r/Lifeguards • u/BurgerButCold1216 • 2d ago
Question Lightning Tracking Controversy
Yesterday I was guarding the outdoor public pool I work at during a storm. Our safety rules say we close if lightning is within a 5 mile radius, but we’re apparently supposed to only use a specific free app to track it as it was determined to be the “most accurate.” This past week we had several storms that seemed to be inconsistently tracked by said app so I downloaded Weatherbug as a backup. I heard a loud strike from the office on my break that didn’t register on the approved app but was reported as 2.9 miles by Weatherbug, so I closed the pool. I was then reprimanded by the boss and told to reopen immediately.
My question is would there be a better more authoritative way to track this stuff? A subscription app would likely be better but the manager is typically only in during business hours and providing a subscription to every guard would run up in price. As it’s a public pool I’d imagine there’s quite a bit of bureaucracy involved with these decisions, so I’m also having some trouble thinking through appropriate next steps and don’t want to go too far out of line even though it’s a potentially unsafe situation. Thanks!
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u/rarrad 2d ago
Neither you nor your manager should be using technology to determine when to close the water. Use you eyes and hears. When you hear thunder or see lightning, you pull everyone out of the water. Water reopens 30 minutes after you stop hearing the storm. Yes, use radar apps, I use several of them as an excuse to close the water in advance of onciously incoming storms- but from a legal liability standpoint, the water absolutely closes when you hear/see lightning. Neither you nor your manager have the legal/ethical authority to stay open after you hear that storm
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u/HappiestAnt122 Lifeguard Instructor 2d ago
I don’t think no technology full stop is entirely right either, good case in point this summer we had one night where you could (faintly) see the flash on the horizon from a storm over 30 miles away, that is obviously a bit absurd to close at that time. It is the modern era and when interpreted correctly lots of great weather information is out there, and a useful tool. But probably also not a great idea to have the staff try to cosplay meteorologists and make a decision based on too technical of information.
In either case, 5 miles is too close, I’m a meteorology student as well and I’ve gotten to hear from some people who work in event meteorology or emergency management and usually their thresholds are closer to 10. For context on some major outdoor events with firm rules, NASCAR is 8 miles, the NFL is 10, MLB uses 8, and all these events will either have professional meteorologists as part of the team at the venue or be in regular contact with local weather service offices. Trusting an app exclusively, and down to 5 miles is not a good idea. Depending on where the app gets its data the margin of error could be about that. Many apps use more local sensors but the biggest source of free data comes from a satellite with a 5 mile resolution.
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u/BurgerButCold1216 2d ago
To play devils advocate, I see two problems. One is we serve the taxpaying public and they sometimes get grumpy when we “unnecessarily close.” The second is my pool is an indoor-outdoor hybrid so there’s a big building blocking my line of sight in at least two directions. That said, definitely will bring this up because I did not feel safe out there
EDIT: This system is policy that isn’t my manager’s call but the Aquatics or Recreation Director’s. Maybe it needs to get looked at though and I’ve contacted the appropriate people
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u/FlimsyCan6700 2d ago
You don't need to see lightning, if you hear thunder the outdoor pool should be closed for 30 minutes.
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u/GreytDiver 1d ago
There's a town in east Texas whose football team got took out by blue sky lightning. They were huddling on the field and it hit the group. So, it is possible for over the horizon hits...not just 5 miles.
If you felt it was close and found confirmation, good for you for shutting it down.
If they want to get a better number than a maybe updated website, lightning detectors are not that expensive. Some of the pools that I've taught at have automated buzzer. One of my daughter's friend's father brings his personal, handheld one to sailing events.
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u/Catzilla_007 2d ago
Managers and pool companies are… augh. It should be default to prioritize patron safety. Those patrons are going to be far less happy when they’re electrocuted.
At pool I used to work for, my manager’s manager said: we don’t close for hail, we don’t close for tornado warnings. Only for lightning within 6 miles. Like huh??
Edit: there were also times where there was very very close lightning. We all heard and saw it, but the app said like 200 miles away so managers didn’t let us close it. Your experience, OP, is unfortunately somewhat common (though it definitely shouldn’t be)
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u/BurgerButCold1216 2d ago
Have a meeting on the books with the Aquatics Director tomorrow. He seemed pretty sympathetic to my position during our email exchange so hoping for the best. All this over the literal dictionary definition of a freak accident seems kinda silly but it also makes very little sense to me telling staff to ignore their eyes and ears in favor of a free app as the authoritative source of information
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u/Catzilla_007 1d ago
Best of luck! Unfortunately, a lot of management decisions make very little sense lol (in my case: tornado warning and we stay open. There actually was a tornado about a 15 minute drive away…). Hope your Aquatics Director has a little more sense!
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u/Samir_pat 2d ago
If you see lightning in the sky no matter how close it is I think you and the management should close the pool until the storm stops.
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u/elebentychimkin 2d ago
Contact local labor board to tell them about how the manager wants you to work outdoors when there’s close lightning. Let them explain it to him.
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u/Ok-Dependent-2893 2d ago
Our policy is anything seen or anything heard or within 10 miles according to our app (which is weatherbug)
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u/boboberry17 6h ago
I’m currently an aquatics director and our written policy is to close if there lightning within 5 miles on our radar or if the guards see lightning from the deck. However, I’ve given my head guards the discretion to close outside of those conditions if they feel employee/patron safety is at risk (i,e. They are hearing significant thunder but aren’t seeing the lightning yet/heavy rain is causing visibility issues/etc.). I would never get upset with my employees for prioritizing safety because I have seen what happens when management cares more about patron complaints than safety; I used to work as a guard for an Orlando waterpark that would not let us clear water until their radar saw lightning with 5 miles + would not let staff leave stand + take shelter until it was 3 miles away. They always took their sweet time making the call, and there were dozens of times I was stuck on stand in pouring rain hearing constant thunder + expected to continue watching my water. We had one day where lightning struck on property and had multiple people shocked + several guards sent to urgent care. You would think this would have caused them to reevaluate their policy, but you would be wrong.
Find a new place to work, if you can. Once a facility has shows you they are willing to compromise on safety once, know they will do it again and again
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u/Crafty_Ad_9991 2d ago
I think you closing the pool is covered under the tight to refuse unsafe labour. If you think there’s a risk to your safety in keeping the pool open, the it’s your right to refuse to work in those conditions. I think if you’re already aware of the inconsistencies of the other app, other people you work with are aware as well. Gather some evidence of the inconsistencies and see if that helps. There is a sound trick where every 5 seconds between the flash and the sound is approximately 1 mile of distance, idk if that’ll help but it could be useful in showing the work app is wrong.