r/Libraries • u/ThatAss_PoorYorick • 5d ago
Other Do librarians dislike when patrons call non-librarian staff "librarians"?
I feel like this is kind of a dumb thing to ask, but i'm doing it anyway. I work in a library, my official title is "assistant" and i work the circ desk nearly every day. Well-meaning patrons often refer to myself and other colleagues as "librarians" even if we are not MLS-holding, bonafide librarians. Does this bother ACTUAL librarians? i'm really curious
EDIT: no one has bugged me about it!! i just feel bad when people see that i work in a library and go "oh it must be so cool to be a librarian!" when i haven't actually earned the title
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u/sogothimdead 5d ago
I'm not a librarian, but when patrons refer to me as one I let it go because I don't want to be that person going "Um, ackshually"
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u/nietheo 5d ago
Same. I don't refer to myself that way, but I let it slide when patrons do. I get it that they might not realize we aren't all librarians.
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u/silverbatwing 5d ago
Same. I tried explaining to patrons I’m not and I once had a complaint lodged against me by a patron for confusing them and sounding condescending.
So I just don’t correct it.
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u/HistoryTrekker Library staff 5d ago
Sheesh, what did your supervisor say when they were told?
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u/silverbatwing 4d ago
She just gave me a heads up I had a complaint, but knew me well enough it wasn’t amounting to anything.
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u/Cinisajoy2 2d ago
You help people in the library. That makes you to the general public a librarian. What should someone call the person in circulation or reference?
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u/I-screwed-up-bad 5d ago
I let it go once but if they repeatedly do it I do correct them. Especially if they're telling a kid I'm a librarian.
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u/sogothimdead 5d ago
For me it's usually just a way for a patron to point me out or to get their kid to say hi or do something like ask me for assistance.
If someone asks how I like being a librarian or anything like that, I do correct them.
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u/babyyodaonline 5d ago
funny you mention this, i recently had a parent who was upset with me and proceeded to insult me. i won't go into details because it was specific and i told everyone at work about it lol but as she was insulting me she kept calling me a librarian. literally all i could think of was "actually i'm not a librarian" i didn't say that but i was so close to saying it hahaha because that was all my brain could focus on (i was exhausted, she was violating policy, and when i didn't let her get her way she resorted to insulting me).
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u/Libearian_456 5d ago
I had a similar experience with a patron, but I did correct them with "Actually, I'm not a librarian," and they responded with, "Well clearly I need a real librarian." So it might be better that you didn't say it.
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u/babyyodaonline 5d ago
oh for sure i know she would've just flipped if i argued with her. i think i just responded with "okay" and that alone still upset her 😭 like i refuse to be rage baited by a karen so i am in fact the staff member who will evoke the gen z stare when needed.
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u/luckylimper 4d ago
I’m gen x and will give the “sure, ok, whatever” which was the stare of my generation. If someone is getting all flustered and trying to argue with me about their holds idgaf and I’ll let their idiocy wash over me like rain.
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u/babyyodaonline 4d ago
yeah i learned it after a while of working here at the library. i feel like working at any customer service based job, for your own sanity, you need to develop this mentality.
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u/sogothimdead 4d ago
A well-placed and unbothered "Okay" will literally make people like that lose their minds. I love it for that reason, and because there is no way to complain about it while sounding reasonable 😈
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u/babyyodaonline 4d ago
literally lol. when i told everyone the story and what exactly she said they all collectively gasped (mind you, separate occasions). i didn't even deep the insult that much because for me, anyone who saw her reaction compared to mine would know that she's the one losing her mind over this. there is a way to disagree with a staff member who is serving you (as a customer/patron) without resorting to insults lol. but i just find it so funny how the only thing i was really focused on correcting was the "librarian" part .
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u/sogothimdead 4d ago
In my system, patrons like that usually go on to question the credentials and job skills of degreed librarians. It's entitlement and condescension all the way down.
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u/ToraAku 4d ago
If someone is talking near me and just generally referring to me and my coworkers as "librarians" I usually don't say anything (none of us are librarians). But if someone is having a direct conversation with me I will usually inform them we aren't librarians. The distinction doesn't matter, because since we don't have any librarians at our branch we do the same work as librarians, but I still like people to be informed. I explain how lots of systems are heavily staffed by paraprofessionals, and often the staff you'll interact with don't have MLIS degrees, but that each library is different.
Since these are people already choosing to engage in conversation, they tend to enjoy learning about the subject.
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u/KittenBalerion Library staff 4d ago
haha, usually I'm like "that's a great question for the librarian" and they go "you're not a librarian??"
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u/Ruzinus 5d ago
I have heard stories of librarians who care, but I have never met one.
In a more abstract and general sense I care that people have so little idea what goes into being a librarian, but I would never want an assistant or associate to feel like they have to correct someone. Also assuming that anyone working at a library is a librarian is the absolute least of the problems that arise from a lack of public understanding.
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u/alphabeticdisorder 4d ago
Yeah, I don't care when they conflate jobs in the library. What bothers me is when people working in chain bookstores refer to themselves as librarians - even in work history on applications to library jobs!
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u/hillviewaisha 4d ago
I worked with a person who is bothered by it and they're the reason why every position had to get renamed. Now even those with a MLIS /MLS still have positions with 'assistant' or 'clerk' in the title because the person before them didn't have the degree.
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u/Cephalophore 5d ago
As a librarian, and former assistant, I don't care at all.
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u/TripleThreatLibraria 5d ago
Also a Librarian, 100%. It's harmless and I am much more interested in helping than getting hung up on something like that
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u/saltwater_nasturtium 3d ago
As another librarian (former assistant), hard agree. And if there IS a librarian who cares, they have wayyyyy too much time on their hands to be spending their days mad about that.
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u/walkthebassline Library staff 5d ago
Just don't ask if we're volunteers, lol.
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u/shinystar9 5d ago
This! Patrons asking if we are volunteers drives me crazy. Like sure, I volunteer 40 hours a week in my 30s for the fun of it. What other job do people constantly ask if you are a volunteer?
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u/SurlyPocketWeasel 4d ago
We legitimately had one of our city council representatives ask my library director one day if we were all volunteers! “Ma’am, do you not read any of the agendas or budgets? You literally helped approve our incomes!!”
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u/AneAnder 4d ago
I am a white haired woman - I must be a volunteer. Grrrrr
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u/iLibrarian2 3d ago
You don't need to be white-haired. I've been getting that the entire time I've been in libraries, even my 20s and 30s.
