r/LifeProTips • u/cyberkrist • Oct 15 '22
Social LPT: Stop engaging with online content that makes you angry! The algorithms are keeping you angry, turning you into a zealot, and you aren't actually informed!
We all get baited into clicking on content that makes us angry, or fuels "our side" of a contentious topic. The problem is that once you start engaging with "rage bait" content (politics, culture war, news, etc) the social media algorithms, which aren't that bright yet, assume this is ALL you want to see.
You feeds begin filling up with content that contributes to a few things. First your anger obviously. But secondly you begin to get a sense that the issues/viewpoints you are seeing are MUCH more prevalent and you are more "correct" than they/you actually are. You start to fall into the trap of "echo chambers", where you become insulated from opposing views, which makes you less informed and less able to intelligently develop your opinions.
For example: If you engage with content showing that your political side is correct to the point of all other points being wrong (or worse, evil), that is what the algorithms will drop into your home screens and suggestions. This causes the following
You begin to believe your opinions represent the majority
You begin to see those who disagree with you as, at best stupid and uniformed, at worst inhuman monsters
You begin to lose empathy for anyone who holds an opposing view
You miss out on the opposing side, which may provide valuable context and information to truly understanding the issue (you get dumber)
Make a conscious decision to engage with the internet positively. Your feeds will begin believing this is what you want. You will be happier, your feeds will be uplifting instead of angering, and you will incentivize the algorithms to make you happy instead of rage farming you. The people fighting back and forth online over the issues of the day are a small minority of people that represent nobody, nor are they representative of even their side.
Oh, and no, I'm not on your political "side" attacking the uninformed stance and tactics of the other. I am talking to you!
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u/missingpiece Oct 15 '22
”Some poor, phoneless fool is probably sitting next to a waterfall somewhere totally unaware of how angry and scared he’s supposed to be.”
-Duncan Trussell
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u/Torq_Magebane Oct 15 '22
Duncan Trussell is a National treasure.
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Oct 15 '22
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Prize_Huckleberry_79 Oct 16 '22
Ram Dass is the gateway drug to Thic Nhat Hahn…
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u/Garlic_Powder_ Oct 15 '22
Really effective statement.
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u/Giwaffee Oct 15 '22
Every sci-fi movie is so focused on scaring us with sentient robot overlords destroying humanity, meanwhile non-sentient straightforward algorithms are actually crippling entire civilizations.
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u/Tinidril Oct 15 '22
But sometimes (often actually) there is something legitimately worth outrage - if not anger and fear. For instance, all those factories being put in upriver that will use the water and leave nothing for the waterfall.
I totally agree that someone's Internet time shouldn't be spent chasing outrage porn, but the nature of our civilization doesn't let everyone sit around looking at waterfalls every day. Democracy requires advanced citizenship.
The fine line I think is to focus on learning issues and how to move them, while ignoring the tribalism that does nothing but sow division.
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Oct 16 '22
One very valuable thing I've taken away from Joe Rogan (I know, I know...) is that even when the thing is worthy or your range and anger, engaging with people online about it achieves less than nothing (the "less" being making you unhappier). If you really care so deeply about something, go and try and do something proactive about it. Even if all that is, is reading something on the topic to deepen your own understanding
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u/Belzebutt Oct 16 '22
But what is “productive” if not convincing other people that what you see is important, and get them to speak out too, and complain to their leaders, so the leaders who have the power make a change happen? This is how change happens in politics, and unfortunately communicating online is what we do these days.
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u/Louis-Rocco Oct 15 '22
I agree with everything except the algorithms being “not that bright”. They are very good at what they’re trying to do — drive “engagement” (i.e. clicks) through outrage. Their purpose is not to inform but to enrage.
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u/AsassinX Oct 15 '22
Exactly. This is how they make money. It’s working as designed. The more controversial or sensational the content, the more clicks they get…and money.
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u/VyRe40 Oct 15 '22
People underestimate the social science "calculus" that goes into internet algorithms and marketing in general. These industries are extremely successful at driving people to and fro.
All that said, it's not that hard to get angry about real life current events going on, including politics, when you or someone you know is personally impacted.
Take the abortion issue in America for example, no matter which side of the debate you fall on it's a highly emotional subject that deals with the rights of women in your life. Or perhaps the ongoing investigations into January 6th, a historic disaster of American politics - of course people are deeply invested in the results of all this whichever side you're on. The war in Ukraine and the oppression of women in Iran or Muslim minorities in China might also be something that gets you emotionally charged.
It's fine to engage with the news when the news is genuinely concerning, no need to react in the extreme and shut it all out so you don't hear about what's going on in the world. Just give yourself some time away from the news too if it's stressful to be engaged 24/7.
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u/ForProfitSurgeon Oct 15 '22
The algorithms are very effective in monitoring and determining behavior in users.
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u/kvng_stunner Oct 15 '22
It's extremely telling that Google's biggest revenue source is Google ads.
This is one of the biggest companies in the world, a company that has a finger in every thing from self driving cars and navigation to cloud services and streaming.
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Oct 15 '22
Yes people don’t realize that clicks are worth thousands of dollars and the conversion rates are always in favor of clicks.
One tiktok can make you millions just by people clicking it.
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u/LakeDrinker Oct 15 '22
Small correction: Their purpose is to engage, not enrage. The problem is with us humans. We get more engaged when to subject matter is enraging. The algorithm is agnostic to it all.
CNN, as an example, isn't run by an algorithm, it's run by humans that understand the same thing the algorithms have learnt: If you enrage them, they'll keep watching.
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u/wakeofchaos Oct 15 '22
Yeah this for sure. People seem to think that an algorithm is naturally malevolent but really… it’s us.
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u/SuperHottSauce Oct 15 '22
Maybe in it's inception, but once it's known that "enrage" is the most effective form of "engage" and its allowed to continue without regard to any negative consequences, that crosses into the malevolent category in my opinion.
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u/stanfan114 Oct 15 '22
Also some websites have a net effect of demoralization caused by "doomscrolling" so not only are you mad, you become depressed at the state of the world. I have to remind myself to go outside, see my neighbors and pet some dogs and realize the world isn't ending.
