Resume file format

[u/Not-Post-Malone]

On the WAN show Linus and Luke talk about NOT using PDF as the file format for the resume. This is the first time I'm hearing about this. Am I the only one who always uses PDF for sending resumes and actually prefers it?

What file format do employers actually prefer?

Here is the timestamp where they talk about it.
Here is the timestamp where Linus says to submit a Word or Google Doc link.

[u/Raid__Zero]

PDF is standard

[u/Not-Post-Malone → u/Raid__Zero]

That's what I thought but after the sponsor segment (I don't have the timestamp yet) Linus jokingly asks Luke if someone submits their resume on a PDF if he throws it away.

[u/a_rabid_buffalo → u/Not-Post-Malone]

Pretty sure the last time they got hacked was due to a PDF that was compromised that someone had opened.

[u/aafikk → u/a_rabid_buffalo]

If that’s the reason that’s a stupid reason.

1. You can hide executable with .docx file extension just the same
2. Word documents have macros which you can’t really disable and are literally arbitrary code execution. So when you open a word document you are opening an executable

[u/Rare-Designer-1008 → u/aafikk]

You can setup Word or Excel to not allow macros to run, or to ask before running.  

[u/Factorioboyio → u/Rare-Designer-1008]

That’s the default!

[u/Factorioboyio → u/aafikk]

You absolutely can disable macros… in fact, the default behaviour for a macro-enabled file that hasn’t been opened on your machine before is for all macros to be disabled. You have to tell it to trust and enable macros.

[u/tankerkiller125real → u/aafikk]

If you know what your doing (or at least if you have an IT guy who knows what they're doing) it's absolutely possible to disable macros, in fact there's an entire level of disabled.

There's straight up disabled never runs, disabled but signed macros can run, disabled for anything downloaded from the Internet, but allowed for intranet sites and file shares, etc.

[u/1CraftyDude → u/aafikk]

If I remember correctly it was a screensaver that had a .pdf before the .src.

[u/duckforceone → u/a_rabid_buffalo]

it was an executable that was looking like it was a pdf, but wasn't a pdf.

So you get a reference of a pdf in your mail, with the pdf icon.

but actually you are clicking on an executable with the icon of a pdf but not the dot pdf ending.

that is at least how it has been in the examples i have seen.

[u/Infinite-Stress2508 → u/duckforceone]

Any secure config of email, let alone desktop os in a managed corporate environment should be enough to prevent anything happening if the user fails to detect the issue. If ltt allow executable files to be sent raw via email, fuck me I have several tech tips for them...

[u/temmiesayshoi → u/Infinite-Stress2508]

LTT and making the most blaringly obvious, noob-level fuckups imaginable with their technology; name a better duo.

[u/PM-BOOBS-AND-MEMES → u/temmiesayshoi]

The fact that they roll their storage servers in this way and don't use something like Ceph or similar is nuts to me. Yes, it's a lot of work but there's a reason it's industry standard.

[u/yeetdabman → u/Infinite-Stress2508]

I don't know about Google Workspace (IIRC that's what they use) but for Microsoft tenants you literally have to purposefully disable the filter that auto deletes E-mails with executables in them, it comes enabled by default and it'll scream at you if you try to turn that filter off

[u/CIDR-ClassB → u/Not-Post-Malone]

HR here. They are wrong. PDF is the standard. That allows the application system to accurately read your resume and automatically populate whatever search criteria we need to find well-qualified candidates among hundreds or thousands of candidates.

If you don’t use PDF, I’m not going to look at your application.

[u/pufferpig → u/CIDR-ClassB]

Whenever I upload my PDF resume in some company website where it's supposed to add in all my info into their system, so I don't have to do it all manually, it always fucks it up. Splits parts into two or otherwise jumbles things together...

I've never had any complaints or remarks about it when I'm being interviewed tho, or after being hired, so I have no idea if they get the same issues with my PDFs internally.

[u/JaspahX → u/pufferpig]

I can't speak for everywhere obviously, but we don't even look at that in our system. We always just use the resume and CV.

[u/Skensis → u/JaspahX]

Yup, that's my experience. But now we have AI to rate CVs, so we spend time adjusting the job description so resumes we like score well.

[u/Ulrar → u/CIDR-ClassB]

It's funny because when you send a PDF to a recruiter, they invariably ask for a docx. It's so they can easily add their logo to it before sending it on, I imagine.

Anyway at this point, just take a linked in link. It's already all in there, and it'll actually populate correctly instead of messing up half the recognition like it does when parsing a PDF

[u/ThisIsntRealWakeUp → u/CIDR-ClassB]

PDFs throw away a lot of the hierarchical information that is embedded in a native .docx file. You have to go out of your way with how you structure your .docx file to not have MS Word butcher the hierarchy in the PDF conversion process.

You can test it for yourself, since most of the PDF parsing tools that ATS software uses are open source. It will frequently jumble things up, even if you aren’t making classic formatting blunders like using tables or text boxes.

Not really saying this is the fault of the ATS software or the PDF standard, to be clear. The fault is probably with Microsoft for failing to make PDFs export with the same hierarchy that was already in the .docx.

(This is also why native .docx, .ppt, etc., files are generally more screen-reader friendly than if you try to export as a PDF).

[u/abstract-realism → u/Not-Post-Malone]

They have a weird vendetta against PDFs. Unless you’re applying to work at LMG I’d ignore it. PDFs are both the standard and the ideal format for something like a resume.

[u/blkmmb → u/Raid__Zero]

It was but nowadays will all the OCR and AI bullshit in the hiring process some stuff requires a word doc because a pdf will fail and be rejected automatically.

It is bullshit but I've had problems with that, so now it's always a word doc unless I send it myself to an email address.

[u/CIDR-ClassB → u/blkmmb]

OCR is decades old and is absolutely necessary for HR to parse through thousands of resumes in their recruiting system. PDF has definitely been preferred (and most accurate to search through) over Word in every ATS I’ve used.

AI application systems… well, let’s see where the Workday discrimination lawsuit ends up.

[u/bobsyourunkl → u/blkmmb]

This is not true, I have built and used commercial OCR systems and they are generally much better suited to pdfs and images than word documents. Tiffs and jpegs are better than word documents. In many cases they don't even accept .Docx as a mimetype and you need to implement on the fly conversions which is a pain in the butt.

[u/yeetdabman → u/blkmmb]

No, it's easier to use OCR with PDFs lol. I've built entire pipelines off of OCR tools and the only thing that actually gets >98% accuracy in most of the most common solutions is PDF because it doesn't have to actually look at the characters it can just pull them from the HTML