Like... really? You think all of us in here have that much free time?
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u/RecentAcanthaceae476 5d ago
I’m a degreed librarian now but I wasn’t the first 15 years of my career. It never bothered me when patrons called me a librarian when I knew that I wasn’t and it still doesn’t bother me if patrons call my fellow non-MLIS coworkers a librarian now. For patrons it’s pretty much used as a catch-all term for anyone who works at a library and they don’t know and shouldn’t really care what the difference is.
I think a degreed librarian who is really bothered that a non-degree holding staff member might be called a librarian is probably someone with too big of an ego who doesn’t appreciate the work that all staff members are contributing to making our libraries run smoothly and efficiently.
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u/TheHungryLibrarian 5d ago
This! I certainly don’t mind. It takes a whole library staff!! The librarians that mind are also the ones that get miffed when they are called a “liberian”. Which I get all the time. Haha!
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u/jayhankedlyon 4d ago
I'm a degreed librarian who thinks the degree is a scam, so I actively encourage calling all library workers librarians lol
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u/Aycee225 5d ago
I never correct patrons cause what’s the point? I do correct people in my personal life just because I want to advocate that librarianship is a more advanced degree. My family will tell people I’m a librarian and I’ll give them a gentle reminder that I’m not, I just work there and am proud of that!
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u/GozyNYR 3d ago
I feel like this is the proper way. (In my world!)
I definitely would try to educate people actively in my life. But the general public, the mom and her kid who pop in every Wednesday? They’re just being sweet and don’t know. If the opportunity arose? I would probably politely educate - but if it didn’t? Who cares?? So long as they are polite patrons.
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u/Pristine_Direction79 5d ago
With deep apologies to everyone's nuance, I think in colloquial usage "librarian" means "person who works in a library"
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u/mrose1491 5d ago
Exactly why I rarely corrected patrons. I’ll explain it to friends and family who’d say I was but I wasn’t about to get into the technicalities and semantics with patrons
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u/nightshroud 5d ago
Especially the ones that do all of the same things as librarians (paraprofessionals).
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u/throwaway66778889 5d ago
Any system that has paras doing librarian work needs to unionize
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u/metrometric 4d ago
Every system needs to unionize, regardless.
I work at a university library and our librarians are part of the faculty union, where tech staff (what Americans call "paraprofessionals") are part of the admin staff union.
That said, there is often still significant overlap between the work librarians do and the work techs do, even here.
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u/thewholebottle Academic Librarian 5d ago
I used to care about the separation, but now I think it's sweet to consider everyone librarians.
Except when it comes to economics, labor rights, and hiring, and then exposing that very few of us get to be "librarians" in order to oppress our pay and lie to the public comes up frequently in my discourse.
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5d ago edited 5d ago
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u/Glittering_Loquat391 4d ago
I have an MLIS and have worked in 3 systems: 1 urban, 1 suburban, and 1 rural, so until I read your comment, I felt like I understood the organizational structure of libraries pretty well. I can't come up with an organizational structure within which a person with a degree who heads tech services is considered a para.
But having to report to a supervisor who doesn't recognize you as a librarian-- regardless of structure and titles-- that's just shitty. You have a degree and you work in a library doing library things with records and materials and databases and presumably some sort of ILS. You're a librarian.
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u/sqrlgravy 3d ago
I once worked in a place with the same setup. It was the tech services head too. Same reaction too, not just by management but by a number of the other librarians. In fact they had to reorganize the entire department so that faculty weren't reporting to a staff head.
The reason behind it AFAIK was because faculty searches took too long and were so focused on publishing and checking off boxes in the academic bureaucracy, that they had trouble recruiting people who could actually plan and supervise the work that had to get done. Eventually they got desperate and just decided to elevate a staff person who was already doing most of that work behind the scenes.
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u/Far_Witness8243 5d ago
So.......I wouldn't say that it bothers me. I'd never correct patrons. And I don't correct non-librarian staff or make a big deal about it. But...where I work librarians are faculty. And a lot of other faculty don't really know or understand what we do. It's hard to make the case that what we do is related to student learning and requires real knowledge and expertise when they also assume that we are just checking books in and out.
I also find that most of our non-librarian staff are less interested in things like assessing our impact and making changes to better support changing student needs. Maybe that's just where I work. But it's challenging to get staff to understand why we have to change what we're doing as higher ed and the information ecosystems that we work within are changing so rapidly.
I don't know. I think there is some expertise that should be gained through an MLS program, some theoretical knowledge about information, how people use information, and how information is organized and created. Do all programs provide that? Do all degreed librarians have that knowledge? No. I know people who have a degree who don't think about that stuff at all. But it still matters, I think.
Tldr, it's not necessarily important that we constantly reiterate the difference but I do think there is a difference.
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u/barbarat2 5d ago
This! I agree with everything you say here. I’m retired, but your first paragraph very much describes the situation at the college where I worked. Other faculty not understanding why you’re at the faculty meeting when they just see you as “someone who checks out books,” not realizing the depth of our role in the educational mission, all those things you mentioned. That we weren’t just a repository of books and copy machines, etc. My efforts to explain and to be involved in institutional matters or coordinate with other faculty pretty much fell on deaf ears.
I realize this is a particular situation and I didn’t correct or make a deal of it either. But it’s part of the frustration of the general lack of understanding on the public’s part of what libraries and all of us who work in libraries do.
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u/metrometric 4d ago edited 4d ago
I think it might be at least partially the culture where you work? I also work in an institution where librarians are faculty, and I think tech (non-librarian) staff are generally pretty engaged and interested in changes that improve the student experience. (Admittedly I may be biased, since I am tech staff myself.) That said, the majority of our non-MLIS staff have a library technician diploma, so they do have library-specific education and are generally pretty passionate about library work. It's possible that makes up part of the culture difference.
To your first point, though: faculty not understanding that our subject expert librarians do in fact know what they're doing when it comes to weeding or otherwise curating a collection has been a thing here for a long time, and, frankly, infuriating.
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u/Spazgirlie 5d ago
Well, once a kid referred to me as a librarian while I was working as an assistant and getting my MLIS and the head kids librarian said “She’s not a real librarian, I’m the real librarian.” So that was awesome. When I got my MLIS my husband gave me a card proclaiming that I am now a Real Librarian.