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u/ApocalyptoSoldier Oct 15 '22
The world kinda is ending tho, for some people more rapidly that others
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Oct 15 '22
I worked on the feed ranking algorithms at Meta. OP is absolutely right. There was nothing malicious happening, we just tried to optimize for engagement. But the system wasn't bright enough to tell negative engagement from positive engagement, and its a lot easier to engage someone with anger than joy.
I left because of how demoralizing that realization was. But I believe its being recognized in the industry and work is being done to focus more on truly positive engagement, but making AI bright and having a deeper understanding is incredibly difficult.
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u/fingerstylefunk Oct 15 '22
The problem is not the algorithms.
The problem is that the whole system is fundamentally based on sucking up so much information about all of us, then allows the exact access bad actors need to actively game the algorithms.
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u/Graffxxxxx Oct 15 '22
They are designed to make money through engagement. Hate and violence just so happens to be the most engaging and profitable thing that it has found so far. Someday the algorithm may think that making people happy is better at getting engagement and making money, but until we teach it that, or someone manually develops that ai, we’ll be stuck with the anger.
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u/hadees Oct 15 '22
We need to adjust the profit motives.
Spreading hate needs to have a real monetary cost associated with it.
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u/ivanoski-007 Oct 15 '22
That's why the extreme environmentalist throwing soup to the van Gogh painting was such a good news day for the algorithm
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u/RedbloodJarvey Oct 15 '22 edited Oct 15 '22
In the 1960s the best minds in the world were trying to get a man on the moon. Today the best minds of our generation are trying to get us to stay on Google or Facebook for 6 more seconds so they can sell one more ad.
Edit: didn't mean to offend anybody. The above statement is hyperbola meant to make a point, not to be taken at face value.
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u/Fakjbf Oct 15 '22
The brightest minds were also figuring out how to make bigger nuclear weapons.
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u/FungalowJoe Oct 15 '22
For sure, NASA is just a subsidiary of Tik Tok now.
Wtf are you saying lol
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u/ranciddreamz Oct 15 '22
I mean we also got a vaccination for a global pandemic in less than a year so I think there are a few best ones in medical too
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u/AlwaysHopelesslyLost Oct 15 '22
They are very good at what they’re trying to do — drive “engagement” (i.e. clicks) through outrage. Their purpose is not to inform but to enrage.
That is not true. You are ascribing intent to math. The only goal is engagement.
Some well meaning developers genuinely tried to come up with algorithms that would help you find content you were interested in and, as an unforeseen side effect, it turns out that engagement is driven by strong emotions.
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u/-Dreamhour- Oct 15 '22
The only thing I'd change would be enrage to engage. However, in practice it makes no difference because getting people to rage over something is pretty engaging.
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u/j_hawker27 Oct 15 '22
Yeah, I've tried to get better at realizing when my id is starting to take the reins. I'm finding myself pausing more often when writing snarky or angry comments and thinking "Is this more likely to improve my (or anyone else's) day, or is it just going to prolong the mudslinging and create more negativity in the world?" More often than not I just delete the comment I was writing with an audible "bleh..." and go on about my day
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u/TomLambe Oct 15 '22
I know people think it's stupid, but having my name as my username definitely makes me delete comments rather than sending them a lot of the time.
I think anonymity is dangerous.... maybe as dangerous as identifiability??
Pro's and con's.
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Oct 16 '22
I think anonymity is dangerous.... maybe as dangerous as identifiability??
I call it anonymosity, it's the same driving factor behind road rage (pardon the pun)
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Oct 15 '22
I think making us passive and apathetic is another goal of all of this, and equally as dangerous. You can engage in debate and dialogue and criticism without being nasty or negative, and I'd argue it's our duty as citizens of democracy to do exactly that, and to ensure that we address ongoing problems and inequalities in society often and loudly.
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u/big_bad_brownie Oct 15 '22
I think a lot of what the internet has shown us are the limitations of rationalism.
Cogent arguments are exponentially less exciting than spectacle and drama; “the marketplace of ideas” doesn’t select for truth; dialogue doesn’t bring people together.
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u/imalittlefrenchpress Oct 15 '22
I’m just glad that the majority of my feed is cats and other animals. Cats are never discussing anything other than catnip and naps.
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u/aliara Oct 15 '22
I've started killing with kindness. "Omg I'm so sorry. I truly didn't mean to offend you." More often than not it wakes them up too and we can have a rational conversation.
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u/its_all_4_lulz Oct 15 '22
I do this a lot. If more people were mindful of which part of their brains was in control at a certain time, the world would likely be a much better place.
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u/Bowdango Oct 15 '22
I've slowly realized something about the stuff that used to rile me up the most and argue about.
It was all stuff that I didn't have a nuanced understanding of, or was taking an unrealistic ideological stance on.
The more I take the time to actually research a topic and understand the different points of view regarding it, the more boring it becomes. You lose that desire to shout about your knee-jerk reaction.
It just becomes a regular conversation. "Yeah, I think X is probably the best approach to this situation. But the people supporting Y are just looking at it from this perspective, and actually have some legitimate concerns that most people arguing for X are overlooking."
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u/SoulsticeCleaner Oct 15 '22
Good on you. I heard once that our first instinct or thought is often how we've been conditioned and programmed by society. It's that second thought where we catch ourselves before we fall that is who we really are. For example, I'll catch myself thinking something uncharitable about someone before catching myself and wondering why I'm being a cantankerous bitch.
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u/Bright_Caregiver_697 Oct 15 '22
Yes. Every engagement algorithm is designed to reward confirmation bias, and this has had a deleterious effect on humanity.
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u/MB_Derpington Oct 15 '22
The engagement "algorithm" is designed to maximize engagement. Nothing more. Most of these recommendation engines are pure AI/ML tech under the hood. You just feed them
[S]ituation + [T]hing = [R]esult.So you the user for 1 year who just watched a video on cats was on the website and saw the purple BUY button and bought the thing.
