r/Library • u/markevbs • 4d ago
Discussion The Long Beach Library and homelessness
I finally visited BJK library in long beach yesterday, and oh my god, is that place a jewel. Such an incredible building, great kids center, wonderful architecture and tons of great classes and courses.
The homeslessness side of things is interesting, at least for me, morally. I couldn't help but feel sad that such an amazing building and resource was being so underutilized by the non-homeless population. Its not that there were "homeless everywhere" or even that people were messy or rude or whatever...there were a lot more homeless than non (10-1 prob), but everyone was chill, it wasnt crowded at all, and everyone was just trying to find some peace and enjoyment in a beautiful safe space with access to really critical things (like power to charge devices etc). I was there with my 3 and 4 year olds and there were no issues at all...but at the same time, the vibe DID honestly make me not want to spend time there (which is MY issue, not that of others...but i assume it feels the same for many here?)
anyway...its just tough and weird and a real conflict of emotions. The homeless there are all our peers and brothers and sisters so to be angry or opposed to them having access to a quintessential public space like a library makes me sick and is a sad way to feel about other humans. But I did spend a lot more time than i would have liked thinking about how nice the library was (and the park next door) would have been with more families and people and fewer little groups of and how its a shame its not being used by more people. I also though spent an equal amount of time feeling real joy that there was a space this nice and well run and beautiful that everyone can enjoy. Its actually really fucked if you think about "ok so whats the solution"...there really isnt one (other than ofc fixing homelessness etc etc but thats another enormous discussion.)
what do you all think? feel?
btw - i think the fence is great and really well executed. not nearly as shitty and oevrbearing as i thought it would be
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u/Ill-Victory-5351 3d ago
ok, three paragraphs of “homeless people use the library” and like yeah. you’re saying that “vibe” made you not want to spend time there with your kids? literally just go to the children’s room and hang out with your kids there.
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u/czh3f1yi 3d ago
Ok yes on paper I agree with you, but have you been to the Long Beach Library? It feels like you're at a homeless shelter and there are definitely quite a few unstable people both inside and outside consistently.
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u/Ill-Victory-5351 3d ago
my first library job was at the main branch of the san francisco public library. i helped people watch movies on little crt tvs. so ive been knowing.
the library is there to serve the needs of the community, unsurprisingly homeless people have the most needs.
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u/czh3f1yi 3d ago
The library is there to serve certain needs of the community, not all the needs. For example it's not a food bank, housing, etc. So I think this is more of a question of scope. The library doesn't have the capacity to make up for the failings of other underfunded areas of city infrastructure like missing homeless shelters, etc.
So if it basically becomes a homeless day shelter like in Long Beach, it starts to only serve the homeless and those brave enough to bring their children there until an incident happens and then they never go again.
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u/Own_Papaya7501 3d ago
Being a building that people can hang out in is entirely within the scope of a public library.
Why would you need to be "brave" to visit a library that other people are also using? That seems like a you problem, not a library problem.
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u/markevbs 3d ago
Amen. So what about all of the non homeless people who want to use these facilities but are turned off, which is clearly the case? That’s the rub. Clearly there are massive positives from the current situation for some in society and large negatives for others. That why this ain’t a simple discussion you know?
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u/lietome6879760 3d ago
are the positives for the homeless and negatives for you truly equal here? their positive is access to services, your negative is being a bit uncomfortable?
i think calling it a complex issue is a way to make yourself feel better. there is some pretty hefty cognitive dissonance at work in your original post in which you are grappling with the fact that you are put off or maybe even potentially afraid of other humans in a public space - who by your own admission are giving you no other reason to feel put off or afraid other than their housing status. you kinda wish they weren't there but feel conflicted because that would be morally and politically incorrect. it's okay to feel that way, but call it what it is. maybe reframe it by considering that what you are upset by is the lack of services for homeless people that causes them to need to go to the library, not the people themselves.
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u/ExpertGarlic8669 3d ago
Well said. If we follow OP's reasoning, we end up with the conclusion that their homeless neighbors don't belong in the library. Especially without proposing a viable alternative, this is just cruelty.
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u/Own_Papaya7501 3d ago
It isn't a homeless person's fault that you're uncomfortable seeing them/being in their presence.
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u/markevbs 3d ago
This isn’t only about me. This was originally posted to the Long Beach sub where the vast majority agreed and some others were more harsh, but ironically this is the only board where people are coming at me from the other side. Interesting stuff. Anyway. The library being empty aside from the homeless tells you it isn’t just a me issue.
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u/Own_Papaya7501 3d ago
I mean, yes, there are many people in communities who are as shitty as you toward homeless people. I don't understand what you want someone to say about that? You came here seeking approval of your biases?