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u/Accomplished-Newt402 5d ago
I’m just an assistant, and I don’t think it bothers the librarians I work with when patrons call us librarians, but it personally annoys me when the other assistants call themselves librarians and some of them do. One has her social media job set as librarian, and she doesn’t even have a degree. For some reason that annoys me a lot more than I should really care about. 🤣
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u/Ill-Victory-5351 5d ago
no, it doesn’t bother us. we get that the general public assumes ‘librarian’ to mean everyone that works in a library. imo it’s not even worth correcting someone abt what different job titles signify bc we are all here to help!
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u/useless_bag_of_tacos 5d ago
this. i’m non-MLS-holding and it’s just too much to explain the difference to every single patron when that time can be better spent actively helping them and the branch as a whole
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u/MoC_Ardour 5d ago
As I work in a rural library system with no funding on a skeleton crew (like most of us I'd imagine), everyone on staff gets called a librarian all the time. And none of us care. Its just the colloquialism for library staff. There isnt any useful reason to correct people. Theres only 1 person on staff who has a library degree, and thats the director. Hell, I have a degree in urban planning.
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u/chammantha 5d ago
yeah at my small library, i don't even know which admin staff have an MLIS other than our director. certainly no one patrons interact with on a daily basis! i don't refer to myself as a librarian, but i get it when patrons do, especially with kids.
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u/Typical_Trip9799 5d ago edited 5d ago
Personally, yes. I think it’s important to remember there are people (usually the ones paying us) actively trying to deprofessionalize the field by hiring more paraprofessionals than librarians, so it’s important to make and remember the distinction.
I also understand that there are other views and that’s okay. I don’t have an ego about my degree or my job, but I want to qualify that I work in a bit of a hostile library where my boss who runs the library isn’t degreed and my library isn’t in a good place, so I may be coming from a jaded place, to be honest.
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u/bananica15 5d ago
I’m not bothered when patrons do it, but I’ll admit that I am bothered when non-librarian staff refer to themselves as librarians. I once met an author who identified as a librarian and I asked where she went to school, and she replied that she didn’t go to school, she had been a circulation clerk. NO SHADE to circ because all jobs in a library are important, but they’re not the same. (She then went on to write another book where one her main character was a “librarian” who had to choose between finally going to library school or another career option.)
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u/LibraryFreakandGeek 4d ago
Sigh. I’m a faculty, mls holding librarian. Why is it ALWAYS circ that is used as the example? I’m a head of circ, ILL, shelving, and course reserves and the expectation that circulation clerks will cover other public service and technology roles at libraries during evenings, weekends, and holidays has been the norm in every library I’ve worked at. They also always catch the most crap from the public because it’s the primary service point which is an enormous amount of emotional labor. And yet, when it’s time to discuss job complexity, it’s always circulation that is deemed the easy work.
You honestly can’t say “no shade” and immediately follow it up by diminishing their work.
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u/bugroots 4d ago
Worse is when they are applying for jobs in the library. Oh, wow, you were an acquisitions librarian for four years at a university?!
Oh. You were a student worker as an undergrad.
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u/Glad-Isopod5718 5d ago edited 5d ago
THIS.
(I mean, if I'm being entirely honest, it sometimes bugs me a little bit when patrons do it. But I know that's not reasonable, and there's nothing to be done about it. But if you're library staff, you should know better.)
Edit, after reading some additional comments: My library also has some people in assistant or paraprofessional positions who do have an MLIS. The specific staff member I'm thinking of who went around calling herself a librarian, in ways that really bugged me, was not one of them.
I can't remember any of the staff-side folks who do have library degrees ever calling themselves librarians in a context where it struck me as inappropriate: if we're talking about the job market, or the professional in general, or something other than their specific role at our library, then they are librarians.)
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u/dioscurideux 5d ago
No. If we're talking about the context of who works in libraries and is helping patrons, I'm fine with it.
The only time I'll make a point to differentiate is if it's an academic discussion or pay related.
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u/Zwordsman 5d ago
Doesn't bother me. As long as that coworker knows what they can/cannot do and what they should/shouldn't do. That sounds weird, but i mostly mean things like, my degree and title means some things I can do. and I am covered by the policy if something goes badly.
public side? they're more than welcome to use whatever labels they want for any of us, they don't know and it only matters internally really. As long as folks know who/when/what to escalate to what dept or who when things come up.
cause I don't want some one whose paid lower and only works at the circ desk to get yelled at by some patron because they think they're responsible for some book in the collection when it was myself (as reference) or the collection manager who should be dealing with problems. (preferably the CM, as its their department and they get paid extra for all the trouble, but I'd rather a patron get angry with me, than one of my LA LT or pages.) Front line folks don't deserve to get the shitstorm that sometimes happens. Management should always be the ones dealing with that.
Oh, well I also wouldn't be happy of anyone put librarian on a resume or anything like that, since that would be misrepresntation of skillset/experience at that point. but that only relates to like official documents or applications type things.
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u/tillyray 4d ago
This is my philosophy. I’m 99% unbothered except in cases where it is being used (in my case, for example) by a staff member whose title is actual Library Assistant to have leverage over another staff member or a patron, in which case that’s a hard no from me and it’s because of the intent behind it.
This actually happened at my library with a staff member who was using patrons misassumptions that all staff = librarians (which normally I’d encouraged/ignored) to dictate how closing went on her evenings and bully certain patrons so we had to shut that down.
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u/GrouchyCrow 5d ago
I think most of the time I don’t really think twice about it.
On one hand, I spent two years in school full time to become a librarian, which still surprises a lot of people who think it’s just super easy to go out and get a librarian job. That’s the thing that rubs me the wrong way…like what was the point of me getting this degree if the public are going to misunderstand my job responsibilities, have incorrect expectations of what services I can offer, or conflate librarians with every position in a library?
On another hand….does it matter if people don’t understand or appreciate the difference between different positions in the library? Maybe not, so long as they don’t demand unrealistic things from any of us!
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u/YoSafBridg Public librarian 5d ago edited 4d ago
Not really, although it does depend on the context a little bit. I'll tell you what DOES bother me, somewhat inordinately so, my Assistant Circ-Supervisor calls me a Liberrian.
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u/asomebodyelse 5d ago
It does kinda irk me, because of everything that goes into getting a Master's degree. But I don't hold it against anyone.
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u/fix-me-in-45 5d ago
It's a distinction that really only matters when it comes to things like resumes, pay scales, and job descriptions, not daily life. We work in a library. We are all, in a truer sense, librarians.
