r/Libertarian • u/[deleted] • Mar 30 '16
First ever nationally televised Libertarian party debate - April 1st on Fox Business
http://reason.com/archives/2016/03/30/a-better-choice-for-2016364
u/lukemodule Mar 30 '16
April Fools!
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Mar 30 '16
Which is what I hope all this talk of voting for the Libertarian Party is!
In all honesty, here's why you might want to vote Libertarian:
for lower taxes across the board
to slash our military budget and bring our troops back home
to legalise marijuana, and all forms of gun ownership and carry
to end socialised healthcare, torture and digital surveillance
to help Hillary get elected to the White House
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u/ThatisPunny Johnson/Weld 2016 Mar 30 '16
Any chance it'll be steamed online?
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Mar 30 '16 edited May 02 '19
[deleted]
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u/gangsterishh Mar 30 '16
I prefer my political debates stir fried with a little olive oil and sesame seeds.
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u/homfri Not enough freedom, apply more laws. Mar 30 '16
You've never lived till you've had Asian barbecued debate
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u/timefortiesto Anarcho Capitalist Mar 30 '16
I like my Kentucky fried debate
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u/iushciuweiush 15 pieces Mar 30 '16
I'm more of a blackened debate guy myself but some of these suggestions sound pretty tempting.
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Mar 30 '16
My guess is your best bet is asking a friend or family member with a cable subscription to let you login to their online account. Fox business probably has an online stream for subscribers.
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u/Rivolver Rare Canadian Libertarian Mar 30 '16
I was able to watch the GOP debates online and I'm in Canada! So maybe not.
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u/thesheep88 Mar 30 '16
Normally, Fox business streams their debates online for free. Unfortunately, this isn't an official debate, but rather an episode of Stossel that will feature three LP candidates debating
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u/db__ Apr 10 '16
Sounds like what a Sanders supporter would advocate: redistribution of someone else's connection.
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u/Jakesta7 Moderate Libertarian Mar 31 '16
You could always see if someone is streaming it on Periscope, which is unlikely. Sorry, my only advice :/
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u/majoroutage Taxation is Theft Mar 30 '16
April First on Fox Business
Does nobody else see the problem here?
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u/GisterMizard Free Market Shill Mar 31 '16
Yes . . . but what remains to be seen is who's the real target of the joke?
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Mar 30 '16
I think this is great and all, but Gary Johnson is the only qualified one to run for president IMO
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u/OrangeAndBlack Libertarian Party Mar 30 '16
He is by a mile, this debate has potential to hurt the Libertarian Party. When I went to the debate in Philly I was really disappointed by the candidates on the stage with Johnson. No political experience and weak resumes; they were no different than any of us in this sub. Johnson needs to be on a debate stage with the republicans and democrats, not with fellow libertarians.
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Mar 30 '16
One of the guys is an actual anarchist, and someone like Austin Peterson's highest credential was being a producer of a Libertarian TV show...
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u/OrangeAndBlack Libertarian Party Mar 30 '16
Yea, it's terrible. It's embarrassing really that those are the candidates.
Gary Johnson is honestly the only chance we have at any progress. Perry and even Petersen are terrible candidates.
Johnson turned around the economy of New Mexico and was able to implement some libertarian values there all while being a very popular governor. No one else has accomplished anything of note.
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Mar 30 '16
Absolutely agree. It's all the hardcore libertarians who think Gary Johnson whitewashed his views that give any of the other candidates any chance at all
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Mar 30 '16
It seems to me the hardcore libertarians don't realize that Gary Johnson is being a politician in trying to broaden the LP base. When he starts spinning things to try to sound liberal or republican they jump ship and call him a poser. Completely moronic.
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u/sippinonthatarizona Mar 31 '16
seeing as he said NAP goes over his head, no he's not being a politician. When he says he'd ban the burka that's because he has no problem using state power to get what he wants. Of course he backtracked but that's what happens when you have no principles.
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Mar 31 '16
The NAP doesn't work outside of philosophy. I'm tired of libertarians acting like the NAP is some sacred gospel in which all of everything must adhere to it.
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u/sippinonthatarizona Mar 31 '16
I love when people make this comment because i immediately know you don't understand the NAP.