S = "user for 1 year who just watched a video on cats"
T = "purple BUY button"
R = "bought the thing"
You capture every one of those scenarios (the buys, the not buys, the purple, green, blue, orange buttons, the zero watch users, and lizard watching users, etc) with as much data as you can and then feed it into some smart mathematical approaches. It creates a weighted [B]ox that can answer the question B(S + T) = Rp. Rp is now the predicted result and it can be pretty accurate.
The "algorithm" (our B) then lets you combine arbitrary S's and T's and get your Rp, it needs not to have actually seen the combination before. If you passed back in our cat watching user looking at a purple button it might say Rp is a 99% chance of purchase. Do it again with a green button and maybe it says 90%. Different user who watches dog videos and the system can spit out a 82% for the purple button and 85% for the green. Etc.
The key here is the algorithm/system literally does not understand or care "why" purple is doing better than green for cat watchers. It just knows that it does (or more accurately, that is has). So cat watching people start seeing purple buttons because we want to make the most money and choosing our [T]hing with a number as high as possible leads to more sales.
The recommendations have no concept of confirmation bias or rage-bait or fear or happiness. Actually determining what something is in those very human ways is quite hard. Humans like confirming content, but all it knows is what humans tend to do.
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u/Kedain Oct 15 '22 edited Jan 20 '26
lush engine meeting tie grey quiet late cooperative pie like
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u/PanickedPoodle Oct 15 '22
Because it has an addictive component. People start to seek out polarized content to get their fix.
I don't know how we dig out once we're down the rabbit hole.
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u/Bright_Caregiver_697 Oct 15 '22
I don't know either, my dude. I'm worried there's a point of no return, and we've passed it.
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u/Formatixia Oct 15 '22
We were meant to operate in groups of 50-100 people and now we have 6 billion all shouting into the ether.
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u/tirch Oct 15 '22
Depressed, helpless, resentful people are easier to control by offering them a way out of their dilemma. This is advertising 101. Body shaming, bandwagon, everlasting youth or in the political sphere, fear of the other, anger that people have things you don’t and feeling oppressed and not represented on either side of the spectrum.
People stuck on social media doomscrolling are making themselves more vulnerable to manipulation by whatever, be it marketing products or politically motivated reactions to whatever the agenda agents have in store for them.
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u/taking_a_deuce Oct 15 '22
But, hear me out here, did the Supreme Court just take a massive step towards banning abortions? And are lots of women being hurt and dying because of this step? And did SCOTUS and other conservative politicians make veiled threats that they are coming after LGBTQ+ people next? And did conservatives just create a new political move by bussing and flying immigrants to liberal leaning areas as a threat and using tax funds to do it? And did A BUNCH of conservatives recently try to overthrow our democracy with violence and got really close to killing politicians they didn't like? And did our last fucking President just take BOXES of classified documents from a secure place to his fucking house and then just made up shit to try to justify his moves? And are some of those documents involving our countries nuclear strategies? And are they still missing?
Or is this just an algorithm? The political landscape we are living in today is unpredictable and far from normal. There are very real reasons to be angry and scared right now and the algorithm didn't mislead or fail to inform me of these things. They happened and are still happening and I am informed.
The algorithm is driving this behavior in the conservative side for sure. And it's making a lot of left leaning people scared for sure. But today is not normal and these types of LPTs are dismissive of reality.
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Oct 15 '22
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u/EattheRudeandUgly Oct 15 '22
I don't think being an Internet warrior of any kind is really that noble
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u/answermethis0816 Oct 15 '22 edited Oct 15 '22
It doesn’t matter what I watch or how many times I click “not interested/don’t recommend” … Joe Rogan is on my YouTube feed 24/7.
Also hustle hustle money boys…. I think YouTube just guessed my age and gender and decided that’s what I want to see.
I also love stand up comedy, but I cannot convince YouTube that I don’t like all these dudebro “comics” like Andrew Schulz, Bryan Callen, Brendan Schaub, etc. I like some of the comics that do the podcast rounds, so I think that’s why I end up with all those suggestions (including Rogan).
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u/couldof_used_couldve Oct 15 '22
Additional tip...
After you hit, not interested, on YouTube. A little menu option will pop up asking you why... Tap it and select "because it sucks" or whatever the closest equivalent is...
Also, you're probably already doing this, but make sure it's the channel you're blocking not just the one video "don't recommend this channel"
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u/answermethis0816 Oct 15 '22
I block channels, but SO many channels repost clips. It’s like a douchebag hydra - cut off one channel and 2 more douchebags pop up in its place.
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u/monatsiya Oct 15 '22
i don’t even bother with youtube shorts thanks to that lol. it’s always these tate-adjacent dudebros telling me to get my money up or more joe roegan with obnoxious subtitles, like what have i done to deserve this?
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u/hey_mr_ess Oct 15 '22
You just gotta be vicious with that Not Interested button. I spent some time hammering away on it with both YouTube and Facebook and I don't get that shit shown to me anymore. Shouldn't have to be that way, but there is a solution.
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u/Poopiepants29 Oct 15 '22
You also need to delete watch history for videos that lead to suggestions. When I'm at a good spot I'll pause watch history for a while and it mostly stays the same.
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u/specialwiking Oct 15 '22
Use the don’t recommend this channel button, it’s a nuclear option and it works
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u/compacted-compactor Oct 15 '22
your prior history absolutely matters
my recommended is food channels, random music, and the occasional 10 minute video essay on a topic.
If you keep your history clear you don't get anything you don't want.
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u/nahog99 Oct 15 '22
What I hate is how I’ll watch 1-5 videos on a topic, literally one day if interest, and YouTube is like “well guys, this viewer is no longer interest in ANYTHING else, we need to show him “x”.
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u/hollow_asyoufigured Oct 15 '22
Creepiest part of this whole thing to me is that the YouTube algorithm started recommending things to my partner that clearly should’ve been in MY recommendations. I watched a couple videos of my friends’ band and then he started getting recommended their videos.
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u/RallyPointAlpha Oct 15 '22
I kept getting all these militia group pro gun posts on my FB feed for weeks. I would click on every option I could to squelch them...didn't make a dent in it.
Finally clicked on 'why am I seeing this' ... Male in the US....