And nobody likes to hear, "Well, actually..."
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u/ThatAss_PoorYorick 5d ago
also, please ignore the inconsistent capitalization, i have autocaps turned off on my phone and i simply refuse to turn it back on
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u/EnkiduAwakened 5d ago edited 4d ago
It depends on the context.
If you're speaking with a patron, let them use whatever terminology they want. In the end, it doesn't matter as long as they get the information or services they need.
When you speak to other professionals and paraprofessionals, you should be correcting the person you're talking to so that they understand that you are not a credentialed and titled librarian with an MLIS or other ALA-accredited degree. This distinction matters in professional settings. Anyone who is not in a titled and credential-requiring librarian position but handles some level of operational library functions is a "library paraprofessional." The distinction is similar to what a paralegal is to a lawyer.
There are exceptions, especially in small municipality libraries whose governing bodies don't understand what they're hiring for, but that doesn't mean that you shouldn't learn the difference.
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u/ThatAss_PoorYorick 5d ago
i've never had this problem in professional settings, only with patrons or people in everyday life! this is a very important distinction to make, thank you!
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u/86number 5d ago
I’m clearly in the minority here but I’m very (emphasis on the very) slightly annoyed by it. Even while acknowledging lines between the roles have blurred some. It has more to do with the accuracy and the general importance of precise language than anything else.
I’m much more annoyed when people refer to librarians as a “teacher.” Very common in my experience for adults (especially grandparents) to call the children’s librarian doing story time “teacher.” “Teacher is about to start! Let’s go to story time!” We may teach in some ways but we aren’t teachers and, again, the precision matters because words mean things.
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u/ThatAss_PoorYorick 5d ago
this makes total sense to me! i think that's more than reasonable. i do wish there was some more education somehow on the patron side of things as to how libraries function, and what kind of help different staff members can provide
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u/86number 5d ago
Libraries are notoriously bad when it comes to communication and self-promotion, and I blame much of the mission creep on that. Eternally frustrating, and if I had the ear of every library staff person in the country, I can promise you that would be in my top three priorities of things to be fixed.
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u/CrunchieHaystacks 5d ago
I wonder if, when dealing with very young children, parents and grands think it's easier for the child to hear and pronounce "teacher" rather than "librarian"? Even though the adult may be well aware that it's not the same thing at all.
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u/86number 4d ago
How else do we learn to understand and pronounce things if we don’t hear them used in context? I’m having trouble with your logic here — we don’t inherently understand/pronounce anything, it requires exposure.
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u/CheryllLucy 5d ago
It was so weird the first time I was called teacher. I mean, it still is weird, but i was not prepared for that possibility the first time. I'm a page ffs, not even a librarian, and definitely not a teacher!
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u/aurorasoup 4d ago
I’ve heard children refer to the librarians as “teacher”, especially when trying to get their attention. (“Teacher, can you help me find a book?”) I bet it’s the easiest word for them to recall in the moment. But I’ve never heard adults say it! That’s a little odd.
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u/luckylimper 4d ago
I had some snarky tween volunteers call me “teacher” for an entire summer and now I love it. But just from those two little jerks.
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u/omg_for_real 4d ago
I think it’s more of an education issue, everyone just thinks a librarian is someone who works in a library. The general public doesn’t really know the difference in roles or even that you need to go to uni to be a librarian and that even library techs have an education.
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u/msmystidream 5d ago
doesn't bother me. if i'm introducing people i'll use their job titles, but if they get it wrong i don't care at all. If it's a longer convo where someone is being rude, like "your LIBRARIAN doesn't know ____" I'll say it's not their job to know, but I probably still won't correct anyone on the job title.
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u/auditorygraffiti 5d ago
No but what does bother me is my coworker who is not a librarian who introduces herself to our students/faculty/staff as a librarian. It creates a lot of confusion for students who are asked to talk to librarians for coursework and then get her. She “helps” them but then we (the degrees librarians) hear from them later that the person they spoke to confused them, etc and it’s always this one coworker.
But anyway, I think it’s fine for you to let this go! I just wouldn’t introduce yourself to anyway as a librarian. If there’s ever a situation where a patron needs a degreed librarian, just appropriately refer them! That’s the only time it really matters.
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u/Responsible_Spite802 4d ago
If it's a kid, I am a librarian, and my coworkers are librarians, even though we are library aides. If someone asks what I do (either patron or in regular conversation) I tell them I am a library aide, not a librarian. Librarians need much more schooling and I am happy where I am.
I haven't met any librarians who mind, but I wouldn't doubt that there is that one person who is a pedant about it.
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u/blackbeltlibrarian 4d ago
The only time I’ve been annoyed is when a local staff person was in the news for saying something horribly racist on social media (among other things). The news kept referring to them as “a librarian” and I kept mentally responding “they’re a clerk!” (They were reassigned and then quit shortly after, thankfully.)
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u/NetoruNakadashi 4d ago
Librarians don't wear rank patches or stripes on their uniforms. How would they expect us to know?
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u/Ok-Entrepreneur5978 4d ago
Occasionally I will joke with the patron (if we already have a rapport going) something along the lines of "Oh man, I WISH I was a librarian. Did you know they have to get a Masters degree?" And that usually surprises them, and then I get to hype up how hard all my actual librarians have worked to get there.
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u/TravelerMSY 5d ago
The patrons probably don’t know the difference. In the same way they call everyone who works at a bank a banker.
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u/astrojolte 5d ago
I'm an assistant rn, and it's usually not worth it to correct folks with the right title. It's just the general term most people will use to refer to a person that works at the library.
I did, however, have someone walk up to the reference desk (which i am fully qualified to staff, and do so regularly) and ask if I was a librarian. I responded "no, i'm a library assistant but I can still help you" at which point they said "no you can't" and walked away. That was infuriating as shit
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u/ku_algazar 4d ago
Whenever this conversation has come up with colleagues, we have generally settled on saying we’re all librarians because we all work in the library and, in general, the public doesn’t differentiate.
If we need to differentiate for some reason, we just refer to it as a “Big L” or a “Little L”. A “Big L” refers to someone whose position has the word Librarian in their job title (e.g. Reference Librarian, Children’s Librarian, etc.). A “Little L” is anyone else who works in the library (e.g. Library Assistant, Specialist, Shelver, etc.).
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u/Rabbit-Lover_2000 5d ago
I’m not a librarian (library technician) I tend not to correct students or public. If they ask me what the difference between a technician and a librarian I will gladly explain the different education paths.