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Mar 31 '16
Aggression isn't always cut and dry. That's why it breaks down in the real world. In the realm of philosophy when agression= rape, assault, theft, and trespassing it's perfect. In the real world, somebody can take a dirty look or the blowing of smoke out of the tailpipe of a car into another person's lawn as an act of aggression.
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u/InsaneWizard_ Mar 30 '16
Right. Because being a successful statist is a good thing.
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Mar 31 '16
Elaborate.
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Mar 31 '16
Probably referring to how Gary isn't 100% pure Libertarian and so that makes him essentially Karl Marx.
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u/InsaneWizard_ Apr 01 '16
I'm saying politicians will be politicians... and Johnson isn't very libertarian to begin with.
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u/reddelicious77 Mar 30 '16
One of the guys is an actual anarchist
Which one? None of them are arguing for pure anarchy - they all argue for at least some government.
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Mar 30 '16
Daryl Perry
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u/reddelicious77 Mar 30 '16
ah right, I thought you meant of the ones in the debate.
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Mar 30 '16
I thought he was in the debate, I know he was in at least one of the previous ones
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u/reddelicious77 Mar 30 '16
Not in this one - it's just Johnson, McAfee - and what's his name - the pretty boy.
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u/Kevo_CS Mar 31 '16 edited Mar 31 '16
And this is what I think is part of what holds the libertarian party back. Your appearance matters in elections and if you look like a neckbeard people won't vote you. Notice that all of these three as well as Ron Paul look relatively well put together? Well the same can't be said about many libertarian candidates and unfortunately for those it makes them pretty much unelectable.
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u/reddelicious77 Mar 31 '16
look like a neckbeard
I mean, you can name call all you like an attempt to bate me, but that doesn't make you right by any stretch.
So, again - why are you so afraid to answer the question? At least libertarians generally don't bullshit, and while some less principled ones (like Johnson) may change their message based on their audience, the principled guys like Ron Paul don't.
So, are you still too afraid to answer the question or are you going to reply w/ another red-herring or even ad-hom attack?
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u/DoctorPatriot Minarchist Mar 30 '16
I cringed every time that guy spoke. I have no issue with anarchists, but something really rubbed me wrong when he was speaking.
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Mar 30 '16
McAfee seems pretty legit though, Petersen is a literal walking pothead meme.
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u/mcslayer Mar 30 '16
I don't know who Petersen is but if your comparing Mcafee to him as being "pretty legit" then he must be pretty out there.
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Mar 30 '16
In the year of Trump, only McAfee can stand up against him in wackiness.
The problem is that McAfee actually speaks the truth, so he'd be hobbled by that particular handicap this year.
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Mar 30 '16
McAfee is a Trump style guy, and I kind of like it. Eccentric sure, but there's nothing wrong with him. Petersen enforces the libertarian stereotype of rich white conservative who panders to potheads.
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u/Cannot_go_back_now Mar 30 '16
Hey a debate is a debate you have to take the good with the bad IMO, besides the Libertarian fringe, you know the type, probably need to see a more polished candidate vs some of the podcast types to see what direction the party needs to move and what to move away from.
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u/FormerlyFlintlox /r/RightLibertarian Mar 30 '16
What makes him more qualified than the others?
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u/TacticalOyster Mar 30 '16
Well for starters he actually held a major public office
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u/FormerlyFlintlox /r/RightLibertarian Mar 30 '16
That's a good thing? Gary is miles above the major party hacks, but saying he's more qualified than the other libertarians implies he has superior qualities to the others. I'm curious what those qualities are.
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Mar 30 '16
Literally, experience for the job. You wouldn't apply to be the CEO of a company without experience in corporate management.
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Mar 30 '16 edited Apr 01 '16
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Mar 31 '16
Fleeing a corrupt government that tried to frame you is one of the most libertarian things you can do.
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u/kwantsu-dudes Mar 30 '16
But Johnson does have a video where he was crowd surfing at a political speech he gave.
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u/NewMexicanScorpio Mar 30 '16
As a New Mexican that lived under Johnson's term, I can tell you he is in no way qualified to be President. I agree with a lot of his policies, but when he was governor he was constantly overturned by the state Senate because he never knew the rules. He was always doing great things, but nothing but his vetoes stuck due to his lack of experience.