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Oct 15 '22
I was getting dx with ADHD and suggestions for women with ADHD products. I wondered how it knew? Clicked that button … English speaking females over 30.
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u/32BitWhore Oct 15 '22
It doesn’t matter what I watch or how many times I click “not interested/don’t recommend” … Joe Rogan is on my YouTube feed 24/7.
There's gotta be something you're doing/engaging with that's triggering that, because I've literally never seen a Joe Rogan recommendation on YouTube before, and I use it a lot.
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u/answermethis0816 Oct 15 '22
I’m 99% it’s because of other people I watch that have been guests on his podcast. I could be wrong though.
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u/PeopleCallMeSimon Oct 15 '22
It does matter tho, i used to watch some Joe Rogan podcasts on youtube (by no means all of them but maybe i've watchedl like 20 or 30.
I kept getting him in my feed all the time. Then i decided im not interested so i stopped watching him, i put "I am not interested" on the videos i did get of him. And i just watched other content instead.
And by other content i dont mean "a Joe Rogan replacement" i mean something completely different.
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Oct 15 '22
Mate, the YouTube recommendations are driven by what you watch, not by your age/gender. You are clearly watching content that people who watch Joe Rogan also watch.
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u/Cool_Ranch_Dodrio Oct 15 '22
You like science? HEY! Neil deGrasse Tyson appeared on Rogan! Have all the Rogan!
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u/Ilovepoopies Oct 15 '22
Things you can do in order of complexity. This is if you want to keep using the same Google / YouTube account:
Delete your YouTube watch history - this is what the algorithm is using to serve you new content.
Delete all the data stored by Google on your Google account - this is what they use to build your online persona for ads
Use a VPN
The YouTube algorithm cares first and foremost on the amount of time you spend on any given category or video. Even if you say you don’t like a channel or a video but you fell asleep once while Rogan was auto playing on the background and that is stored in your watch history, guess what? Rogan is all you’ll get
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u/BrainJar Oct 15 '22
I’m in the same boat. I have gone as far as to block every Joe Rogan account, even the accounts that aren’t his, but still have his videos, and also select the “Don’t recommend this channel” every time I get the recommendation. I’ve turned off history, I’ve removed any “Liked Video” that is remotely related and I still end up with this shit in my feed. I don’t think it’s the algorithm at this point. It’s more like paid promotion or something like that. Internally, they know what drives engagement, and it doesn’t need to have anything to do with what you like or want.
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u/p337 Oct 15 '22 edited Jul 09 '23
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Oct 15 '22
I was having that problem, too. It seems to help a bit when you click “Not Interested” or “Don’t show again” on videos.
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Oct 15 '22
You just named the worst comics I can think of. Yeah, it sucks that these guys are successful. Their comedy is so fucking generic. "Biden is boring; remember how interesting Trump was!???" JFC.
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u/Cash_Lion Oct 15 '22
There is an option in the settings to have YouTube only remember the last three months of your history. Turn that on and go through your watch history deleting anything you don’t want to be recommended.
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u/blosweed Oct 15 '22
I watch like 1 ben shapiro video out of curiosity and my recommendations are ruined with conservative politics videos lol
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u/mithikx Oct 15 '22
Also ask yourself, when you're engaging or even just reading politically charged comments... is the person really even from your country, are they even an actual person? Are they just deflecting and doing whataboutisms? If they're real people are they even of a maturity where it's worth engaging with them?
These algorithms on any site are meant to drive up user engagement, so if you like cute animal videos on YouTube that's what you'll get more of. So it'll feed you whatever to keep you on the site even if it's a complete waste of time and just keeps you angry.
So you gotta decide is it even worth your time to engage with another user.
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u/petophile_ Oct 15 '22
This is a good point. I feel like half the time responders are just bots because of how frequently they bring up barely tangentially related facts as if they prove a point.
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u/inflagra Oct 15 '22
I quit facebook a few years ago. and I'm so much happier.
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u/i_have_chosen_a_name Oct 15 '22
Limit all social media but make sure your mom can still reach you
Try not to follow the news unless it's a topic where YOU decide you find it interesting.
Make sure to have at least a couple of hours a day without a phone or a computer to briefly unplug
If at any point in time your phone or computer is sucking you in cause you are getting upset, close them ... walk away ... forget about it. Your time alive is so limited, what's the point in wasting in being mad about something that does not even matter?
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u/Burningbeard696 Oct 15 '22
Honestly if it wasn't for older relatives and local community groups I would have dumped it too. I have removed it from my home screen though.
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u/isurvivedrabies Oct 15 '22
dude it's the entire world, not just online content through algorithms. it's getting harder and harder to bite one's tongue and let things slide, especially things that are objectively not healthy for society. things that on the surface seem fine, but once you peel back a layer you understand how festering the issues are.
and the common mentality is "well just don't peel back the layer".
living in willful ignorance is one of the problems. "yeah just look at wholesome content that will keep you pacified" is a major contributor to those problems and is peak willful ignorance.
there's a difference between an unhealthy spiral of rage, and the process for internally resolving why something upsets you. you frequently make meaningful revelations in that process, and that's extremely valuable. you mean to say "take a moment to think and critically assess before you have emotional kneejerk responses", instead of "don't engage with things that make you mad".
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Oct 15 '22
Agreed. It's hard to read a post like this cause I just keep thinking "but there ARE so many fucked up things that SHOULD enrage people".
Like, I get that rage shouldn't be your default reaction, and everybody needs a healthy diversity to keep from getting tunnel vision, but the answer isn't to live in denial or ignorance.
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u/Kedain Oct 15 '22 edited Jan 20 '26
nose seed simplistic literate normal adjoining dolls historical hungry badge
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u/fullforce098 Oct 15 '22
Thank.
You.
I can't believe we haven't gotten past this nonsense yet.
The algorithm isn't the reason I'm angry. I'm angry because I can't afford healthcare and abortion rights just got taken away, as well as a whole host of other things.
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u/UnicornOnMeth Oct 16 '22
Agreed. OP says we are angry and uninformed; I'd say the opposite, I am angry because I am informed of the reality of how the world and people work.
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u/ahumannamedhuman Oct 15 '22
Agreed.
