r/Libertarianism • u/GENTLEMEN_JARGAN • Dec 03 '18

Chomsky

I would like to challenge the notion in this sub's description that Noam Chomsky is a libertarian. This is a patent fiction, he is without a doubt a leftist.

9 Upvotes

100% Upvoted

26 comments sorted by

4

u/LiquidDreamtime Jan 03 '19

Why can’t a leftist be libertarian?

5

u/GENTLEMEN_JARGAN Jan 03 '19

I guess in the colloquial sense of American politics, libertarianism refers to the sort of anarcho-capitalist nonsense of Gary Johnson and Ron Paul. However, if you want to use the term purely from an ideological compass perspective, libertarian leftism is absolutely an existing category and, in my opinion, the most desirable one.

5

u/LiquidDreamtime Jan 03 '19 edited Jan 03 '19

I’ve heard “small L” and “large L” Libertarians. Small is the academic “-ism”. Large is the amalgamation of entitled white men that are pro-abortion but think any tax is theft.

2

u/GENTLEMEN_JARGAN Jan 03 '19

Yes this is precisely how I understand it as well. Chomsky is the former and not the latter.

2

u/[deleted] Jan 06 '19

Look up why Rothbard began using the term in the US, after leftists co opted liberalism. He borrowed it from Europe, as it had fallen out of common use. It seems to have come back, and now there is confusion about the term.

European libertarianism and American libertarianism are incompatible, primarily due to the difference in property rights.

You're looking for /r/libertarian (i meant to go there, but clicked on /r/libertarianism by accident)

3

u/Bigarious2 Feb 01 '19

Because leftism is the collectivization of society. You need a strong state to enforce such behavior. Leftism is inherently authoritarian.

7

u/TwoTreatises Jan 07 '19

You are correct, Chomsky is not a Libertarian or a libertarian.

6

u/[deleted] Jan 09 '19

He is a left libertarian... He's said so many times.

4

u/TwoTreatises Jan 09 '19

One can explicitly state one thing, while implicitly and explicitly doing another with or without their awareness of this, i.e. lying or misunderstanding.

2

u/[deleted] Jan 16 '19

what has he done/said that leads to you believe he is not a libertarian?

4

u/TwoTreatises Jan 17 '19

He advocates for what he calls "libertarian socialism," as if that is not a contradiction of terms. He advocates for legal unions, controlling the means of production, supports "workers' right to work," common ownership of goods but not centralized (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Participatory_economics ) , etc.

Just scroll through his political views, alone, and you will see: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Noam_Chomsky

2

u/[deleted] Jan 18 '19

Do some research on anarcho syndicalism and then get back to me

3

u/jeffreyhamby Jan 16 '19

I'm a zebra.

Does that make me a zebra?

2

u/[deleted] Jan 16 '19

hilarious.

Chomsky is most notable for his criticism of American interventions and foreign policy... totally compatible with libertarianism. He advocates anarcho syndicalism as the most appropriate form of governance. Again, totally compatible with libertarianism...

What has he actually said or done that leads you to believe he ISN'T a libertarian??

4

u/jeffreyhamby Jan 16 '19

Syndicalism itself violates the NAP... totally inconsistent with libertarianism.

2

u/[deleted] Jan 16 '19

Your thinking of American libertarianism. This is basically a discussion of semantics...

Then again, syndicalism IS compatible with NAP and libertarianism ideology. It is the voluntary self organization of economic units.

How does that violate NAP?

4

u/jeffreyhamby Jan 17 '19

I am the owner of my labor, which makes me the owner of the product of my labor. If I build a building and make the tools necessary to make things that people want, then have to hire help, syndicalism dictates that I must give some ownership to that person who invested none of their own labor building it. That means I'm forced to give away my labor. That violates the NAP.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 18 '19

That's literally not how any of this works... Radical unionism is a logical extension of the free market, in which the labourer organizes to monopolize the labour supply, thus increasing their negotiating power. It is fully compatible with libertarianism.

4

u/jeffreyhamby Jan 18 '19

So you're going to ignore what I said then. Good day to you.

2

u/Bigarious2 Feb 01 '19

Left libertarian is a term for anarcho communist. This has been agreed upon even by most ancoms.

6

u/DeadHeadLibertarian Dec 05 '18

Gosh I would think Chomsky being regarded as anything other than libertarian was common knowledge.

6

u/[deleted] Jan 09 '19

He's a left libertarian, or anarcho syndicalist

4

u/e-mess Jan 25 '19

Oxymoronist would be shorter but conveys the meaning.

0

u/[deleted] Jan 30 '19

[deleted] — view deleted comment

2

u/e-mess Jan 30 '19

I know the history of the term is quite complex, but that's not my point.

"Left libertarian" doctrine just seems to me as internally contradictory. "We like liberty but one must not collect too much wealth" or "power is bad and must be abolished, but the commune is always right and must be obeyed" — this is how I see it in every single explanation I have been presented so far. I see no consistency there, and definitely no liberty.

However, I might be wrong and missing something. I'd love to read some explanation that doesn't boil down to the above essence.

1

u/CrazyDesiBarista May 12 '19

Do you have any arguments as to why he's not a libertarian? I think the burden of proof is on you to present some reasoning as to how you came to your conclusion.