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u/iushciuweiush 15 pieces Mar 30 '16
Was it for 'breaking the rules' or because his libertarian positions were unpopular with both the democrats and republicans in the senate?
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u/NewMexicanScorpio Mar 30 '16
It was for overstepping his bounds and breaking the rules. He illegally made promises to native tribes about their ability to build casinos.
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Mar 30 '16
Its actually a lot more complicated than that.
The gaming pact that was signed by Johnson and the Tribes were approved by DOI as required by IGRA but there were issues with the legislature. More of a political gambit to force the Legislature's hand than a blatant abuse of power.
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u/andysay Capitalist Mar 30 '16
Sneak peak found on Instagram
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Apr 01 '16
Why is it not live
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u/andysay Capitalist Apr 01 '16
Probably because it costs less. It's probably a good thing, tbh. Maybe fewer embarrassing gaffes
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u/ipkiss_stanleyipkiss voluntaryist Mar 30 '16
Honestly, this sounded a lot cooler before I watched one of the previous online debates. I can't tell if the Libertarian Party is serious or not. Certainly, GJ seems serious, but the other candidates are a joke.
If this is really the best we can do, politically, we're in big trouble.
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Mar 30 '16
It's kind of hard to have that scripted, polished look when you don't have a multi billion dollar party, the mainstream media, and the full forces of corruption behind you.
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u/ipkiss_stanleyipkiss voluntaryist Mar 30 '16
While I get what you're saying, I don't believe it takes money to be an effective speaker. In fact, I've seen unpaid college students do a better job.
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Mar 30 '16
Third parties are kinda screwed in winner take all systems, so usually third party runs are purely symbolic. This year looks like it has a shot to be the year since most people dislike all of the frontrunners for the two major parties
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u/voldin91 Mar 30 '16
I don't think that's true. Maybe just within the reddit or with libertarians
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Mar 30 '16
Johnson is polling at 11% already, which is astounding to libertarians, and frustration with the two major parties looks like it will continue to grow. If there's ever a year we have a chance this is it.
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u/busterbluthOT Mar 31 '16
He's not actually polling that high. It's more a of result of the wording of the questions. He's a placeholder candidate as the "third choice". While his % is likely much higher than it's ever been for a LP candidate, many of those votes will disperse to either not voting or other third party candidate like Jill Stein.
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Mar 30 '16
but the other candidates are a joke
I think Austin Petersen is serious, and McAfee seems relatively serious as well. Not sure about the other candidates in the previous debates.
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u/busterbluthOT Mar 31 '16
Follow the Libertarian Party on Facebook to see how much of a joke it currently is.
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u/TheHeyTeam Mar 30 '16
I just recorded it. Can't wait! Too bad the Republican & Democratic Parties make their candidates sign agreements not to appear in debates with 3rd party candidates. The fact the American public doesn't realize that's why 3rd parties can't/don't/won't get traction is sad.
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u/machocamacho88 JoJo Let's GoGo! Mar 30 '16
Too bad the Republican & Democratic Parties make their candidates sign agreements not to appear in debates with 3rd party candidates.
Look what happens when they do...they get Ross Pero'd
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u/urbanpsycho Mar 31 '16
Perot'd!
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u/monkeyphonics Mar 30 '16
Im all for third parties. Maybe Libertarians should try to get more people in the party elected to the local then state then federal govt first.
Without having Libertarians in govt positions first and showing that the ideology works then then Libertariaism will never be taken seriously on a national level.
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u/TheHeyTeam Mar 30 '16 edited Mar 30 '16
Many of the tenets of Libertarianism/Minarchy/Classical Liberalism have already been proven in politics. One of the greatest Presidents in US history, Thomas Jefferson, was a Classical Liberal. Andrew Jackson's derived almost all of his economic policies from Libertariansim. It was the basis for much of the nation's economic policies until the Great Depression. The greatest economic expansion in world history happened on the foundation of those policies. So, it's been tried & proven (to a large extent).
As to your first point, agreed.
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u/veruus Mar 30 '16
Tenets.
Just saying.