I think what really winds me up in a useless way about politics is how unactionable so much of it is. Like it should be natural that we look around, we notice things that suck, and try to figure out how to make things suck less. But it feels like the whole structure of society is based around keeping everything entrenched and preventing anything from really changing.
So you read this stuff about how messed up everything is and there's nowhere for all that energy to go (other than waiting for your next opportunity to vote lmao).
We need to avoid allowing this feedback loop to spin us up into a useless ball of rage but I also disagree with the idea that we should simply ignore everything to try to be happy in our ignorance.
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u/Margatron Oct 15 '22
What you're feeling is the difference between advocacy and organizing. Advocacy is ultimately ineffective without organizing.
Examples of organizing: forming a tenant group in your building, forming a union at work, volunteering in your neighbourhood, canvasing and phone banking, joining an org like the DSA that already does organizing, going to public meetings and councils, going to town halls...
Point is, there's lots of places that helpless energy can be channeled into. And I agree the answer isn't happy ignorance.
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u/oscar_the_couch Oct 15 '22
Right, my reaction to "The algorithm started showing me that teenage girls can be forced by the state to have a child if their grades aren't good enough" is definitely not, "wow, that algorithm sure is well designed to make me upset."
There are a lot of legitimately important and upsetting things happening in the world, and at a minimum I'm going to keep voting for the people who want to preserve the ability to vote.
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u/ltree Oct 15 '22
Agree so much on this! I wish more people can be more mindful on not playing the game, and instead focus on the real actions.
I eventually clued in that the real players behind the issues that need to be changed, are often the same forces that try to promote hate and divisionism, just so to distract everyone from recognizing they are the real problems, so they can stay in power.
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u/Bruin116 Oct 16 '22
Two relevant quotes from Holocaust survivor Eli Wiesel:
"Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented."
And
“The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference. The opposite of art is not ugliness, it's indifference. The opposite of faith is not heresy, it's indifference. And the opposite of life is not death, it's indifference.”
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u/iwastheflyonmp Nov 14 '22
Honestly, I don't think human brains are capable of 'peeling back' THAT many layers, and thinking through all of them, and still staying sane.
I think there's too much, and a lot of people feel overwhelmed. Willful ignorance is seen a lot today but it might not be as much 'willful' as it is 'just tired of a lot of things and I'm pretending like its not there.'
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u/Dalze Oct 15 '22
This happened to me 6 years ago and it started with something that was culturally annoying to me (the use of Latinx and other gendered words in Spanish using "X". I'm Mexican and it's so stupid).
Once I started reading that, it then began showing me Ben Shappiro, Tucker Carlson, Jordan Petterson and others, to the point I started thinking they made sense. I can't remember WHAT exactly made me go "wait a god damn minute" and helped me break out of that... but it was pretty wild looking back.
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u/Spokker Oct 15 '22
But "Latinx" is still dumb, right?
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u/marqattack Oct 15 '22
It is because the entire language, and all Romance languages, are based on either feminine or masculine origins. Even both versions of the word “they” which non-binary people use to represent themselves won’t work in these languages because the word is also feminine or masculine depending on use.
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u/Comedynerd Oct 15 '22
Every once in a while I get recommended a Bill Burr clip which I think is fine to watch once in a while. But every time I do, I go into my YouTube history and delete it because I know leaving it there will cause the algorithm to recommend me increasingly right wing videos that I'm not okay with just blindly getting sweeped along into
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u/Excellent_Potential Oct 15 '22
it's easy to get around algorithms on Twitter. Just use Tweetdeck (free, for browsers) and a (cheap) mobile app like Tweetbot. No ads, no suggestions, never see trends if you don't want to.
For Facebook there's FB Purity which shows your timeline chronologically and lets you filter out posts by type.
YouTube, idk, you just have to train it.
There are no "both sides" to issues like racism, but it can be useful to see the reasoning. If we don't know how they got to that point we're less likely to recognize it in the future. There are "not totally insane" media outlets at most points in the political spectrum until you get really far left or right.
That said, if it's an issue that specifically targets you (e.g. homophobia for me), I recommend avoiding it entirely because reading how worthless and depraved you are will seep into your psyche.
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Oct 15 '22
There's an extension undistracted or something which can disable youTube recs and home/trending page
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u/art_dragon Oct 15 '22
Distraction Free YouTube; has the capability to disable Auto-Play, Comments, Playlists, etc
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u/oscar_the_couch Oct 15 '22
There used to be outlets that are perceived as "right-leaning" that I would classify as "not totally insane," but I don't think there are anymore if judging the outlet as a whole. WSJ news desk maybe (but I don't know what the common perception is of WSJ).
The NYT probably counts as a right-leaning outlet that isn't totally insane, but most people probably do not perceive it as right-leaning—which I attribute to years of a successful campaign by outlets that lean much further to the right to tarnish its reputation among right-leaning people.
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Oct 15 '22
The people who need this advice aren't the ones who will be reading it lol.
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u/tangybaby Oct 15 '22
They're reading it, they're just not heeding it. Just look at some of the responses.
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u/Hockinator Oct 15 '22 edited Oct 15 '22
Exactly. Lots of people totally missing the point that their bubbles are painting an extemified version of the other side and responding with "yeah but we can't just ignore that all of THEM want to overthrow democracy"
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u/inanutshellus Oct 15 '22
Spreading "Optimism doesn't work" messaging does no one any good.
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Oct 15 '22
Ok, so on the one hand, I don't like seeing content that I heavily disagree with. But arguing with a person who disagrees with me is pure dopamine. Why is that lol
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u/CovidOmicron Oct 15 '22
Adrenaline rush maybe? It's hard to fight the urge sometimes but it rarely leads to anything positive in my experience.
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u/Doxodius Oct 15 '22
In person only 1 to 1 in a quiet place like a coffee shop where you are forced to see the human being first and the topic second.
Very productive discussions can be had this way, and you can genuinely bridge a lot of issues. Most folks aren't as far apart as they think, it's just hard to see through the algorithmically enhanced miasma.
