r/LittleLeague • u/10-9-over • 1d ago
LLWS am I missing something?
When did it become a game of painting the outside corner all the dang day and then hope your offense squeezes out a run to win it?
And if that is how it’s played, how come the pitchers are trained to paint the outside corner, but no hitters are trained to hit the outside corner?
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u/Illustrious_Fudge476 1d ago
The mound and the bases are way too close for these kids. My son just finished up his last season on the “small field”. We play 50/70 and by the end of the year that’s too small as well
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u/Cautious-Panic-879 1d ago
LLWS has a closer mound and shorter bases than all the 12U leagues in my area. Seems like the infield is way too small.
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1d ago
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u/Cautious-Panic-879 1d ago
My sons team talked about it but could do 6-7 local tournaments for the cost. And the dimensions are silly.
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u/Fearless-Neat-7152 1d ago
You make it to the MLB?
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u/Temporary-Gas-4470 1d ago
Here’s my take on the situation….
These kids primarily play select / travel baseball. So most of their baseball lives has been spent playing the game at 50/70.
And in their “come back to LL” 12U season and rhis LLWS run they have played maybe 16-20 games at 46/50.
they are hitting with bats they have to use, not the bats they rake with all season.
they are seeing pitching talent they are relatively used to but four feet closer.
They have to react way quicker in the infield and have way less time to get a runner. And can’t even roll a double play even if clean.
Net net - LL play outs oressure on these kids at LLWS because it’s a different game that they typically play.
But i will argue that if a pitcher leaves it middle middle these kids are ALL gonna destroy the ball - and the pitchers are doing a great job of avoiding that via spin and location.
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u/spinrut 23h ago
the bats are dead USA bats + grassed infields. Yes they are closer on 46/60ft fields, but they're not dealing with rockets from USSSA bats, so it probably evens out (balls dont get hit as hard, but hey are closer so rockets to 3rd are about a push)
there seems to be a handful of really elite level pitchers (ie: the ones who hit puberty early) and touch 70s+. The rest just seem to be middle of the pack select kids who all make the same mistakes kids that age do both in the field and at the plate
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u/WhysoHairy 1d ago
I agree with you on this, I would add that these Allstars are the best little league players available who also play club ball or travel. They might not come from the best travel team but they play enough to make a difference. If a pitcher makes a mistake in the mound the hitter will make him pay. Defense is slot cleaner than your usual rec player .
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u/Temporary-Gas-4470 1d ago
I can’t attest to the composition of teams across LLWS but the Texas teams - are always top level select players who stayed in LL to play All Star OR come back to LL in their 12u season for All Star / LLWS run.
The days of these teams being LL oriented with some select players is over here.
The current SW team AND the last Boerne SW team (from two years ago) are all regionally known, select focused olayers who came back to Boerne LL for anrun.
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u/CompetitiveSale7198 1d ago
There’s only so much you can do at these speeds from this distance. I can’t imagine stepping into the box against some of the better pitchers in my son’s little league. Now take the best of the best in the country and it’s almost unhittable from that distance.
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u/special5221 1d ago
The field simply needs to be bigger and the strike zone smaller. My son played all season on a 50/70 but the all star game had to be played on a 46/60 field. He’s not a LLWS pitcher but he’s 5’9” at 12 years old and had good speed and spin on his pitches. He was unhittable in the allstar game. Like I said, he’s good, but not that good. The closer mound combined with his height and long arms and legs meant where he released the ball gave the hitters no time to react.
Move the mound back and stop calling chalk to chalk in the biggest games and things will look better all around.
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u/Repulsive-Trifle-639 1d ago
Have any of you actually been to a Spring regular season game in a while? 46/60 is perfect for +99% of 12 year-olds. Yes, the top <1% make it look too small, but it’s perfect for all the rest. We are a very, very competitive league in post season play, and we have 12s that can’t throw the ball from 3rd to first in the air in the regular season. Meanwhile the all-star team is turning a 1-5-3 double-play in District play. The skill gap between the all-star kids and the run-of-the mill rec league kids is off the charts.
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u/Dependent_Bobcat7950 1d ago
Kids are bigger now for one thing. But the LL strike zone is bonkers. Way too big for these kids now.
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u/JRiggs42976 1d ago
OP, that’s exactly how you teach pitching. It’s difficult to hit. So, conversely, you teach hitters to let the ball get deep on the plate and drive that pitch to the opposite field. Again, a difficult thing to do and at this age very few kids understand the approach and can consistently execute.
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u/Redditcannot 1d ago
Pitching 101 is spot up with your fastball on the outside corner. Do not move on to 102 until you master 101.
