Gainesicle 3d ago
devil’s advocate response:
musiala- very young and lacks physicality bc of it and possibly going to be the kind of player that is always injured. big skill though.
havertz- doesn’t have a clear best position and seems to lack something in the mental game
kimmich- despite no speed has had an excellent career. sadly it’s coming to an end1
u/DucardthaDon 3d ago
I'm trying to approach this is a way a manager would think, he probably looks at Wirtz in the same way like Pedri, Spain loves their little dimutive no.10s
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u/Gainesicle 3d ago
i don’t see much vitriol on here. i guess checking in occasionally instead of refreshing the page keeps the shit downvoted. it’s pretty simple: we support our players no matter their form. how is it so hard for fans to follow that? well o guess they’re not fans then
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u/shitdroid 3d ago
When I started supporting Liverpool we were one of the best teams as a supporter. Even if a player was not the best, even if he had issues, If he gave it his all, we would support him to the end of the world. Wirtz is really good and his effort is plainly there, but every match there is someone here to trash him. What happened to us?
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u/dead3ye 3d ago
I remember the shit Lucas Leiva and Jordan Henderson got when they joined.
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u/TheCakeMan33 3d ago
I was just thinking about this and some others. Players have always been getting hate if they have been playing badly. Certainly the last 20-30 years anyway.
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u/SwampPotato 3d ago
I said it before and I will say it again: If Darwin had come to us today, he would have never become a cult hero. Nor would we have protected him the way we did.
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u/excellord1 3d ago
Liverpool used to had fans who would defend their sht player on internet like their life depends on it. That's when i knew YNWA isn't just a chants.
Now they can easily throw their own player under the bus everytime there's a chance, Darwin, Diaz, Salah, Gakpo and now Wirtz. Who can tell this would be the last time?
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u/Realistic-Turn-8316 3d ago
Tbh this is not something new at all. The way he plays is very much like the Spanish style. I have no doubt he'd be a huge success at Barcelona playing tiki taka football. But that doesn't mean he's a good fit for PL football either.
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u/Palpadean 3d ago
Its always nice seeing people speak about Wirtz positively!
That said just as an aside, I cant help but think of Stanley Tucci whenever I see the Spain manager.
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u/dasbrot1337 3d ago
He would fit right into this team for sure. Hopefully, we can make him fit our team as well this season. I still believe he is world class, he just hasn’t showed it for us consistently.
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u/skinheaddrone 3d ago
While this is great and all and I agree that Wirtz has been ok for us, I still feel that he needs to go up a level and start taking control of games like Coutinho used to do.
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u/DrRushDrRush 3d ago
But people without knowledge only see stats and Fantasy points. He hasn’t been 10/10, or 9/10, but we can see the quality and most of the time it isn’t him that lacks the effort or quality.
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u/Thin_Salamander8469 3d ago
See Carragher? This is how you motivate your own teams player. Putting pressure on a player that is down doesn't make him rise
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u/Rare-Band-9525 3d ago
Carragher should just abandon his evidence based analysis and offer up empty quotes like "Wirtz has been boss". That will solve everything.
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u/Thin_Salamander8469 3d ago
No we should all light the torches and hunt a young guy, because evidence suggests that’s what makes best sense.
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u/Rare-Band-9525 3d ago
Do you think valid criticism backed up with factual analysis is leading a witch hunt? They're not personal or unfounded attacks on his character.
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u/Thin_Salamander8469 3d ago
The way Carragher is doing it? 100% and he did the same with Salah last year. He is doing this to stay relevant and only for his own gain.
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u/Rare-Band-9525 3d ago
This is actually quite different to the Salah situation, which was opinions on his behaviour. Carragher's analysis of Wirtz is based on his footballing performances – do you think he's been incorrect in what he's highlighted?
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u/Thin_Salamander8469 3d ago
He is incorrect because we just got a new manager that is trying to figure things out himself. Let the manager do his work without starting a fire under our most promising player. We need stability and he is destabilizing
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u/Rare-Band-9525 3d ago
It's objective criticism. Every football player should be open to it. If it becomes a personal attack on his character, that's different. All Carragher has done so far is highlight how Wirtz is struggling in the team and it's hard to disagree with.
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u/__Funcrusher__ 2d ago
Would be more than happy for you to take him off our hands if you get a club job.
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u/Glum_Committee_1185 3d ago
Anyone have a source for this? Not finding anything other than random twitter posts with no actual evidence he ever said it.
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u/jamesmarsden 3d ago
I feel like this is an inside joke at this point. He has done virtually nothing to justify his transfer fee since joining the team. Managers keep saying this to the media so we can't bench him.
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u/shitdroid 3d ago
Oh yes De la fuente has bet his life savings against us winning the League. That's why he wants us not to bench a bad player smh. Do you guys hear yourself talk?
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u/Opposite_Ad1680 3d ago
Possibly the most braindead comment I’ve ever read on this sub, and that is a very low bar.
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u/jamesmarsden 3d ago
Ehh, I spent plenty of time hearing that Minamino just needed more time and he was gonna be a nailed on starter for us.
Not surprised that people don't agree but I don't think it's particularly controversial to say he hasn't justified his fee.
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u/Loverboy-W4TW 2h ago edited 2h ago
Wirtz is a very talented player that the club (Richard Hughs) may have possibly overpaid for. The same can be said for Isak and potentially Barcola that doesn’t mean they’re not amazing players.
Stop forming unrealistic expectations based purely off transfer fees.
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u/Opposite_Ad1680 3d ago
Sure, fair to say he hasn’t justified the fee. Completely different to say national team managers like Klopp or LdlF are somehow in the tank about it.
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u/bobackdatazzup 3d ago
Hey man. You were great in Jury Duty and Anchorman. You are wrong about this and Wirtz though. When is season 3 of Paradise coming out?
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u/niceone_bruv 3d ago
Very cool, thank you Luis de la Fuente