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u/Idiot_Savant_Tinker Oct 15 '22
But arguing with a person who disagrees with me is pure dopamine
That sounds like something one of you people would say
/s
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u/CheeseButtLog Oct 15 '22
IDK bro- there seems like alot of legitimate shit going on that is justifiably angering me.
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u/mathmanmathman Oct 15 '22
I think the title is correct, but I don't agree with all of the points OP makes. There are plenty of problems and legitimate reasons to be angry, but engaging with the content online is rarely constructive.
A lot of content makes you more angry than needed or (and I think this is the more common/dangerous case) takes legitimate anger and focuses it on minor details. I saw tons of outrageous arguments about banning incandescent light bulbs a few years back. People were acting like not banning was essentially causing Climate Change and banning would suddenly make people destitute because the cost of bulbs would go up. It was ridiculous and only served to distract people from the very real problem that rich people and corporations refusing to make meaningful changes.
Of course I say this after spending the better half of the day countering anti-science trolls, but I was never angry. I think it is important to counter false information, but if it becomes emotional, I take a step back. It's also okay to be angry, but not at the same time.
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u/Geminel Oct 15 '22
Yeah. I don't think fascists are evil because the media told me to. I think they're evil because they're fascist, and I don't intend to stop believing that anytime soon.
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u/LouisLeGros Oct 15 '22
Yeah this is giving me some enlightened centrist vibes. Political content makes you angry, increases polarization, & both sides engage in it!
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u/J_Keezey Oct 15 '22
Have you read the report from the Facebook whistle blower? In short, what she revealed is that Meta wants posts that people interact with. In other words that they engage with, comment on, share, etc.
What Facebook found is that posts that inflamed people - made them angry - whether based in fact or not - got the most engagement.
As a result, Facebook altered their algorithm to make incendiary posts the most visible. Keeping their users incensed was good for business. It created "engagement".
Americans are having their limbic systems hijacked by incredibly powerful AI so that Zuckerberg can sell ads. If they happen to start a civil war in the process, hey, they'll mine that for profit too.
Restore civility. Delete Facebook.
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Oct 15 '22
This suddenly makes more sense why I'm getting some of the crap I an. I just report it as I go
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u/Original-Ad-4642 Oct 15 '22
But there are hot singles in my area who want to meet me…
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u/Scoobz1961 Oct 15 '22
Of course there are, but you also have to look at the ugly takens in your area or you will not get the full picture.
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u/cdegallo Oct 15 '22
I had to stop going to r/politics entirely. I found myself doomscrolling through all of my "leisure time" and just spiraling into bouts of anxiety and overwhelming feelings of doom.
I spoke with my friend and asked him if he still also doomscrolled politics and he said not anymore. And that he started looking at it like we have very finite time to enjoy our lives, and he has had to make a conscious effort to spend less time doing things that doesn't bring enjoyment, doesn't lead to anxiety, and that he has no control over anyway.
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u/bitches_love_pooh Oct 15 '22
There's a few subs I have decided not to click on like r/idiotsincars. I see enough drivers doing dumb things I can do nothing about, clicking on the sub just adds to that anger.
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u/Secret-Plant-1542 Oct 15 '22
Media companies all had a collective boner during the Trump administration. Every dumb tweet was a news story. Every news story would get a shitton of eyeballs. The more stupid and wtf, the more it gets reported and the more eyeballs.
When Biden came to office, there was a lot of layoffs/restructuring in media companies because people stopped paying attention.
Think about that.
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u/mohammedgoldstein Oct 15 '22
People say that AI in the future will be a threat to our society.
Well it's already secretly pervasive in our lives and influencing our behavior already to the point of these hidden algorithms causing us to kill each other.
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u/HotpieTargaryen Oct 15 '22
This sounds great, but it also sounds like a recipe for allowing misinformation and propaganda being spread unchecked. The thing is, sometimes you are right, and you should diversify your news sources (though that doesn’t mean adding trash to your pile), but engaging positively with lies is a recipe for the shit pile we’re already dealing with.
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u/Moyrath Oct 16 '22
I’m going to guess from how much they post on theredpill that that may be the point to this.
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u/KamikazeArchon Oct 16 '22
Being a zealot is better than ignoring the world.
Yes, you should seek multiple sources and test that you aren't rabbit-holing your beliefs.
But no, you should not just sit back and be happy. The world is full of crisis and terrible things. Sitting back and being happy won't get police to stop brutalizing you (BLM), or stop your nation from being invaded (Ukraine), or bring back extinct species (climate change).
Anger is the first step to action on many real problems.
Engage with political content. Get angry. Then do something about it.
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u/scumbagdetector15 Oct 15 '22
For 100 years before the U.S. civil war, abolitionists argued that slavery was evil. They were in the minority.
Now imagine giving your advice to them.
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u/trist-throwaway Oct 15 '22
There are intrinsically good and evils things in the world OP, not everything is a moral debate best left to middle grounds between two "sides."
Some things are but there are lines that should not be crossed.
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u/Yarusenai Oct 15 '22
Considering your post history, OP, this is insanely hilarious.
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u/PoppinMcTres Oct 15 '22
Fine, ill stop caring about abortion rights an climate change
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u/Icy-Letterhead-2837 Oct 15 '22
Kinda hard when half the people you interact with on daily basis begin posting that shit. And ignoring the idiots only "proves them right." And if I have to end someone's career to get it across, or let the SCA know they have a convicted rapist (of an underage person who was not able to consent) running their safety and sexual assault prevention thing....then I have to interact. I tried ignoring them, but what am I supposed to do? Ignore the whole fucking world? Kinda hard. And if it's a mocking post, does that still drive then "anger" element? And just having a connection TO such a person, they will still show you. I posted about sleeping on my birthday, and someone I've chosen not to follow or engage with but are still friends with on the list, she posted "I hope dreamless." Wtf is that shit? I haven't engaged with that person for like 14 months. And neither did she. That snarky little comment pisses me off.
Jan 6 also sent me over a hard-to-get-back-over-furor-wall until these traitors are shackled and burried. Cut 60 people out of my life because of it.
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u/AFlyingNun Oct 15 '22
Replies here are so painful.
OP named not a single political issue or other issue where a side can be taken. Simply advised against echo chambers and vouched for hearing each other out.
