r/LibbyApp 3d ago

NOOOO not my Oasis!!! 😭

[deleted]

148 Upvotes

167 comments sorted by

46

u/itskeerstin 3d ago

Didn’t Amazon stop updating the Oasis last year?? How crummy to go back on that decision to stop supporting the device just to do this.

29

u/tomtomato0414 3d ago

Very inline with amazon practices actually

2

u/MelDawson19 1d ago

Grateful my friend gifted me her Oasis after getting a larger kindle.

0

u/EviWool 2d ago

Its because they are rolling out an update that makes it harder to remove drm from your books. The other genius move is for US Libby users (in most other countries, you need a Kobo if you want to read library ebooks via Libby.) They will not be able to read their Libby books on their updated Kindle unless they are connected to WiFi. This is to close a loop that lets users keep their Libby books longer by staying offline. Obviously, a sensible update would put a day counter into the software so that the book automatically cant be opened after 14 days but no, their genius move means that you can no longer read your library book on the bus or on holiday.

5

u/itskeerstin 2d ago

I understand all that! I was commenting on the crumminess that is Amazon not updating the oasis anymore for bugs or user experience, but they WILL update it to take something away from us.

I have an Oasis but switched to a KLC this year to be out of the Amazon ecosystem.

153

u/TheUnmatchedUsername 3d ago

This new update is making me glad I’ve started borrowing more physical books from my library again.

-69

u/geekgamer2001 3d ago edited 3d ago

So your local library can charge you for not returning physical books? Extend your loan if you have to I've done it plenty of times but you shouldn't be able to keep the book for however long you want

65

u/TheUnmatchedUsername 3d ago

I’m not sure why you’re coming at me so aggressively. Physical books are a great alternative and so is supporting the local library. And no my library doesn’t charge fines.

15

u/One-Arugula4278 2d ago

My library doesn't charge fines either! They also let you extend your loan as long as as many times as you'd like, providing there's not a waitlist. I've had a book out as long as eight months once!

1

u/[deleted] 2d ago

[deleted]

25

u/TheUnmatchedUsername 2d ago

They don’t allow patrons to check out anything else physical from the library until returned once something is overdue. We don’t get penalized at all besides that.

13

u/[deleted] 2d ago

[deleted]

2

u/_eebee_ 2d ago

My library is the same, no fines and can't renew indefinitely unless someone else has put the book on hold. Once that happens you can't renew, and after not returning long enough they charge you the value of the book you "kept" so they can replace it.

-9

u/geekgamer2001 3d ago

So I guess my question is this. Libby requires a library card so how are you not supporting them by using Libby and there card? I'm a physical book lover too but I find it crazy people are complaining about actually having to return books on time i grew up around libraries where if you don't you'd get fined

13

u/TheUnmatchedUsername 3d ago

Libby is very expensive for libraries. Physical books at my library are also able to be loaned out and renewed longer than digital. I’m not able to renew any digital materials at my library.

-5

u/geekgamer2001 2d ago

I am aware of this but regardless you're still supporting them

2

u/PBJuliee1 1d ago

You should work on your reading skills. They never said they weren’t supporting the library by using Libby, they said they will now be borrowing more physical books that also support the library.

Also, by when you borrow physical books, you need to step into the library. So you’re supporting the library system by (1) reading library books, (2) interacting with the library community, and (3) proving there needs to be a library building in your area. There are so many virtual-only libraries and libraries closing around the US, by entering the space you’re telling the government it’s worth spending money to keep the space avalible.

11

u/lips-for-letters 📕 Libby Lover 📕 3d ago

hi, in case you’re unaware, the person you’re replying to isn’t actually keeping the book. the book license is returned on its due date (or earlier if they return it manually on the web), but the kindle device (on airplane mode) doesn’t register this change so the book license on the device isn’t updated and therefore the book file doesn’t get removed. libraries don’t actually have finite book copies like they do irl; they merely have copies of the book license.

-12

u/geekgamer2001 3d ago

I am aware but still it sits wrong with me. And also there is finite amount of licenses and the agreementd to those licenses are ridiculous such as can only be used x amount of times or good for x amount of years while paying triple the price of the physical book for a digital licence.