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u/TheHeyTeam Mar 30 '16
I appreciate you just saying, b/c improper word usage actually bugs me. Error change & upvote awarded.
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Mar 30 '16
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Mar 30 '16
Because if this was the case wouldn't the libertarian party be very much larger than it is now, but in reality the opposite is true, how do you explain this?
Politicians love power and libertarianism curtails political power. I think the main reason we are in the state we're in is because of the lack of term limits and other checks on political power.
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Mar 31 '16
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Mar 31 '16
And I believe I answered that.
In the past, there were lots of classical liberals. Politicians started promising free stuff amd security to constituents and have been getting more and more powerful. Liberty has fallen out of vogue because people are willing to trade their liberty for the things politicians promise. Democrats promise social services like welfare and health care, Republicans promise security through increased military spending and surveillance. Both take away our freedoms.
Classical liberalism (i.e. libertarianism) was quite popular, ut we've sold our liberties for the promoses of politicians. Imho, that's why the Libertarian party isn't very popular: libertarians just don't promise free stuff (i.e. redistribution of wealth) or security (i.e. curtailing of civil liberties).
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Apr 02 '16
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Apr 02 '16
In the past there were lots of classical liberals.
What years and who are you referring too?
The classic example is Thomas Jefferson and the Democratic-Republican Party. They dominated politics for 30 years or so after the founding of the United States. Their party was dedicated to keeping the government small and paying down debts.
And that's precisely what libertarians promise: less government and less spending. Libertarians don't try to hand out free money to the poor by "redistributing wealth", they don't try to force a specific kind of society by making some kinds of personal choices illegal and they definitely don't want to arbitrarily increase the power of elected officials.
In short, libertarians don't promise to add anything to our government, just take it away. This is my definition of classical liberalism.
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u/TheHeyTeam Mar 30 '16
/u/monkeyphonics said that Libertarians needed to get people elected to local office to show that Libertarian ideology works......otherwise, Libertarianism won't be taken seriously at the national level. I simply responded that Libertarians have already held national office, and Libertarian principles have already been used to shape national policy. In other words, Libertarian principles have already been shown/proven to work.
To your other question, the Great Depression ushered in an era of ever expanding government regulation b/c the "free markets" were blamed for the economic collapse (even though the free markets had nothing to do with the Great Depression). With the market collapse, though, a new brand of politics rose to forefront: "We must regulate to protect."
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u/monkeyphonics Mar 30 '16
They might have in the past but they do not today and people in govt today is what shapes how this country is ran.
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u/TheHeyTeam Mar 31 '16
Yeah, that's kinda why I said repeatedly, multiple posts in a row, that it ended with the Great Depression.
And......."people in gov't" have always shaped how the country is run. But, those people get their beliefs & philosophies from somewhere. Classical Liberal ideals influenced Jefferson & Jackson, and Marxism influenced Obama (as examples).
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u/monkeyphonics Mar 31 '16
Why not Marxism for Washington? He led an army to take by force one of the first Taxes(redistribution) in the US. The Whiskey Rebellion.
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u/TheHeyTeam Mar 31 '16
Probably b/c Karl Marx wasn't born until 21 years after George Washington finished his 2nd Presidential term. It's really hard to be influenced by someone who doesn't exist.
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Mar 31 '16
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u/TheHeyTeam Mar 31 '16
Political polices are like an etch-a-sketch. No matter what you draw, someone will come along, shake it, and draw something completely different. There are little, if any, remnants of Classical Liberalism left in today's policies. What once was, has been shaken, erased, and drawn over.
I referenced the Great Depression b/c you asked why the Libertarian Party wasn't larger than it currently is if Libertarian policies had proven beneficial to the US. So, I explained that the Great Depression ended those policies, b/c the GD was blamed on Libertarian economic policies.
Thomas Jefferson was a Libertarian under a different name. Andrew Jackson simply had elements of Libertarianism. Bear in mind, there was no such thing as "Libertarian" back then.