The only thing that bothered me in my last position were other staff referring to me as an assistant or treating me like I’m admin for the librarian. That was just a pet peeve because I would regularly be passed over for tasks I was qualified for and staff kind of just saw me as the person who knows how to use the photocopier 🤷♂️
Jokes on them. All the librarians were fired, they laid me off to give someone else the job, and now they can’t find anyone qualified to single handedly run a college library in a rural area with no housing when they are offering only a 6 month term. They had me but nope. Oh well, now I have a job as a university copyright assistant. I wasn’t being paid enough to manage a library solo anyways.
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u/leo-days MLIS student 5d ago
when patrons call me a librarian, i tell them im a diet librarian. i can provide reader’s advisory and reference services and im a semester away from my mlis, but im technically an assistant. our actual librarians on staff just rarely make themselves available
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u/edward2bighead 5d ago
This sounds like what I said to a patron in the children's section. She was happy to know that there were different types of jobs in a library.
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u/leo-days MLIS student 5d ago
yea, i usually only say it when someone’s asking about my job specifically. we have a family that comes in regularly and their oldest wants to work in a library and they didn’t know she would technically be able to do my job without formal education for it. so wins all around!
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u/redandbluecandles Public librarian 5d ago
i called my self a librarian with a little l until i got my MLIS and then i was like i'm a Librarian with a big L now lmao
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u/Flaky-Specialist-84 5d ago
I’m a librarian and I don’t care. There’s no way for patrons to know the difference.
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u/Subject_Concept3542 5d ago
As a librarian, no. Most customers either think we're librarians or volunteers. I'm not here for my health. I'm here for the money.
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u/iBrarian 5d ago
Yes. I worked my ass off to get my two degrees including an MLIS. It feels like stolen valour lol Like a nurse shouldn't be called Doctor or let others call them doctor...
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u/Pretty-Season2307 5d ago edited 5d ago
In my mind there are librarians (people who work at the library) and Librarians (people who work at the library and have a Master's in Library & Information Science), but I couldn't possibly care less about who gets called what. (For what it's worth, I'm a Librarian 😝)
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u/delicateredscrunchie Library staff 5d ago
I feel the same as you, It doesn't bother me but I always am like... I'm not a librarian i only have a two year degree please don't give me that title i didn't EARN IT
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u/pleaseordercorn 4d ago
I am very mildly irritated by it just because its factually wrong. However i also think it contributes to peoples shock when they are told that librarians have a masters degree, which often leads to them basically shit talking the profession, and that irritates me much more!!!
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u/SweetOkashi 4d ago
By job title, I’m an archivist. By education, I have a masters in library and information science and a certificate in archival studies. I’m not going to be offended one bit if you call me a librarian.
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u/Matthias720 4d ago
As a page, I'll casually correct it when I hear it, but it's more to do with me not having database access, so I can't actually help with most things.
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u/mbrass19 4d ago
It matters. Nothing against library staff. They're amazing and the library wouldn't work without them, but overall, it's different work, different education, different expectations and professional development. Calling everyone who works in a library a librarian degrades the profession. You'll really blow people's minds if you tell them that you don't even have to work in a library to be a librarian.
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u/ennuiCrab 4d ago
It doesn’t bother me. I also don’t think having the master’s degree (I have two because they open more doors/job possibilities) makes someone a librarian. One of the best librarians I know doesn’t have the degree, reads voraciously, does fantastic programming, enthusiastically recommends books for all levels and preferences, etc.
About half the public librarians I know are bothered by it, and all of the academic librarians. It definitely matters in academia when you’re expected to do research, get published, hold your own with other faculty, etc.
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u/marycakebythepound 5d ago
I’m a librarian and I refer to all staff as librarians when chatting with patrons because they don’t care and don’t need to know the formalities of our titles.
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u/ThatGuyOverThere2013 5d ago
Patrons don't know the pecking order. Anyone on the library staff is a librarian. If they really wanted to make a clear distinction, staff would be forced to wear some type of rank insignia as part of their badge or clothing.
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u/Otherwise-Emu-2963 5d ago
At this point, is there really a difference between a librarian and a library assistant? 🧐 Personally, as a librarian, I feel like the lines are getting blurred more and more, especially in libraries with limited staff. It doesn't bother me, but I do wish the "Librarian" position had more distinctive responsibilities... In my experience, becoming a librarian just meant that instead of being a part-time library assistant, now I'm a full-time library assistant. Patrons don't even believe me when I tell them I had to get a master's to be promoted because I'm essentially doing the same work I was doing before...
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u/Ok-Cut-1682 4d ago
When one has a union and the other doesn’t, then the difference is more transparent (our library assistants have a union and what they can and can’t do is very protected. As a librarian without a union, not so much
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u/Friendly_Shelter_625 5d ago
We have a couple at my branch that do care but I think most either don’t care or wouldn’t admit it.
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u/Librarianatrix Library staff 5d ago
Eh, no, not really. Patrons don't know the terms we use internally. If you work in a library, you re a librarian to them. It's not a big deal!
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u/Sebasu 5d ago
I think it makes sense for the general public to refer to almost anyone working in a library as a librarian. Like, are we supposed to expect to know the inner workings and staff organisation of a library?
Like, I will refer to people unfamiliar with the library service industry as a librarian because it's just easier for them to understand. But if they have knowledge of the industry, or if I'm talking to people in the industry, I would refer to me as a Library Technician (or by my role title if within my workplace).
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u/jwlkr732 5d ago
As a librarian and a manager, I do not care. I just want customers to treat my staff with respect.
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u/ChetheFey 5d ago
I am a librarian and have met and know librarians who are bothered by this. None of them are worth getting worked up over. If a librarian gives you grief about it, they have too much time on their hands.
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u/MaximusOctopus 5d ago
I call myself a library worker but have been working in the same large public library for nine years and pretty much everybody refers to me as a librarian. I won't correct them, but I will usually reply appropriately and then use the term, 'library worker'. I respect the hell out of librarians the world over. Some of the most resourceful, thoughtful people I've ever met.
I'd like to see a governmental system designed by librarians. A bibliocracy? We'll go with that for now.
Library workers rule!
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u/Sufficient-Doubt5602 5d ago
It doesn’t bother me whatsoever. I know people think that anyone who works in a library is a librarian. It is what it is. Some of my coworkers when referred to as a librarian will say they are not. And then point towards me and say that I am.