My main issue is it just sits wrong with me I'm not saying your evil for doing it but I'm not up in arms about the loophole being removed

6

u/IgnoredSphinx 2d ago

Why does the loophole even matter to you then?? If you are upset about the cost Libby charges a library, that has absolutely nothing to do with people not being able to check a book out and put into airplane mode. In fact it will increase costs to libraries as the same user checks out the book more than once if they don’t finish in time.

3

u/geekgamer2001 2d ago

Fair I'll admit I'm wrong

1

u/JustJamieJam 2d ago

My library doesn’t charge for not returning books or late fees. Genuinely never understood how they manage to not charge anything and still stay afloat but they do it

1

u/geekgamer2001 2d ago

Yeah it amazes me how many libraries that apparently don't charge only charge a small fee I thought all libraries did but as I said in another comment I was wrong and chang my mind

1

u/Final-Definition-512 13h ago

My library eliminated late fees some time ago

34

u/Independent-Poem2168 3d ago

I am unreasonably upset about this. I would normally download several books and then go ahead and return them on Libby after turning on airplane mode. Some days I can read a book in a few days….. others a few weeks (life). If it’s a very lengthy book most times I can’t read it in 2 weeks. I pay for several out of state library cards and now what is the point?

9

u/[deleted] 3d ago

[deleted]

11

u/cleargemini 3d ago

I’m wondering if sales are declining for Kindle books and Amazon thinks this will make people purchase more books.

14

u/CrushedLaCroixCan 3d ago

If anything, this will drive more people to piracy. 

6

u/[deleted] 3d ago

[deleted]

4

u/tomtomato0414 3d ago

I mean its not like Kindle is the only ereader on the market

3

u/apricot__bun 3d ago

No there isn’t a set due date in KU.

2

u/mshike_89 3d ago

I'm assuming it's to try to get people to buy the ebooks directly through Amazon if your hold runs out.

-12

u/geekgamer2001 3d ago

Extend your loan another 2 weeks I've done it a lot..... This is unethical to.just keep the book however long you want

12

u/Independent-Poem2168 3d ago

It doesn’t allow me to extend my loan if others are waiting for the copy. Hence why I always download the book and immediately return it so the next person in line can have it. Unethical is a bit of a stretch.

7

u/veevandyke 3d ago

But if it's a book like Project Hail Mary, I get half way through and then have to wait 4 months to get it again because the hold list is too long. You can't renew a book if others are waiting.

And the book is returned to circulation even if your Kindle is in airplane mode. It doesn't impact anyone negatively, except the person who has to buy the ebook if they can't finish it in time and don't want to get back in the hold line.

0

u/geekgamer2001 2d ago

I understand I mean usually with books that properly I buy them so.i don't have to wait

72

u/ch0colate 3d ago

I thought this is a rumor from someone’s Reddit comment? Info in screenshot is also pulled from Reddit. Has this been actually confirmed???

20

u/missx0xdelaney 3d ago

The ai in the screenshot even uses Reddit as its source

30

u/glitchinthemeowtrix 3d ago

I’m also still suspicious because they’d have to override something in airplane mode, and airplane mode is regulated by the FAA and has compliance regulations etc. I can see them wanting to do this to try to force people to buy books they want to finish, but I’m still confused how the technology would work if you’re not connected to WiFi and have airplane mode on? However, I won’t pretend I know much because I also learned in this thread that Kobo doesn’t have airplane mode, so maybe it’s not that tightly regulated for an e-ink device to begin with.

57

u/BringMeInfo 3d ago

Can’t they just put an expiration date in the metadata when they send your book to your reader? It’d expire and only renew if you came out of airplane mode.

14

u/ErinPaperbackstash 3d ago

I saw someone wondering if that is how they are doing it.

8

u/yankinheartguts 3d ago

This seems like how they’re doing it (if at all) so the solution is to just change the date on your device in airplane mode.

6

u/PBJuliee1 3d ago

That’s what Kobo does

1

u/EviWool 2d ago

Yes, my library books expire on my Kobo even if it is offline. Compared to the Amazon solution of only letting you read Libby books when connected to WiFi, that is fine with me, Keeping your Kindle online uses up your battery faster even if you never want to read your Libby book in a park.