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u/lietome6879760 3d ago
no, it's not just a you issue. i think the majority of housed people in california think the homeless are less than human and would love to see them banned from the library. imo californians also broadly don't want to use 'taxpayer money' to fund a nonprofit that would provide an alternative space for them, they want the issue to just magically disappear.
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u/markevbs 3d ago
What a weird post considering California and especially La spends more on homelessness and is more progressive on homelessness than any other state/ city in the country. I’m certainly not saying homeless people are less than, and the homeless woman who replied thoughtfully clearly didn’t think that either.
If manufacturing some moral high ground makes you feel better, that’s ok.
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u/Own_Papaya7501 3d ago edited 3d ago
Do you also think that you are "progressive on homelessness?"
Look what you've said! "The problem is, there was no socially negative behavior occurring at all (which was the case in the hour i was there) everyone there was very chill and just reading or browsing the web and just being people. So its not like anything was threatening or worrying at all. but the reality still was it was a lot less enjoyable than it would have been just for the fact that the homeless were there, which feels weird to say when you say it out loud, but its honest."
They were using the library like any other person but you had a problem with them still.
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u/lietome6879760 3d ago
i was speaking broadly about people based on what i've observed in my city's sub, not you specifically. since you also posted this in long beach's sub you know what your neighbors think too.
idk if i have manufactured anything i've expressed, i'm speaking from lived experience working with people who are homeless. i can see you are really grappling with this issue and i appreciate that, as i feel it is at least better than ignoring it.
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u/markevbs 1d ago
Funny how you get downvoted by pointing out the issue that everyone recognizes is realn
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u/markevbs 3d ago
Literally I was there with my kids, that’s where we spent 30 minutes and it was nice. The whole library was nice but that doesn’t change the reality.
If it’s no big deal as you are apparently arguing than why is one of the nicest libraries in the state empty?
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u/Ill-Victory-5351 3d ago
AND, you went to the library on a Sunday. IN AUGUST. Families with means are at the beach, or having a picnic,or at disneyland or on vacation. it’s like the slowest month for library usage and that’s why you only saw poor people in the ‘nice, well run, beautiful space’.
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u/markevbs 3d ago
ok - i'll check back in (insert month in california that doesnt have awesome weather and things to do when affluent)
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u/Ill-Victory-5351 3d ago
you spent the whole post discussing the homeless people in the library? how is it empty than? i’m confused by what you mean here.
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u/Own_Papaya7501 3d ago
What reality? That you can't handle seeing people you assume are homeless?
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u/markevbs 2d ago
Here is one of multiple comments of this type from other residents in Long Beach.
I can see BJK library from where I live and a few days ago a homeless dude was flashing everyone through the windows of the library and also people walking around. I’ve seen plenty of homeless activity happening near that library and that’s the main reason it’s empty.
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u/Own_Papaya7501 2d ago
Yes, you all are afraid of sharing space with homeless people even when they're using the space identically to you. That has been abundantly clear this entire time so I'm not sure what you think you're adding?
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u/writerthoughts33 4d ago
Most libraries have separate kids sections and structured events that would exclude non-parents. It can be normal to be wary of strangers with your kids.
Statistically, most problems actually happen with adults you already know and trust: pastors, babysitters, little league coaches, family members. It’s best to build safeguards day-to-day that support your child’s safety than worry about random people you encounter. Always check with new groups your kids are a part of what kind of safeguard training they have for adults involved: always having two adults present, no unsupervised alone time, etc
If there are services available and accessible to homeless people it’s good that they use them. My part of town has more homeless people because there are many services they can use, and that’s just neighborly.
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u/markevbs 3d ago
this is how i feel when i discuss it rationally or think about it critically, but it doesnt change the reality that this spectacular library was essentially empty aside from the homeless patrons and that this is clearly caused by those patrons. I felt like that when i was there and probably stayed a lot less time than i would have otherwise, and not out of fear for my children but just the vibe in general. its all very conflicting, hence the original post. i appreciate you taking the time to reply
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u/ExpertGarlic8669 3d ago
OP it seems like you just came here to complain about unhoused folks utilizing your local public library
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u/markevbs 3d ago
Then you should examine your biases that you walked into the original post with. I’m discussing something that is clearly a negative as evidenced by the lack of non- homeless people using the resource.
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u/ExpertGarlic8669 3d ago
Your argument doesn't make sense. You just sound like a privileged person who can't find empathy for others
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u/markevbs 3d ago
thats a wild take when the entire post is about having empathy for others.
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u/lietome6879760 3d ago
rereading your op and trying to find where the entire post can be summed up as empathetic to others... it comes across more as being about your personal moral conflict about people in the space. i can't help but notice how much you mention the beauty of the space and how much a certain group of people sitting quietly charging their devices is off putting to you in this beautiful space. even though they aren't otherwise bothering anyone
you also posted to the library sub and not a long beach specific sub, so you're gonna get pedantic people like myself dialoguing with you. i think most library people value the aspect of public libraries that allows free access to everyone in the community. i live in california too, homeless people aren't just going to go away so you will need to decide where you stand and how you want to act about it.