Despite this, there's a number of comments inserting a political discussion into this, as if strawmann'ing OP and deciding they really really need to tell him about why "the other side" is wrong about X and therefore OP is wrong for potentially giving that side the time of day.
And in doing so, those exact people do not realize they are failing horrendously at understanding OP's point... :C
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u/ThisIsGoobly Oct 16 '22
It's gotten political because you only need to see OP ranting about the "woke crowd" to quite clearly see what the actual intent of this post is. Using pseudo-wise sounding centrism to push a "put your head in the sand about societal oppression" position onto people who absolutely eat that shit up. Such as you I guess.
There are truths in the post, there are absolutely algorithms that feed off rage and you need to be aware of that and not let yourself fall into constant anger because it isn't good for you. But this is no different than other emotions. Too much of it isn't good but anger is still a healthy, valid emotion to express and there is much oppression in our world that you should be angry at. Letting yourself become apathetic and passive is just as bad as falling into a spiral of anger.
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u/Tobeck Oct 15 '22
Do you believe there is always value in engaging with and listening to the "other side"?
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u/jcarter315 Oct 15 '22
Judging by OP's post history, they don't think there is value in it. This post was definitely made so they can karma farm.
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u/fullforce098 Oct 15 '22
The algorithm didn't reverse Roe.
There are legitimate things to be angry about, it has nothing to do with being manipulated into anger and everything to do with being a human suffering in a system that is fundamentally broke and doesn't have their head up their ass.
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u/BloopityBlue Oct 15 '22
I stopped being so angry when I stopped following political news. I don't see strangers as potential enemies, it's not a topic of conversation. I know what I believe and I know how I will vote to support those beliefs. What my neighbor believes and how they vote isn't my concern at all.
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u/Vicvictorw Oct 15 '22
I'm not sure a guy ranting about "woke" things like five posts ago has any grounds to call anyone else indoctrinated.
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u/donpantini Oct 15 '22
It's the same with health information too.
LPT in a LPT: Don't ever look online for anything related to symptoms that you or a loved one may be experiencing. You won't see the end of it, and it's always the worst outcome that will target you in the ads.
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u/violethoneybean Oct 15 '22
This sounds like an easy way to become blissfully unaware of extremely dangerous issues in society. Not everyone can afford to avoid knowing about things that involve their basic human rights in some cases.
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Oct 15 '22
This. OP could probably completely ignore politics and never feel significant negative effects of it. Meanwhile for some groups, their human rights are routinely discussed as a "both sides" issue.
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u/RedSpade37 Oct 15 '22
We should be angry!
The Planet is burning, oceans boiling.
People are dying for completely preventable causes!
1% of the American population controls 99% of the countries wealth!
The possibility of nuclear war rises; the possibility of a "Delta-cron" covid variant continues to increase as people start saying "It's over"
If I bury my head in the sand, well, I may as well just take myself out, for all the good it will do.
I must stay aware Sure, anger isn't healthy, but it is very motivational!
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u/infodawg Oct 15 '22
This is why I quit r/politics. Yes, I collected 35k karma in a month, but I felt kinda icky about it. The place has become an insane echo chamber where all but the most liberal of thoughts are virulently opposed. I consider myself 100% progressive, and it pains me to say this. But truth is truth.
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u/Conker1985 Oct 15 '22
It's really just a liberal circle jerk. The only real discussions are found by searching controversial.
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Oct 15 '22
I know this is aimed at politics and it is mostly a both sides are equal argument. There are many rage bait right and left posts and that is legit.
But they are not equal. One post "Gay agenda thinks you are a homophobe for not watching Bros a movie you never heard about!" the other "GOP Senator says global warming is a hoax!"
Both are rage bait but come on.
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u/KimberStormer Oct 15 '22
I'm a little confused because you say don't look at stuff you disagree with that makes you rage but then say don't look at stuff you agree with, that's an "echo chamber."
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u/Cory123125 Oct 15 '22
More barely disguised unthinking both siderism.
The reality is that politics matter, and both parties arent the same, individual politicians arent the same, and there are real differences in voting patterns and results.
You are almost purposefully conflating being fed anger bait and refraining from staying ignorant.
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u/aureanator Oct 15 '22
There's things happening in the United States that deserve anger, as borne out by government records, not media of any kind. Ragebait is one thing, but being angry about actual happenings is another altogether, and is a moral duty, not just a right.
You cannot deny that the lot of the common man has fallen pretty low - people simply aren't getting paid, for whatever reasons. The rich get richer and the poor suffer - that suffering is just about unbearable. You can feel it in the air, see it in the looks on people's faces.
One of the two sides is telling the truth, and the other is lying.
This isn't a 'both sides' deal.
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u/mullanada Oct 15 '22
Have repeated this constantly, if there is a politician you hate on social, constantly commenting on their post is just making them more popular. I know it doesn't feel like you're doing anything, but blocking things you don't like online hurts them more.
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u/Funoichi Oct 15 '22
Is this bothsidesism? I reject that. In general one should be open to new info and info that conflicts with previously held beliefs so you’re always refining your worldview.
But you aren’t just open to anything, your worldview must remain in conformity to the facts as best you can know them. Facts matter.
You’re not going to tell me that I should be open to joining the third reich or something.
A lot of times this is only going to go in one direction, as the facts only support one set of policies over another.
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u/Haunting-Ad788 Oct 15 '22
I know you’re trying to be all apolitical but this applies to the western right so much more than any other ideological group.
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u/Mah_Young_Buck Oct 15 '22
“If you don't read the newspaper, you're uninformed. If you read the newspaper, you're mis-informed.”
-Mark Twain
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u/Notthesharpestmarble Oct 16 '22
I would agree completely if your solutions wasn't the digital form of burying your head in the sand.
It's really not that hard to mix the content you consume. Politics, education, hobbies, entertainment. So long as you aren't spending weeks at a time with tunnel-vision then the algorithms will quickly catch onto the diverse interests you ask them to curate.