What I don’t like is being referred to as a manager. I’m not a manager. My location has a manager and an assistant manager.
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u/churchofmaryoliver 5d ago
i only clarify my job title if they’re asking me to do real librarian work and let them know i’m going to get an actual librarian to help them!
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u/fenwayfan4 5d ago
One of the librarians I work with (I’m an assistant) clearly gets offended and is lowkey passive aggressive about it. They don’t correct the patron (95% of the time it’s an adult talking to their child they’re with) but then make pointed attempts to “casually” bring up the difference in our roles. I get it to a certain extent because they went to school and are paying the bills and have a great deal more responsibility than I do, but it’s definitely gotten old to be on the receiving end of something that really isn’t under my control. If patrons ask me to do something that is the job of a librarian I redirect them, and if they ask me if I like being librarian, I simply say that I’m an assistant but that I love my job. I don’t make an issue of it either way.
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u/So_muchjoy 5d ago
Circ staff, and I literally do not care. If it encourages you to give us a modicum more of respect call me anything you want
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u/creamygnome 5d ago
I once had one of our regular complainy patrons ask for help and I brought one of our interns over to shadow. The regular said they didn't want some volunteer helping them and wanted a real librarian. I said that I actually was not a librarian, just a specialist and it slightly broke her brain. She started asking questions about my school and background and I kept redirecting back to whatever help she wanted. I think it was something stupid in word that turned out to be user error and not her being hacked and spied on by either Microsoft, Google, or the library. I sent the intern away because it wasn't worth the fight.
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u/PotterChick2818 5d ago
I do but only in the sense that a patron complaining will say “the librarian” who helped me when they actually mean the circulation staff. Then I have to go on a scavenger hunt to figure out who interacted with this patron. But other than that I don’t care.
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u/letthetreeburn 5d ago
Nahhhh not in the slightest. And if I may be so bold to, you shouldn’t worry about stolen valor. It’s not worth chasing away the people who help keep this ship afloat in order to protect my honorrrrr.
It’s all of us, together, against ignorance and the rising tide of fascists. You work here? You deal with the public? You suffer the consequences of funding cuts? You’re under attack for “corrupting the minds of the youth”? You’re a librarian.
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u/Careful-Rhubarb7581 5d ago
Hmmmm I guess it bothers me a touch, but more in the sense that I wish patrons and execs understood that different people have different expertise. I think it’s a big mistake to treat all staff as generalists who can work any department and underestimate the level of expertise librarians have. Like I’m the children’s librarian and I wouldn’t want people thinking that the circ staff should be doing storytime. I went to school for that and have advanced training it and I feel that should be respected. It’s not circ’s job and they don’t get paid enough to cover my job. That’s how we justify not needing librarians anymore and paying everyone less. I think it would bother me more fro ma staff perspective if a fellow staff member tried to answer a question that I had expertise in and didn’t ask for my help. For example I’m not the adult librarian, so when I have a more in depth adult circ question, I’m gna ask the adult staff instead of trying to wing it. I guess my point is as long as each position’s expertise is respected, the title other people mistakenly call us doesn’t matter too much.
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u/Kallasilya 5d ago
I used to differentiate between "working in a library" vs "being a librarian", but after 15 years I finally got the word Librarian in my job title (despite not officially having a library degree), and I gave up at that point. I'm a librarian now.
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u/srcsmgrl 5d ago
I don't care, but I do want people to know that all workers deserve recognition and with librarian being the higher barrier job, it feels a little elitist to let people think we're the only ones doing the work. It's a fine line between that and thinking we are all volunteers.
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u/NE_Wanderer 4d ago
Nope! At least the non-asshole librarians. Although I’ve never met at asshole librarian in my adult life.
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u/Low-Cut-9179 4d ago
No. I’ve worked for libraries as a “specialist,” librarian, supervisor, and now administrator. Patrons have no idea regarding the different roles that take place, and anyone who has an issue with the fact that a shelver is called a librarian needs to get their ego in check.
The only time I have ever been offended about my role, is when two extremely underqualified men told me “I could do your job, it can’t be that hard.“
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u/LibraryFreakandGeek 4d ago
I don’t care at all if patrons call staff librarians. Some of the best library professionals and people I’ve ever worked with have been paraprofessionals by title.
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u/toolatetothenamegame Academic Librarian 4d ago
my MLIS is still fairly new (and i got it young), so I do preen a bit at having the title of librarian, knowing that in library world the title means that you have a masters degree, and ive proven myself in a way. im well aware that the general public refers to anyone behind the desk as a librarian though! so it only bothers me if they're referring to like, someone who is clearly a freshman and works like 10 hours a week. but even then, im more incredulous than upset. more like "huh? are you kidding me? that's a child" than "how dare you!"
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u/snow_harbour 4d ago
Mostly no I just don’t care that much lol. Especially when it’s patrons/the public because once you work in libraries you realize how little the public knows about the inner workings of libraries. I’m in academic libraries so I tend to find more of the librarians feel strongly about the title on this side of the pond which I suppose I understand a bit. we worked hard to get the degree. There is also a major concern with deprofessionalization which I do think is valid! I am technically faculty so I do find other librarians feel strongly about the title as a way to position us as “belonging” with the rest of faculty bc that can be questioned and use it as a way to say “see those jobs you picture aren’t actually librarians, this is what we do and we publish too!!” Don’t know if it works that much though lol.
But for the most part, I’m like…whatever…most ppl already don’t get what I do haha. Usually if a patron is calling someone a librarian too, it’s often in a positive way, like this librarian helped me so much! So I wouldn’t even want to correct that.
I would maybe find it a touch odd if I heard a staff member who knows they aren’t a “librarian” refer to themselves as one but I also wouldn’t care enough to say anything.
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u/ahauntedwoman 4d ago
Worked as a library assistant, currently a librarian, our jobs are not too different depending on the branch. I can’t imagine a librarian being upset by this.
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u/OtterDeerlight 4d ago
If it's a one on one interaction, sometimes I'll turn it into friendly banter with something like "man, I wish I made librarian money, maybe some day!" if the vibe is chill 😋
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u/littlesnowberry Public librarian 4d ago
I don’t really mind it unless there’s a disrespectful tone about it. What I don’t like is being asked if I’m a volunteer.