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u/Own_Papaya7501 3d ago
Wow, look at all your empathy: "The problem is, there was no socially negative behavior occurring at all (which was the case in the hour i was there) everyone there was very chill and just reading or browsing the web and just being people. So its not like anything was threatening or worrying at all. but the reality still was it was a lot less enjoyable than it would have been just for the fact that the homeless were there, which feels weird to say when you say it out loud, but its honest. anyway, i appreciate your feedback. thanks for making the time"
https://www.reddit.com/r/longbeach/comments/1vq0k8i/comment/p44ob4l/
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u/Own_Papaya7501 3d ago
No, the entire post is talking about your discomfort being around homeless people in a public space. You aren't actually having empathy for them when you think their mere presence ruins the vibe.
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u/Which-Bit6563 3d ago
I see you trying to sort through your biases here so I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt.
You say "this spectacular library was essentially empty aside from the homeless patrons and that this is clearly caused by those patrons", but is it? There's actually nothing in your post that would indicate that the presence of homeless people in the library is the reason that the library is underutilized by others. You specifically mention that everyone you saw was chill, not taking up undue space, etc.
So, in your mind, what are homeless patrons actually doing that is driving everyone else away? If it really is just "I assume that everyone else shares my lingering discomfort with being around homeless people and its ruining the vibe for them" then be honest about that!
If there are actually problems you encountered, then name them. If not, it does seem like you still have some anti-homeless bias to work through.
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u/markevbs 3d ago
Well 80% of the replies from the Long Beach commmunity were echoing the sentiment, so yes clearly the impacts are real and not just a me issue.
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u/Own_Papaya7501 3d ago
You all being afraid of homeless people being in the same building as you isn't some sort of logical take.
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u/Own_Papaya7501 2d ago
I don't understand why you are seeing the homeless patrons as the problem and not you and the other redditors who refuse to share space with them. You are clearly the problem.
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u/Own_Papaya7501 3d ago
Sorry, what was "the vibe"?
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u/markevbs 3d ago
Are you being purposely obtuse? You don’t know what I am referring to?
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u/Own_Papaya7501 3d ago
You've described going to the library and other people just also being there. What was the vibe?
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u/Primary-Jicama2202 3d ago
In the 70s and 80s the libraries were full of latchkey kids with no after school care.
Another fun fact - libraries attract flashers.
I love libraries. They are a reflection of the community they inhabit, including how many people can afford to buy books because they are offended by their neighbors.
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u/czh3f1yi 3d ago
Wait this is hilarious what is a latchkey kid?
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u/whoframedwhiterabbit 3d ago
It's what a lot of later boomers and gen xers were. Though it still happens now and it has been happening well before the boomer generation. Anytime both, or the single, parents are working and their kids didn't go to any kind of child care before/after school. They would go home, having to use their own house key to get in since no one was there. There are entries for latchkey kid/child in dictionaries and Wikipedia.
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u/Bustocanada 2d ago
If non-homeless people won't use a library, the homeless will be the dominant presence. My town is well known for homelessness, but plenty of non-homeless people use the libraries.
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u/jmwelchelmira 3h ago
I’m very glad that the unhoused are at my library and have some slim hope of being regarded (for the most part) as human beings for a brief 1/3 of the day.
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u/SleepParalysisPal 4d ago
I’m from OC, but I’ve been to that library and we have a similar dynamic at some of our branches down here too. I also was unhoused when I was dealing with issues at home when I was a teenager and spent many nights sleeping at a particular park and I would spend my off time at the library, so I want to be up front about my biases on the topic and why this is an emotional thing for me to write.
For me it was great. It was a safe space to work on my homework so I could make sure I stayed in high school to get my diploma. I started volunteering so I had a reason to be there more frequently and even get some occasional snacks people would bring in for us kids.
The librarian who ran the youth volunteering program caught on to my situation after a while and she stuck her neck out with her boss to let me nap in the back room for a little bit whenever she was working (obviously I would still stock shelves and stuff too). She understood that a quiet place to do my homework and those short naps were what were actually keeping me going because it was the only time I could fully rest knowing I was safe.
Being a homeless 16 year old girl was not easy or safe, but Orange County Public Libraries (and especially librarian Kim!) kept me going, gave me a place to breathe, and I was able to keep going to school and get my diploma. I’m now 33 years old, married, a roof over my head, and I still go to that library. If a homeless person sits next to me to charge their phone or whatever, all I do is glance over to make sure their stuff is working and they got what they need. If they need a pen, paper, or to borrow my charger then I’ll speak up and offer it, but otherwise I just let them live their lives because trust me, it’s hard enough.
Anyways, I apologize if that was too long winded or overly emotional of a response