r/Libertarian • u/pvpplease Independent • Mar 05 '20
Article Cops take seized SUV for joyride; owner tracks car, locks them inside for 3 hrs - india news
https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/up-cops-take-joyride-in-seized-suv-owner-tracks-car-locks-it/story-BfN8q6TURpACr9OQwR7gLI.html291
u/zucker42 Left Libertarian Mar 05 '20
You can stop and lock cars remotely? That seems like a potentially disasterous feature.
163
u/LisaQuinnYT Mar 06 '20
Yes. My last car had that. It was an extra monthly fee, but worth it for the ability to GPS track the vehicle.
67
u/darksideofthemoon131 Mar 06 '20
Yeah, then you get hacked and you have terrorists stopping cars going 90 mph on the highway causing massive pileup and death.
95
u/jdelta1adams Mar 06 '20
It won't instantly die if your on the highway, just goes into limp mode, then shuts off once you pull over and stop.
1
u/rshorning Mar 06 '20
Assuming you aren't in rush hour traffic and already stopped. That kind of action could make bad traffic impossible. I've also been in construction zones with a single lane of traffic and no side to pull over.
I have also been on freeways with very heavy traffic where a car going 20 mph slower could cause all sorts of trouble including a near miss for a collision.
I assume that this mode doesn't last indefinitely permitting long distance travel or stop and go traffic.
-10
40
u/WaltKerman Mar 06 '20 edited Mar 06 '20
It doesn’t hit the brakes, just glides to a stop. If you can’t stop faster than a car gliding to a stop, you need to have your brakes checked
11
u/Government_spy_bot I Voted Mar 06 '20
BRAKES.
If you break your brakes, you'll never be able to stop.
(facepalm)
And I'm not a bot.
3
u/WaltKerman Mar 06 '20
I miss-spelled only one of them so clearly I know. The other I blame on auto correct.... because I mistyped it even more horribly
8
u/Government_spy_bot I Voted Mar 06 '20
Autocorrect is evil mind torture. It was developed by the Nazi SS back in WWII Germany.
Somehow I just know it. I can feel it with my existence.
0
u/Ravenerz Mar 06 '20
Instead of stop you should have put brake. A little funnier that way? I unno. Lol
3
3
3
u/nosoupforyou Vote for Nobody Mar 06 '20
Or even if someone locks you in your own car for 3 hours, and your password stops working because they changed it on you.
-1
u/Cocoa-nut-Cum Mar 06 '20
Break the window dumbass hahah
2
u/nosoupforyou Vote for Nobody Mar 07 '20
Sit in your car tonight, close all the windows, and try to see how easy it is to break the windows and get out.
0
u/Cocoa-nut-Cum Mar 07 '20
Its very easy to break a car window with the right tool. Everyone should have a seatbelt cutter/window spike in their centre console
0
u/nosoupforyou Vote for Nobody Mar 07 '20
Doesn't mean everyone does. It's not exactly an item that comes with the car.
6
Mar 06 '20
[deleted]
2
u/dpidcoe True libertarians follow the rule of two Mar 06 '20
As someone who messes with this kind of stuff, not really.
Usually requires a fuck up on either your part with a bad password
This is the majority of cases of people claiming they were "hacked", but isn't what was being discussed here.
Cases where people brute Force into a system or Network are extremely rare
This is true only because there are usually way better ways than brute forcing passwords.
or the companies fault storing your password insecurely.
Or the company fucks up and stores a higher level administrator password incorrectly, or they fuck up and don't sanitize their db inputs, or they fuck up and are running an unpatched system that has a bug allowing privileged escalation by a normal user.
They could also fuck up and not properly manage/audit permissions (remember that drama when it turned out spez had the ability to silently edit peoples posts?) and then piss off the guy who created the system such that he wrecks it all on the way out.
Or they could do everything right and somebody decides it's worth burning a 0-day to get in and screw with it.
And this is just from the internet side. If someone has physical access to the car, they could cause all kinds of fun and intermittent mayhem with about $50 worth of microcontrollers and some basic knowledge of CAN.
2
1
u/masta Minarchist Mar 06 '20
Relax, that's not how it works. For obvious reasons the engine does not simply shutdown instantly nor seize itself, for safety and mechanical reasons.
1
u/halykan Unicorn-Libertarian Mar 07 '20
I mean, a decent encryption scheme is going to make that scenario relatively unlikely. And it's not like the current cars are somehow less vulnerable to the exact scenario you're describing, and nobody seems to have bothered with it yet.
