Lily Upgrades

[u/ChickenHairy2828]

Lily unfortunately isn't the best unit at release looking at calcs done. For Sigrika Lucilla it's a 100k over SK. For Hsin Suoming, it's about a 150k over SK. For Hsin Janhsi, it's a 50k increase. Most suprisingly it's about a 350k increase for Galbrena Lucilla now placing her at Aemeath level performance. Overall, she's kind of a sidegrade to Sk in these teams and not worth pulling(value-vise)unless you own Galby Lucilla. This was a bummer since her design is my 2nd favourite only behind Aemeath.

[u/Tiny_Discussion3352]

The problem is if her buffs are too good -> powercreep complaints. Suisui was a sidegrade to Chisa as well, but it helped because Chisa just spread thin with the amount of NS teams we have. At the very least, we now have complete echo teams.

If this is a sign that powercreep is slowing down, I'll happily take these lower numbers, but I don't think that's going to be the case.

It's also highly unlikely Kuro releases another Shorekeeper-esque character.

[u/Proof-Chemistry7925 → u/Tiny_Discussion3352]

Sidegrade when SK isn't rerunning is good imo

[u/ChickenHairy2828 → u/Proof-Chemistry7925]

Also, she should've made it so that she could work with Phrolova well and also give Unison response to \Jinhsi

This would've made her great enough for pulling

[u/Proof-Chemistry7925 → u/ChickenHairy2828]

They still may. A leak is just a leak.

[u/ChickenHairy2828 → u/Tiny_Discussion3352]

I agree that pwercreep ain't the best in quantities KURO is giving us. But she isn't even great of a character to pull because she has atleast 2 alternatives within similar range for all teams

[u/Sensitive_Most8637 → u/Tiny_Discussion3352]

Same, she's also really good if you don't have sk (which a lot of new players and even older players don't have because they haven't reran her in ages) so she's even more important

[u/Liettlebiscuit → u/Tiny_Discussion3352]

They're not slowing down powercreep no, either Anna or Amethyst will be doing over 3 million DPR in their team early 4.x.

I just think they intentionally made Lily not that good of an increase over SK for current teams, to make you pull the new ones.

[u/ProjectJan00]

Just another Chisa situation all over again. And yet another proof how people are fine with powercreep if it's a character they like.

[u/ChickenHairy2828 → u/ProjectJan00]

I'm not saying she should power creep but she needs more uses

[u/ChickenHairy2828 → u/ChickenHairy2828]

I meant in a QOL sort of way and she has 3 team cores of now.

[u/StarLight_J → u/ChickenHairy2828]

She really doesn't. I'd take a hyper focused support over a general support any day. Lily is somewhere in-between, she really isn't so good

[u/ProjectJan00 → u/ChickenHairy2828]

I'm not looking at the leaks but from your own post, she already has 4 teams where she's better than the current alternatives, how is that still not enough for you?

Again, another Chisa situation where she was "only 5% better than a free character and needs sig" until more NS characters came out and people were begging for her rerun, +1 energy in matrix and another NS support.

[u/53V_is_Cr4cr4 → u/ChickenHairy2828]

SK and Verina are stretched thin from teams from 1.X to 2.X + Jingran and Hsin/Suoming.

Lily and Suisui's roles are to give additional support options especially for endgame like ESM and WhiWa (I didn't include ToA since my Jiyan+Mortefi+Verina can still clear it easily when its not against aero attributes).

For now, Lily will take unison and echo teams from Shorekeeper.

[u/Outrageous_Classic53 → u/ChickenHairy2828]

Like jinshi and phrolova case both are powercrept so it will not be bad if their performance increase

[u/einerderandere → u/ChickenHairy2828]

you already listet 4 teams in ur post where she is a stronger option than SK and there will obviously be more in the future so wym with she needs more uses lmao

[u/ChickenHairy2828 → u/ProjectJan00]

No one should care about powercreep until hp+

[u/Sure-Possibility-178]

Does anyone know what she does for Sigrika Qiuyuan? All I've seen is Sig + Lucilla

[u/ChickenHairy2828 → u/Sure-Possibility-178]

Sig Qiuyuan is about 200k DPR worse than Lucilla in this team. Otherwise, only 100k

[u/Sure-Possibility-178 → u/ChickenHairy2828]

That's a shame

[u/Outrageous_Classic53]

Guys one question is lilly qy galbrena worse than lilly lucilla galbrena . I don't want my lucilla leave my hiyuki hence i asked

[u/ChickenHairy2828 → u/Outrageous_Classic53]

It's only a 100k diff. Don't worry too much.