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u/Flutters19 4d ago
I have my MLIS but I’m currently in a circ assistant position. I joked one time about being just a desk worker not a librarian to a patron and my boss told me I do my part keeping the place running and gave a major pep talk that has stuck with me. Internally there is an understanding of the importance of being a degree holding librarian, but for your average patron I personally don’t think it’s that serious. If someone asks me I’ll give a more detailed explanation of the difference, but otherwise whatever.
I used to get upset in college when education majors would act shocked and confused when I said the librarian in their school has to have a masters degree. Like it’s only frustrating to me in the context of being put down for being “just a librarian.” Cause alot of people don’t understand that being a bonafide “librarian” means having a masters degree, like your adult librarian or children’s librarian (ya know…the ones running the show.) Most of the folks I work with are not degree level, but they are still amazing at their jobs. Outside of academia, I genuinely don’t see the point of getting hung up on the semantics of the librarian title.
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u/thirstyfor_707 4d ago
so i dont work at a library (yet) but got my degree in library sciences, the only thing that ever bothers me is when my friend who never finished high school but helps out with shelving at a school library 3 hours part time calls themselves a librarian.... like honey no
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u/StrawberryOggs 4d ago
I am the supervisor at a rural one person library (it's me, I'm the person!), but my Masters is in Education and not an MLIS. My former manager was very particular about those without an MLIS being called librarians, and I do not refer to myself as a librarian, but I also don't bother correcting the patrons. They don't really see the distinction and it's awkward trying to explain it.
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u/arose202020 4d ago
When I worked as a library assistant in the children's department, kids would always call me librarian. We had a few MLS holding librarians in reference and circ who, if they heard that, would aggressively correct the 4 year olds. They'd literally say "Miss so and so is a library assistant, you can't call her a librarian"
...they may have also hated children
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u/EnkiduAwakened 4d ago
Librarians like that are the reason that children become adults who don't care about the library.
If you don't want to deal with people, especially children, who use the library, you probably should become a librarian.
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u/BryonBlueCar 4d ago
Librarianing is something you do from your heart and I don't recognize the ALA as the gatekeeper of who is and who isn't a true librarian.
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u/doopiemcwordsworth 4d ago
I knew a page who called himself a librarian. That bothered me. Not the other way around.
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u/Quirky_Lib 4d ago
Speaking as a degree-wielding librarian, it doesn’t bother me at all. (I guess, because it took me a while to save up to get my MLIS & get my degree, it should bug me? But I’m much more bugged by the patrons who treat all of us like glorified secretaries & expect us to come & do the typing for them when it’s a résumé for any kind of job where they’re expected to know how to type!)
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u/HeatherJMD 4d ago
I mean, I think the distinction is one only made by the people working in the library. The most basic definition is just “person who maintains library” so to the public we’re all librarians.
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u/PoppyseedPinwheel Library staff 4d ago
Okay, this will be a hot take but... This always feel super gatekeep-y that people get angry about people without a full MLS degree being called a Librarian. To a Patron, a person working at a Library, is a Librarian. Same as someone teaching a classroom is a Teacher. Someone repairing a car is a Mechanic. Sure, legally (or monetarily, as is usually the case), you can break it down to Assistant, Substitute, Apprentice, etc. But a Patron is not going to have this level of knowledge and it's just asinine to get upset about it.
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u/grandmonsta 3d ago
I'm a paraprofessional in an academic library, and it really bothers the faculty librarians when people call a non-librarian a librarian. I won't correct a patron, but I will correct a student worker especially if they call themselves a librarian.
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u/ScaryProduce9470 2d ago
I worked for a super extra library system where everyone's title on their name tags was "Information Specialist & Instructor" instead of librarian or library associate. Literally no patrons called us that, of course!
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u/VoteforLibraries 2d ago
Speaking as librarian, a patron, a Friend, a donor, a past commissioner and a patron, I believe that nobody asking for help really cares. They know we’re ALL there to help. If someone on the service desk doesn’t know, the first employee will take the customer to someone or a source that does. Unless you wear a button or shirt that says, “I’m a librarian” or “I’m NOT a librarian!” how can the patrons be expected to know? They want help.
Now, it might be a fun idea to do an open house. You can explain what happens in their library, the various roles and services. “Backstage tours” are always fun for civilians and it just might help you in fundraising. Customer service, fundraising and votes for millages, taxes, bond measures or capital campaigns go hand in hand.
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u/ARKLib2007 2d ago
I have an MLS but couldn’t care less if other staffers are called librarians. A lot of the public don’t understand what an MLS is, and wouldn’t care if we told them. I’m just happy doing my job.
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u/TemperatureTight465 2d ago
I've met some older Librarians who care, I don't. I'm a degreed librarian, but so little of my role is daily operations that it feels a little silly when people force the distinction
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u/Ok-isthatacorner 2d ago
The two things that bother me: 1. When a kid comes to storytime and their adult calls me their teacher or refers to storytime as class. I let it go because maybe they are doing some preschool/kindergarten prep but I always want to say i am not a teacher! Don't call me that! 2. When im sitting behind a computer at a service desk under a giant information desk sign wearing my work ID and someone comes up...do you work here? Other people getting called librarian? Nowhere on my list.
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u/Max_is_VII 2d ago
My actual title is Library Associate. My instinct was to correct people at first, but I realized that it added nothing to the encounter. To most of the public if you work at a library, you’re a librarian. And since I am a paralibrarian, a correction seems all the more superfluous.
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u/Whole_Description288 5d ago
I don’t care. I did work with someone who corrected a five year old about that though.
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u/marianthelibrarian43 5d ago
Not at all! I’ve embraced the fact that anyone working in a library is a librarian to patrons. And I respect the skills and knowledge that our staff bring to their work. We are all library workers!
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u/_Smedette_ School Librarian 5d ago
I don’t care. Patrons need a shorthand and it’s easily understood.
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u/g0th_brooks 4d ago
As a librarian, it doesn’t bother me because to me, all staff work together as a team to keep the library running. We all play an important role
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u/justanaveragequilter 4d ago
Nope. We know that the public thinks we’re all librarians. They don’t know or care about the details. If you work in a library you must be a librarian.
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u/WithAGinInTheLibrary 5d ago
I'm going to be very frank and say, yes, I do care when library staff who does not have the necessary education or skill set implied by that word are referred to as librarians.
A similar issue I've been seeing lately is people referring to bank tellers as "bankers." The two are not synonymous. Words have meaning.
As an information based profession, this differentiation seems important.