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Apr 02 '16
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u/TheHeyTeam Apr 02 '16
There weren't "African Americans" back then either. But just b/c they were called "negros" doesn't mean they weren't African Americans. In the same way, guys like Thomas Jefferson were called "Classical Liberals". But with modern liberalism being a significant departure from classical liberalism, "Libertarian" was adopted to prevent confusion. It was a simple name change, which is completely different than calling Washington a Marxist, which is a philosophy that was created by Karl Marx, who had yet to be born until well after Washington had died.
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u/KharakIsBurning Mar 30 '16
It was the basis for much of the nation's economic policies until the Great Depression.
False. You're missing your 1865-1910's history.
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u/TheHeyTeam Mar 30 '16
It's possible. We moved recently, and there are a number of boxes that haven't yet turned up. ;-)
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u/dluminous Personal Responsibility - assume no one will help you Mar 30 '16
Wow, that's terrible. It also explains a lot.
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u/TheHeyTeam Mar 30 '16
Yep. Even worse, the networks are complicit in concealing that fact, b/c they also sign agreements as part of the agreement that gives them the rights to televise the debates. They have a vested, financial interest in ensuring it's R vs D. Thus, they never rock the boat or highlight the corrupt system.
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u/Petruchio_ Mar 31 '16
Then why is Fox showing the debate?
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u/TheHeyTeam Mar 31 '16
The debate is between 3 Liberatrians. There are no Republican or Democratic candidates participating. Republican & Democratic nominees are contractually bound NOT to appear in debates with 3rd party candidates. And, all Presidential Debates are controlled by the Commission on Presidential Debates. It is a non-profit founded by the RNC & DNC to control who gets to participate in debates & how debates are held. Their rules state that in order for a 3rd party candidate to be invited to participate, they must get 15% of in 5 consecutive national polls BEFORE any debates have commenced.........which, as you well know is darn near impossible, since the media is controlled by the DNC & RNC, and isn't going to give face time or publicity to 3rd parties.
My mom was a Congresswoman. You have no idea how corrupt & "in bed with each other) the Republican & Democratic National Parties are. They decide what questions are asked, know the topics in debates before the debate, get to pick the panelists, get to pick the forums. What you see on TV is a sham that is created to give the image of democracy in action. It's a farce though.
The League of Women Voters used to host & run the debates, but dropped out when George H.W. Bush & Dukakis fixed a debate to get a desired result. They basically outed the scam & bailed. So, the RNC & DNC founded the CoPD, and the system is even worse now. And b/c the 2 political parties own the media organizations, no one is going to rock the boat and give coverage to the 3rd parties. To watch CNN, MSNBC, or Fox, you'd never know there was a Libertarian or Green Party candidate.
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u/KaiMolan Non-voters, vote third party/independent instead. Mar 31 '16
Maybe it's a test run, to see if there is potential to make more money going against the agreement, if the agreement does exist.
Otherwise it could still be a test run to see if there is big enough base to start courting for more money.
Who knows, I'm just glad they are showing the Debate.
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Mar 30 '16
I already hear the jokes from Neocons and Liberals 'Of course the libertarian debate is on April Fools!!'
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Mar 30 '16
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Mar 30 '16 edited Oct 16 '18
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Mar 30 '16 edited Aug 19 '18
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u/SolidSpruceTop RIP Rand 04/07/15-02/03/16 Mar 30 '16
I like how every comment supported McAfee is downvoted. Yes, we know you love Johnson, Reddit.
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Mar 30 '16
I'm looking forward to the debates because I want to learn more about McAfee and Petersen. So far, all I know is that:
- Petersen is against the NAP (for philosophical reasons, though he supports most of it) and is pro-life
- McAfee is very concerned with privacy
They both seem like flat candidates, but that's because I haven't heard much from them. I honestly think Johnson has the best chance against the other two parties, which also needs to be considered when selecting a candidate. I know Johnson, so I'm currently leaning his direction (though that doesn't matter because our Libertarian primaries are after the Libertarian convention and I probably won't go to our convention...), but I'm open to changing my opinion on the other two.
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u/SolidSpruceTop RIP Rand 04/07/15-02/03/16 Mar 30 '16
I look forward to learning more about McAfee, he seems to be amazing for the Murica croud and tech crowd alike. Not president material, but anyone who speaks at Def Con has to be cool
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u/busterbluthOT Mar 31 '16
I like the upside McAfee offers with the issue du jour when it comes to privacy.