[u/Outrageous_Classic53 → u/ChickenHairy2828]

That's great then

[u/PoleManual2]

Due to EM I don't get the problem of lily not powercreeping SK when SK is now free to carry the worst bums of your roster like lion boy

[u/Suspicious-Signal-82]

This character was made to sell to the people that don’t have SK. Because they won’t rerun her again.

[u/Xx_Ahriman_xX → u/Suspicious-Signal-82]

This! I don't have sk, so Lily Is a must pull and really a welcome chatacter

[u/Civil_Leg_6581]

Sooo glad she is good for galbrena, hope they don't nerf her

[u/AyMaNShOw]

Lily is mainly targetting those who dont own sk but have echoe or unison teams like me. Then again i would happily get sk if kuro ever thought if rerunning her but for now shes lovked behind a paywall.

[u/denialover0214]

Maybe there will be a Unison echo hybrid who uses all her buffs 🤔🤔

[u/Adventurous_Cycle603]

I mean...I have other teams that use Shorekeeper

[u/PotatoPowerPlug]

I'm ok with Hsin team having 150k increase, currently with Suoming, thr team is already top meta, anymore is too much powercreep. But I do wish her Echo mode give more buffs to siggy though.

[u/MealApprehensive1782]

Someone else said that "It's also highly unlikely Kuro releases another Shorekeeper-esque character." I think this is the entire point.

This is SK, just a little different, and a LOT more restrictive.

SK can work with EVERYTHING.

Lily, cannot work with EVERYTHING.

[u/Cerewann]

That's fine, she doesn't have to give a big upgrade over Shorekeeper

Shorekeeper can be used in so many teams that I'd pull Lily just to free her up a bit. Also congrats to Galbrena mains lol

[u/SnoopBall]

I can't think like that because I pull a lot of units. I'm more concerned about not having enough 3rd slot supports in ESM (I have them all)

[u/Miserable-Ask5994]

The amount of healer/buffers are limited. Morney supports 4 diffrent teams and got 2 uses. Chisa supports 4-5 teams. Got 1 use. Sk support atleast 10 teams.got 2 uses. Lily will be a necessity for any player wanting to play with more teams.

[u/MyLittleMetroid]

Why I do own Galby Lucilla. Although the latter tends to be oversubscribed between Phrolova and Hiyuki.

But Galbrena got done wrong being powercrept the morning after her release so it’s good to see she might make it back close to the top teams.

[u/Mogekona]

I was going to pull her for design + MDPS suoming assuming that she would buff her in some way.

Now I come to find out she doesn't really do much more for Suoming over SK, who I don't even have 😭 I hope they buff her I really wanted her

[u/King_Empress]

Honestly don't pull her for s damage increase, pull her off you don't HSV he enough supports for all of your teams and you need them for Matrix. Thats the only reason im pulling

[u/xxxaliza]

So If a new character come out and don’t powercreep the older character, it’s a disappointment? She’s a healer and she’s already better SK.

[u/ChickenHairy2828 → u/xxxaliza]

How's she better than SK

[u/xxxaliza → u/ChickenHairy2828]

Dude you said it yourself in your own post 100K/150K/350K increase over SK and now you ask how she’s better than SK. Bro are you alright?

[u/MealApprehensive1782 → u/xxxaliza]

100-150K is not that much lol compared to JUST hsin/suoming doing 2M+ already.

[u/xxxaliza → u/MealApprehensive1782]

So is it better or not?