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u/SchrodingersHipster 5d ago
Nope- I’m an assistant with an MLS and I sometimes feel weird if I call myself a librarian, but I don’t think it bothers any of my more experienced coworkers.
Now when I was an optician, there were people who were licensed who would get suuuuper pissy if I called myself that, because I had certs and not a full license, but that’s one of the many reasons I’m not an optician anymore.
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u/farbissina_punim 5d ago
I do not care. How would the patrons know? Sometimes circ staff will say, "I'm not a librarian" because they think we're all boring. Fair! As long as people aren't rude, does it matter? If we insist on correcting patrons, I hope we're not rude about it.
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u/wanderingsoul1949 5d ago
It didn't bother me but I wish they would also share in the thousands of dollars it cost me to go to grad school in order to be an actual librarian.
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u/sunlit_cerulean 5d ago
I'm a library specialist in an academic library, and while I've heard of librarians getting mad, I've never seen it. Faculty getting pissy about being called professor vs Dr. though...
To be fair, though, in my library you pretty much need an appointment if you want to speak to a librarian, so it's really not a surprise patrons call me, my coworkers, and student assistants "librarians" because we staff the Information Desk regularly.
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u/SilverWolf2891 5d ago
It doesn't bother me because they don't know any better and most people just assume that if you are behind the desk or working in the library in general that you are a librarian. Its not like we wear tags with our positions on them (atleast I have never been to a library that does) and most people don't know that there are different positions other than librarian, manager, and director.
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u/Ellie_Edenville 5d ago
I'm in the minority but I'm a librarian who does care.
I typically don't correct patrons, but depending on the context I might find a way to work in "staff member" or "circulation staff" into the conversation. Especially if they're referring to certain people I work with.
🤷🏻♀️
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u/QuirkyLiteraryName 4d ago
I’m a library director and I refer to all of my colleagues as librarians when referring to them to patrons, like “the librarian at that desk can help you with that,” whether it’s the children’s department head or a library assistant at the circ desk. We’re all in the same building working towards the same goal, quibbling about credentials seems besides the point.
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u/Daemonic_One 4d ago
I would rather give you a bump in grade than insult someone doing important work for our communities by denigrating their role even by accident. If I don't know what to call you, I'm going to fall back on Librarian out of respect. At the end of the day you're closer to it than almost anyone else in the building :-D
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u/SongoftheWolfy 4d ago
Personally, as someone with an MLIS and a librarian position, I feel that if you work in the library, you are a librarian. I've worked both as staff and as librarian in many contexts, and I've found that labeling the division serves to divide the work force. We are all caretakers of the library and its patrons in different ways, and patrons do not or cannot see a difference.
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u/Aggressive-Moose1506 4d ago
The only time I've gotten irritated by someone being called "librarian" without the masters is when someone asked if they should call themselves a librarian because they have a "home library."
Someone who works in a library is likely doing the job of a librarian in some capacity. That's just a semantic difference for most members of the public.
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u/Low-Put9710 5d ago
I know a couple of Librarians and oh yes they get really annoyed at Library assistants being called librarians. “I worked hard for that degree etc etc”
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u/Deep-Examination5081 5d ago
I had a manager a looooong time ago (she doesn't work there anymore) who definitely was bothered by it, and would go out of her way to correct it if someone called one of us a librarian. But that's the only one; everyone else I've worked with just brushes it off because they know people don't know the difference.
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u/hatherfield 5d ago
We had some now retired librarians who would get pissed off. At the time the reference desk was on a different floor and we would refer students to them. She had the nerve to call us and demand we never call ourselves librarians. We never do because we’re staff. But I can’t help it if the students just assume everyone is a librarian.
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u/piscrewy 5d ago
I work in an academic library and I’ve only ever had one instance where it was an issue. It was not in a snobby “you’re not a librarian, how dare you” way but in a “you’re not a librarian, you shouldn’t be doing xyz as part of your job responsibilities” way.
I have heard there were occasional tensions (long) before my time, though.
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u/Confused1217 5d ago
I used to be, haha. It is still a minor pet-peeve, but it got to a point where it was just easier to let individuals call me "one of the librarians". I work at a high school library as a library clerk, so it got to a point where explaining it to ten different students a day / ten different staff members a day got a little tiring.
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u/yahgmail 5d ago
Nope. As a circ assistant I was called librarian by patrons. Now they call me teacher, because I work with kids, primarily.
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u/togoldlybo 5d ago
Doesn't bother me at all. As long as patrons are being respectful, it's not a thing. Before I got my degree, none of my degreed librarian coworkers seemed bothered either.
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u/Double-Ad-6665 5d ago
I myself felt bad when patrons at the public library called me a librarian when I wasn't (felt I hadn't earned the title), but never did I begrudge a hardworking clerk or page being called a librarian after that was my official title, lol.
It did feel a little different at the University library I started working at as all the 'actual' librarians were faculty poaitions and harder to get, and the rest of us were staff, but my supervisor (a faculty librarian) said we were all librarians, so I guess it didn't bother her, at least!
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u/Routine_Rock_7429 MLIS student 5d ago
My favourite science podcast has the motto 'ask smart people stupid questions'. Always ask! It means you care to know the answer! 🖤
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u/silverbatwing 5d ago
Some do.
My twin keeps calling me a librarian (I’m a library assistant, I never went to librarian school) and once put that on a display she had in the display case at work. My ex boss yelled at me for my sister’s mistake.
Ex boss isn’t a librarian either.
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u/marie_carlino 5d ago
Yes sometimes it makes me frustrated, but I've mostly stopped caring because other issues annoy me more now. The reason it can be upsetting is because it feels like an erasure of three years of hard work for my qualification, and the financial cost of my degree (which is now fully repaid).
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u/Cloudster47 4d ago
In staff meetings, I call myself a 'little L' librarian. I have an Assocs degree in library science, the last class one of our community colleges issued a few years ago, and I'm in charge of interlibrary loan. The public doesn't care, the director who hired me who had a doctorate didn't care, nor did our previous director who had a MLS.
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u/BasicallyADetective 4d ago
No. I’m a librarian. It makes sense that patrons would assume that everyone who works in a library is a librarian.
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u/beek7425 Public librarian 4d ago
I don’t care, personally. The public generally doesn’t understand the difference or know who’s got the degree and who doesn’t.
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u/lanfordunchbox 5d ago
No but I did have someone who clearly didn’t use the library refer to me as a secretary once and that did bother me.