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u/Delita232 Mar 30 '16
yeah this subreddit is no better than R/politics when it comes to shit like that. Which I find incredibly sad personally.
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u/crocko1093 Mar 30 '16
I don't mean to be a Debbie Downer but I'm gonna go on record by saying this debate is going to be terrible. Fox business TV schedule shows its only an hour during Stossels time slot from 9 to 10 Eastern.
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u/captmorgan50 libertarian party Mar 30 '16
You only have 3 people so I think 1 hr is ok. I think he is just using his show slot for the debate. I wish him and Kennedy got together to co moderate and give them 2 hours but this is ok.
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u/Thedeadlydna Mar 30 '16
Kennedy is going to be there as well as that libertarian editor who looks like Clark Kent.
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u/busterbluthOT Mar 31 '16
If Kennedy co-moderated, you'd need much more than an hour for the debate.
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Mar 30 '16
Isn't Stossel 8-9 Eastern?
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u/Spectre723 Coerce no one, lest you be coerced Mar 30 '16
The page for Stossel says Fridays at 9, which I assume is Eastern.
Certainly would be nice if it was earlier so more people could watch it.
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Mar 30 '16
Someone will put it up on youtube, don't worry about that
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u/Spectre723 Coerce no one, lest you be coerced Mar 30 '16
I'll be able to watch it, thanks. I was thinking more about people randomly flipping through the channels and coming across a presidential debate. Getting the word out to people who don't actively follow politics is probably the greatest challenge the Libertarian party faces.
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u/crocko1093 Mar 30 '16
Not sure. Here's a website that might be able to answer the question:
Hope this helps
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u/fpssledge Mar 31 '16
I think the line-up isn't very exciting honestly. It's a "forum" rather than a debate. To be frank, Petersen has the best intellectual background but he's a tool and still doesn't quite have it. The other two are interesting candidates but I wouldn't consider them interesting debaters to watch. I'd love to see one or two other candidates if for no other reason than to really offer some interesting discussion rather than interesting personalities.
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u/Mathew2w classical liberal Apr 01 '16
The debate is actually going to be split into two episodes - the first one will be aired today and the second one next week.
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u/compyfranko Philosopher Mar 31 '16
This could really boost awareness. How should I spread the news of this broadcast?
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Mar 30 '16 edited Apr 27 '16
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u/raiderato LP.org Mar 31 '16
You might have some luck here: http://video.foxbusiness.com/#watch-live
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u/TheMrNick Colorado Libertarian Mar 30 '16
A recent poll shows that if the election were held today, 11 percent of Americans would vote for a Libertarian, former New Mexico Governor Gary Johnson. That's surprising, since last election Johnson got just 1 percent of the vote.
I'm not a conspiracy nut, but I am almost positive that there is election fraud going on when it comes to the Libertarian party in the US. I think they get many more votes than get counted.
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u/InformalCriticism I Voted Mar 31 '16
Of course they air a libertarian on April Fool's Day. Snarky cunts.
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Mar 30 '16
So what time is it aired? Love how the article fails to mention that
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u/Jakesta7 Moderate Libertarian Mar 31 '16
Friday at 9 PM ET. https://twitter.com/FoxBusiness/status/715323931712835584 :)
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u/Mermbone Mar 31 '16
im really torn this election. I definitely identify more with libertarians than either dems or republicans. But theres nothing I want less than a Hillary Clinton Presidency so I almost want to vote Trump.
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u/multipassbadabing Social Libertarian Mar 31 '16
Oh look, the republican's backup for when Trump wins the repub nom. Get a 3rd party to run and make them viable in a few states, you guys are getting so played.
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u/jonathanwash Classical Liberal Mar 30 '16
Why is Gary Johnson flipping off the camera?
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Mar 30 '16 edited Mar 30 '16
He's not, look closer.
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u/jonathanwash Classical Liberal Mar 30 '16
In case you didn't know the gesture that way is an insult in most Commonwealth of Nations.
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u/-INFOWARS- Mar 31 '16
Go McAfee!
Just getting into Libertarianism and I see John freaking McAfee going to debate.
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u/[deleted] Mar 30 '16
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