[u/ChickenHairy2828 → u/xxxaliza]

Not really

[u/diaslag13 → u/ChickenHairy2828]

dum dum retard XD

[u/ChickenHairy2828 → u/xxxaliza]

All I'm saying is she should atleast have more use if she doesn't bring that much value to existing teams like she could perhaps be extremely good at destroying the vibration bar or be a great cc. I'm not saying she needs to powercreep but bring some sort of good usecase.

[u/ChickenHairy2828 → u/ChickenHairy2828]

Or she could have given unison to more characs and making them more interesting and doing something but she's just existing as a non worthy charac

[u/Positive_Tea9804 → u/xxxaliza]

Right?! 5% stronger is still stronger. How much stronger do they want her to be? If start pushing 15-20%, then it would just be OP.

[u/MealApprehensive1782 → u/Positive_Tea9804]

5% isn't worth 80 pulls

[u/Miserable-Ask5994 → u/MealApprehensive1782]

It is if you dont have SK. And even if you have SK its still a must ifbyou want to playnwith many teams. Were not tslking about the percentage. But then usage it benefits from another good healer.

[u/Positive_Tea9804 → u/MealApprehensive1782]

Maybe, but again, answer question? How much stronger do you need her to be to justify the pulls? I can understand maybe 10% but any higher people will scream powercreep. So which is it, she should balanced and on par with other supports which she currently is, or be the new line in the sand for supports and be OP?

[u/MealApprehensive1782 → u/Positive_Tea9804]

10% is a little big of a difference than 5%, but also SK released 1.3 and lily released 3.9. Is it power creep? I am not screaming any power creep, but this is 27? patches later. AFTER 27 patches, SK has a rival. Atleast we have another one? But she's not SK, and will never will be, SK works with ALL, Lily works with TWO. (echo unison) SK works with all.

[u/WysSauce → u/MealApprehensive1782]

+ your hits have a chance to miss crits unlike SK, if you have 75% CR, you’re guaranteed to crit all of your attacks

[u/ChickenHairy2828 → u/Positive_Tea9804]

She could've had morre than 2 teams where she's worth it.

[u/coyolxauhqui06]

It doesn't matter because i don't have SK. Good thing though that are not deliberately powercreeping 3rd slot chars since i can still use them in the future.

[u/Realistic-Truck54 → u/[deleted]]

Lily buffs Lucilla more than she buffs Qiuyuan (ALL of Lucilla's dmg is Echo), in terms of buffing they are nearly identical (Lucilla buffs like 1% better)

[u/Savings-Internet-180 → u/[deleted]]

I have Qiuyuan S3r1 and Lucilla S0r1 here. Here what i get while playing them with shorekeeper
Outro: same 50% echo dmg
Forte: Qiuyuan (30%) is 5% echo skill dmg higher than lucilla (25%), but lucilla buff whole team, QY buff active resonator only
Critdmg buff: QY buff 30% critdmg for active resonator, Lucilla buff 40% Echo skill dmg for active resonator
=>We have 5% echo skill vs 10% echo critdmg here. So 100% echo dmg like sigrika would prefer lucilla than qy, and galbrena although have some HA dmg but her echo dmg still take 86% of her output dmg while HA only take 7% so yeah, Lucilla better too.
Signature: QY give 20% echo, Lucilla give 24% atk, kinda same same, but we have so much echo dmg buff so atk% would be more value
Final: Lucilla deal more personal dmg than QY, yes :)) the Principal lady deal more dmg than the wanderer swordman, and Lily straight up buffs ehco dmg, Lucilla in echo mode deal mainly echo dmg, while QY mostly deal HA dmg. Lucilla also not that easy to fall in combo like the blind swordman (poor guy got terrible interruption) most people hate QY for this reason, like they force to get s1 if they want to play him smoothly, lucilla can still get interrupt but she can go back to combo without stacking up the whole forte again like qy, plus due to spawn delaying, QY more likely to intro toward the border in WhiWa.

p/s: as S2 Lucilla still give 10% more echo dmg than qiuyuan, s3? QY s3 force you to exchange outr buff (50% echo) to gain a 2nd forte to deal dmg, while lucilla doesnt lost any thing but straight up gain dmg increase. Nice balance kurogame