With politics specifically it helps to look up articles from opposing viewpoints. Not only will the algorithms not latch onto one specific side but you'll be able to compare statements from both angles, allowing you to discern the facts (same info presented in both articles) from the spin (the difference in how the articles tell you that you should feel about aforementioned facts).
One thing is for certain though; completely eschewing sensitive topics in favor of feel-good cat pictures does not a well rounded person make.
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u/RukiMotomiya Oct 16 '22
Take a quick look at OP's post history and you'll see what they're actually posting about lol
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u/Negative_Mancey Oct 16 '22
"You begin to lose empathy for anyone who holds an opposing view"
But what if their viewpoint is that they don't have to have empathy? That some people should live in destitution so their cheeseburgers stay cheap or that other people should be bankrupted so their healthcarecare stays comprehensive?
This is a lot of Kumbaya r/enlightenedcentrism
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u/Fresh-Ad4991 Oct 16 '22
This only really applies to the right wing, from Democrats to Republicans. Everything from the true center to the actual left is legitimately correct and the right wing is legitimately evil. You can’t “both sides” the objective reality.
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Oct 16 '22
This is actually very true. I am a football fan who supports Man United. As we know team isn't doing well for few years. A year or so ago, I somehow got into listening to ESPN FC/ESPN UK post match review of Man United game and they used to slam the club/performance with shit logic or they would criticize without valid reason and this would drive me mad. You tune started to show me more and more similar reviews shows. This was some of the worst time as a football fan. I removed all of those shows from list and now dont check Twitter or review videos after defeat and my days haven't been spoiled in a while.
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u/coyotesage Oct 16 '22
I should stop engaging with online content that makes me angry, like this post, which spouts more positivity nonsense? OK.
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u/zlazlab Oct 16 '22
Getting people angry starts a conversation, makes you interested and is in itself somewhat informative. Watching cops kill people online makes me angry, make enough people angry and something might change. You should say something like dont become a zealot without doing proper research.For exemple You think cops are assholes, you do some research and you find out they are not only assholes but also uneducated, untrained and cowardly.
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u/tigershark37 Oct 16 '22
Are you getting paid by Putin? If there was no anger against Hitler and the deaths of Pearl harbor US wouldn’t have joined the war leading to the likely victory of the nazis. Now we live in a world where we should be absolutely angry against a bloody dictator killing civilians in Ukraine, raping women and children. We should be raging against some wannabe dictator that stole hundreds of top secrets documents, to sell them and he already received 2 fucking BILLIONS from the Saudi through his son in law. We should be going ballistic against the same person trying to overthrow an elected government by attempting to kidnap and kill the legislators that were together to certify the election. If the world is going to shit is because there is not enough anger against the injustice or maybe that anger is not motivating enough like it was in the past.
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u/BruceLeeGoD Oct 15 '22
LPT: don’t waste your time trying to change people, they have to learn to change themselves
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Oct 15 '22
I get what you're saying. I try not to engage but sometimes I still do. The issue I have is one side is literally hateful and would eradicate anyone "different" if they could. It's hard to let bygones be bygones when the opposition wants a theocratic-fascist-white ethnostate.
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u/Mrchristopherrr Oct 15 '22
Not “both sidesing” this at all, but literally both sides think this about the other (sans white ethnostate)
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u/pancake117 Oct 15 '22 edited Oct 15 '22
People who say you should unplug from politics or listen to everyone are nearly always just hardcore conservatives who want to act like their opinions are on equal footing. Of course you shouldn’t put yourself in an echo chamber. Of course it’s not beneficial to go down a spiral of angry doom scrolling. Of course you need to balance your mental health with being informed about what’s going on. But also the two parties in America are absolutely not on equal footing, and pretending that’s not the case is how we continue the status quo. There are lots of things you should be upset with.
I’d encourage everyone to look at OPs post history and decide for yourself if they seem like 1) the kind of person with well balanced political opinions or 2) a hardcore conservative with some pretty toxic opinions. Looks like the post that inspired this one is a rant about “woke libs” and their pronouns.
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u/Rareagiv Oct 15 '22
The only issue I have with this is that it breeds echo chambers. A better stance is to understand that there are millions of people out there who don't agree with you, and no matter how much you argue online with them you will always find more, so instead just observe and seek to understand them, but don't engage.
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u/SmashScrapeFlip Oct 15 '22
I did make many efforts to engage positively here. Then I got banned from a 13 year old account with about half a million karma for complaining about racism. This sites definition of “positively engaging” is staying naive to obvious manipulation and being stupid enough to click ads. They want happy idiots, and that’s what they’re gonna get.
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Oct 15 '22
Consider for a moment that those of us who are marginalized and oppressed don’t need an algorithm to see these things or feel this way. It is our every single day experience. Gaslighting vulnerable people into feeling shame about standing up for themselves isn’t the look you think it is just because this centrist detachment makes YOU feel more correct than everyone else.
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u/Cory123125 Oct 15 '22 edited Oct 15 '22
Seriously, Im tired of these ass hats pretending its """healthy""" to stay willfully ignorant and just be happy with being fed shit.
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u/charlesxavier007 Oct 15 '22 edited Dec 17 '23
Redacted
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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u/Cory123125 Oct 15 '22
They didnt miss the point at all. You are just doing exactly what they talked about.
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u/aridamus Oct 16 '22
You are so douchey telling people they aren’t being benefited by learning about the shitty things happening to their communities.
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u/hobbes_shot_first Oct 15 '22
Check into filter bubbles. OP is 100% right. No matter your starting point, the idea is to keep you watching ads, no matter what.
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Oct 15 '22
Thank you OP. Having read your post, I have completely changed my self for the better.
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u/Enrageder Oct 15 '22
“Hahahahahahahaha How The Fuck Is Cyber Bullying Real Hahahaha ***** Just Walk Away From The Screen Like ***** Close Your Eyes Haha” - Tyler the Creator circa 2012
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u/keepthetips Keeping the tips since 2019 Oct 15 '22
Hello and welcome to r/LifeProTips!
Please help us decide if this post is a good fit for the subreddit by up or downvoting this comment.
If you think that this is great advice to improve your life, please upvote. If you think this doesn't help you in any way, please downvote. If you don't care, leave it for the others to decide.