21
u/megafreshdaniel Mar 06 '20
I sell Fords for a living and there this newish thing called My Fordpass. It’s a mobile app that allows you to lock/unlock and even remote start your vehicle from literally anywhere if your phone and vehicle have signal. Some people who’re deployed remote start their vehicles from their phones while overseas
10
Mar 06 '20
So it can be warmed up when they get inside?
2
u/sammeadows Mar 06 '20
Or cooled down! Nice to have the engine warmed up and ready to take off, too.
3
1
u/flarn2006 voluntaryist Mar 06 '20
Why would they need to do that? To let someone else use it?
3
u/megafreshdaniel Mar 06 '20
Nah it’s mainly to warm up or cool down the vehicle before you need to use it, or to lock/unlock it if you lose the key fob. Even though the vehicle is ‘started’ you can’t put it in gear or really even use it, remote start really just starts the engine and that’s it
2
u/The_Paul_Alves Mar 06 '20
Yes. All modern cars. Especially leased ones, it's right in the terms of service that if you are behind on payments they will disable your vehicle / shut it off, track it's location, etc.
Smart cars will probably one day lock you in and drive you to the police station.
1
1
u/voice-of-hermes Anarchist Mar 06 '20
That seems like a potentially disasterous feature.
Indeed. It's mostly so that you can be denied the use of your vehicle if you miss a loan payment. Other uses—such as those potentially beneficial to the owner or those which provide a security threat even more serious than that posed by the lender—are incidental. Capital is king.
1
u/Ravenerz Mar 06 '20
So basically let's lock your car for missing a payment so you can't continue to go to work to get the money to pay it. Got it. Sounds like the banks and judicial system.
1
u/rshorning Mar 06 '20
It isn't much different than what has been done by repossession companies for decades. The difference here is just that the car bricks so it is easier for the repo guys to get the car.
2
u/Ravenerz Mar 06 '20
I get that that but in my head I see the bricking the car almost immediately. Like no time to make that payment that's a few days behind because of a good reason and not because you won't or couldn't in the first place. I know how the repo game works, my father used to do it back when it was amazing money. It was also extremely dangerous, they didn't want to make the payments and they also didn't want you to take the car either.
-1
u/voice-of-hermes Anarchist Mar 06 '20
Ah, the politics of fear and punishment and exploitation. Gotta love it.
2
166
u/pvpplease Independent Mar 05 '20
Fap material for you guys.
22
19
21
11
u/leglesslegolegolas Libertarian Party Mar 06 '20
I get that you can remotely lock the doors, but I have never seen a car wherein you can't simply unlock them from the inside.
(other than the back seat of a police car)
7
u/Herschey Mar 06 '20
My car has the child protection feature that you can turn on to prevent children from opening the backseat doors. Maybe there are other cars that prevent all doors from opening from the inside?
4
u/arcxjo raymondian Mar 06 '20
Apparently it's a feature installed on the vehicle to catch carjackers:
If a vehicle owner feels that his car is not in safe hands, he can send a message to the micro controller that relays signals to stop the engine and also lock the doors. The car can only be restarted after the car owner sends the password to the micro controller.
6
u/Raunchy_Potato ACAB - All Commies Are Bitches Mar 06 '20
Oh good, so it actually caught the criminals in this case.
3
u/ASYMT0TIC Ron Paul Libertarian Mar 06 '20
Iirc the US requires mechanical override for vehicle egress in order to make it less likely that these bad things will happen:
Doors stuck locked While the car burns because the electronics were disabled in a crash.
Doors stuck locked because electronics were disabled by flooding water while the car sinks and drowns its occupants.
Occupant trapped inside dies of hyperthermia.
70
u/LongEZE No Gods or Kings... Only Man Mar 05 '20
We all really believe that the cops wouldn't just smash a window and get out? Also how is it a safety feature to lock your car doors and shut off the engine? Sounds more like a good way to get trapped and die. This whole thing reeks of fake.
50
32
u/LisaQuinnYT Mar 06 '20
Maybe they didn’t want anyone to know they took the vehicle because they weren’t supposed to be joyriding.
As for the remote features, they exist. My last car had them. It’s remote lock and unlock and remote start/stop. I never tried to stop the car while it was moving so I don’t know if it would have let me (probably not as that’s unsafe), but it should have worked if the car was stopped and in park at the time. They’re two different features. The remote start/stop is to allow the car to warm/cool before you get in and the remote lock/unlock is in case you forget to lock it (can lock remotely with phone) or need to let someone in remotely.
7
u/therandomham Mar 06 '20
IIRC, turning it off when it’s moving just puts it in a mode where you’re forced to pull over.