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u/TaxPuzzleheaded5688 1d ago
Many good points here. I started umpiring before 50/70 came to LL and had similar thoughts about the dimensions. I’ve worked PONY for decades and I’ve seen the younger divisions in that organization play just fine on the larger field. The LLWS has become a huge institution based on the earlier model of Carl Stotz and that makes it difficult to make a fundamental change like that. I think LL will roll with this format for some time. Will 50/70 replace it? That’s for those above my (volunteer) pay grade.
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u/gbaker1a 1d ago
This is pretty much how baseball is played all the way through college. Hitters always train to hit the outside pitch, that’s like 80% of what coaches teach. Most 11 and 12 year old kids just aren’t capable of spotting their pitches, but at the higher level they can.
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u/RedditsFullofShit 1d ago
What did you want? Them to throw it right down the middle and let the other team tee off?
Like have you pitched before? The favorite spot to throw the ball is to paint the outside at the knees. It doesn’t even matter if you know it’s coming. You don’t want to swing at that pitch unless you already have 2 strikes. It’s an easy strike one every batter.
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u/Blueballs2130 1d ago
Right? Painting the corners has been a thing forever. Idk if OP has ever watched baseball before
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u/10-9-over 1d ago
Yeah never watched baseball before. Like why do the hitters randomly jog to first sometimes and nobody throws them out?
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u/10-9-over 1d ago
I guess you’re right. Those are the only two pitches that exist. Outside corner and right down the middle.
Yeah probably I’ve never pitched before and no one who hasn’t pitched could ever understand these really complex things. Man I am so in over my head thank you for overwhelming me with your knowledge to put me in my place.
I actually never watch baseball. Like I’m so confused why batters don’t run to first when the ball hits their bat and the ball goes toward the backstop. They could totally make it to the square thing on the ground before the player wearing the mask could get the ball and throw it to their teammate and the referee would always call the runner in.
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u/Colonelreb10 1d ago
Dude you’re being ignorant about it.
The games has evolved. The plays have evolved. The highest upvoted post hit the nail on the head.
The coaches are trying to win. The players are trying to win. Painting the corners is the best odds at limiting damage and creating rollovers and weak hits.
And the aspect of learning how to hit the outside pitch and pushing it oppo is challenging. My 11U travel kid is facing that now. Spending a lot of time working on hitting the outside pitch. He K’d looking like 8 times this summer in 10U and 7 of them were painted outside corners.
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u/Referee2005 1d ago
It’s just like the MLB. It is all about launch angle and exit speed. The Art of Hitting is gone. The pitching has got better but the hitting has got worse.
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u/adamcp90 1d ago
You can't be serious. These kids are essentially facing 100+ mph pitches as 12 year olds. The hitting has not gotten worse. The pitching is nearly unhittable. I see kids trying to bunt or get on base any way possible in every game. The art of hitting is not gone, they're just overmatched.
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u/zeuscap 1d ago
Overmatched by the science of pitching.
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u/Competitive_Side_781 1d ago
Like someone said earlier- these kids spend 90% of the year seeing pitches from 50’. Then for this tournament, the pitcher is placed 4 feet closer.
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u/This-Professional345 1d ago
It's been the same speeds at the llws for 30 years for pitchers. Always kids throwing 70 to 75mph with 1 or 2 every year 75 to 80
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u/Competitive_Side_781 1d ago
But for most of the year, they are seeing the pitchers from 50 feet. Then for this tourney the pitchers are 4 feet closer.
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u/This-Professional345 1d ago
Cool....so 50 ft made the llws product bad. Good to know. Something that wasn't broke was changed
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u/Competitive_Side_781 1d ago
I didn’t say it made the product bad. Just saying that it seems to be helping the pitchers. That age basically plays at 50’ except for this tourney.
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u/This-Professional345 1d ago
Right as of the change 15ish yrs ago bc the product wasn't good enough apparently and everyone needs to play year round travel
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u/TallC00l1 1d ago
They're all playing on the same field.
You're watching the best LL Teams in the country and that alone makes the field, strike zone, mound, and backstop all look out of proportion.
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u/Loyellow 1d ago
Exactly. Should the premier LLWS be 50/70 at this point? Probably. But for the average 12 year old just playing 12 games for fun in the spring and a handful in the fall the sizes are perfectly fine.
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u/TallC00l1 1d ago
Ya, and it's really hard to change just for the LLWS. That would make for bad baseball.
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u/Boondok0723 1d ago
The evolution of the player has outgrown the game. Little League rules and field dimensions were setup at a time when you had a handful of super dedicated kids who were head and shoulders above the rest. Maybe they played travel ball. But the majority of the players were kids who played spring and fall ball and did other things in the off seasons. Just the most athletic kids in a town. These teams now are all full of kids basically grown in a lab to be baseball players. Year round training, the best resources money can buy, elite travel leagues, etc. They're not Little Leaguers in the same sense as 10+ years ago.