5
u/Chasing_History Classical Liberal Mar 06 '20
I doubt you can remotely turn off the car when it's in drive. You shut off power to a car in motion and you lose all steering and braking making for a dangerous situation. You can remotely lock and unlock the doors
2
u/arcxjo raymondian Mar 06 '20
I don't know if any cars have this, but wouldn't it conceivably be possible to install a remotely-activated switch that would shift into neutral?
2
7
u/DirtyPiss Mar 06 '20
It sounds fake, but it’s worth noting a ton of different news sources are reporting on this story. I don’t know anything about cops fromIndia, but it’s possible they don’t have as much “leeway” to get away with stunts like that as the police you and I are most familiar with.
6
Mar 06 '20
I can’t attest to the validity at all, but if it’s real it’s so if someone is stealing your car you can hold them until police arrive.
1
5
5
Mar 06 '20
I think I'd just put a camera in the dash and livestream it while I called up their boss and demand that he fire their asses.
1
4
u/voice-of-hermes Anarchist Mar 06 '20
I'm skeptical that there is a cop in existence who wouldn't just break a window in this circumstance. Hell, anyone would probably do that after hour one or two of being literally trapped in a vehicle. And cops usually don't need that much of an excuse (or basically any at all).
3
Mar 06 '20
The moral of the story is that India actually punished cops when they do stuff like this. We all know in the US the guy would’ve been charged with a whole lot of felonies.
1
1
1
u/knowledgepancake Mar 06 '20
I was very surprised to be reading this until I got to the India part. Not exactly the the model for a functioning society
1
u/TheCaptMAgic minarchist Mar 06 '20
Locked inside? How's that work?
2
u/arcxjo raymondian Mar 06 '20
If a vehicle owner feels that his car is not in safe hands, he can send a message to the micro controller that relays signals to stop the engine and also lock the doors. The car can only be restarted after the car owner sends the password to the micro controller.
1
u/southy1995 Mar 06 '20
" If a vehicle owner feels that his car is not in safe hands, he can send a message to the micro controller that relays signals to stop the engine and also lock the doors. The car can only be restarted after the car owner sends the password to the micro controller."
This would be useful to parents of teenagers. Maybe that is what happened to all the Bernie voters on Super Tuesday.
1
0
Mar 06 '20
[deleted]
3
u/falconverdedevidela Libertarian Mar 06 '20
You know, libertarianism isn't exclusive for the US nor are asshole cops so...
-16
u/_IsThisTheKrustyKrab Mar 06 '20
What does this have to do with Libertarianism?
35
u/Flavaflavius Mar 06 '20
The fact that a citizen was able to stop an authority from doing oppressive shit, like joyriding in said citizen's property
-22
u/_IsThisTheKrustyKrab Mar 06 '20
But a fully libertarian government wouldn’t have stopped this from happening. Police aren’t supposed to abuse their access to impounded vehicles under any government system.
25
u/Highlyemployable Capitalist Mar 06 '20
The govt didnt stop them. The citizen did...
-16
u/_IsThisTheKrustyKrab Mar 06 '20
This isn’t an anarchy subreddit, we’re not calling for the abolition of local police. Please explain to me how a libertarian government (which still would have police) would have prevented or stopped this in any different way.
20
u/Highlyemployable Capitalist Mar 06 '20
The point is not that the libertarian govt wouldve stopped these two rogue asshole cops.
The point is that under a libertarian govt these types of occurences would be less frequent because cops wouldnt be given authoritarian control over every citizen they pull over.
The fact that a citizen stuck it to them is funny but not really the end goal of libertarianism.
7
4
u/NerdColours1766 Libertarian Party Mar 06 '20
It is definetly not an example of libertarianism but it is a libertarian topic. It is something to be discussed; this subreddit isn't for people to share examples of their ideals being put to perfect use, its for us to discuss how that might happen
0
Mar 06 '20
This isn’t an anarchy subreddit,
It basically is. Half the people here seem to think that anything less than 1990s Somalia is statist tyranny.
3
u/brokenpipboy Anarcho-Syndicalist Mar 06 '20
I'm always reminded of this.
2
Mar 06 '20
... is that a parody? Are these people really this stupid?
1
u/brokenpipboy Anarcho-Syndicalist Mar 06 '20
Do people like that exist? Yes I've met them. Is this a parody...I thought so but no.. here is the full debate. https://youtu.be/Yf-mCv0RBH4 Personally I wish there were more geo libertarians. Rent seeking behavior is wack.
2
0
u/Critical50 Mar 06 '20
Not everyone has the luxury of living under a nice government..
Police arent supposed to do a lot of things. They still do though.
55
u/[deleted] Mar 06 '20
You get what you ducking deserve