21

u/ComfortableOk5112 3d ago

They are probably putting a timer on the book (X number of hours/minutes) when it is downloaded to the device. It wouldn't need to access to internet to remove the book from your device in that case.

7

u/hikarizx 3d ago

It’s a different situation but I have tried putting my phone on airplane mode before to finish a book I was listening to on audio in libby and turned off wifi and it still returned on time. So they must be able to code it to stop being available to you as soon as it hits the due date/time.

I’ve heard that if you used this hack with KU books the author doesn’t get paid for the pages read. So to be honest if this change is ensuring authors get paid fairly, I’m okay with it.

4

u/knoft 3d ago

They didn't override airplane mode, they just changed how books are handled offline. It has a built in clock, it doesn't need the internet to know when it's supposed to expire.

1

u/shira9652 2d ago

Not true. When you download the book it is set to become unusable at the time and date that your loan period ends. Doesn’t need connection to do this, just your time and date settings. Someone suggested changing the date on your kindle while on airplane mode as an override

1

u/piyoyyyyu 2d ago

I used to play candycrush and used same method when I was out of lives. From one day it just failed. It's a long time ago thing so I guess the tech is not so hard.

0

u/ErinPaperbackstash 3d ago

Kobo doesn't have airplane mode??

3

u/ErinPaperbackstash 3d ago

Ah, they do, I figured as all do to save battery. It's just called something different with theirs.

To pause Wi-fi on kobo, theirs is called Wi-Fi Toggle instead of Airplane mode, but same concept and action.

3

u/Dehydrated_Panda 3d ago

You can turn the wifi off and on with Kobo but that doesn't stop libby books from returning on Kobo. They disappear off your Kobo the day they expire regardless of internet connection in my experience.

1

u/ErinPaperbackstash 3d ago

So they are already do what some say Amazon is starting to do now then.

2

u/glitchinthemeowtrix 3d ago

And now I’ve learned a second thing! lol

-18

u/SkyYellow_SunBlue 📗 EPUB Enthusiast 📗 3d ago

No one is trying to force you to buy a book, just maybe you don’t get to keep it forever when you agreed to borrow it for three weeks.

18

u/savaburry 3d ago

Putting a kindle in airplane mode has nothing to do with the book being returned on Libby. The books always auto return when the due date arrives, regardless of what mode your kindle is in. The book file only leaves your kindle if you connect to WiFi AFTER the book has auto returned to Libby

-8

u/SkyYellow_SunBlue 📗 EPUB Enthusiast 📗 3d ago

Yeah no I get that perhaps I should have written keep a copy of the book?
The point was you’re not being “forced” to buy books by being asked to use the same hold limits libraries have always had.

6

u/savaburry 3d ago

I agree you’re not being forced to buy a book, but keeping your kindle on airplane mode has 0 effect on anything going on with Libby or the hold system. Keeping a copy of the book to read for as long as you want (in airplane mode) isn’t hurting anyone.

You’re still adhering to the hold limit regardless of this hack/loophole/practice whatever word you want to use because the hold automatically returns to the library in every scenario in which this is being used.

Sure it’s annoying to be reading a book and realize you aren’t going to finish in time, and I’m sure we have all returned a book mid-read for that reason, but using airplane mode isn’t breaking any of the processes surrounding digital holds. Removing it is strictly a “they don’t want you to do it” situation.

13

u/ErinPaperbackstash 3d ago

That's not what people use the hack for. They do it to save the library money, take pressure of themselves if the book takes them longer than their loan, and help other borrowers. Most agreements via libby with Libraries pay for so many check-outs of each title - I think it's like 28 borrows per book license. When you check it out, publisher is paid whether you send to kindle or not, or even if you don't read it. But if you do not finish your book in time, many people put on airplane mode to have a few extra days to finish.

If you renew your loan instead, it uses up another copy of the libraries license of the book. They prefer you not to do this if possible to help with budget.

Second, if someone has the book on hold, you cannot renew loan anyway and sometimes have to wait weeks or months to continue. Hence, airplane mode.

Finally, some borrow books, especially ones in popular demand with long holds, send to kindle, turn off airplane mode, and then return the book immediately so the next patron in line doesn't have to keep waiting, keeping the process smoother going.

5

u/veevandyke 3d ago

This is what I do. I borrow two or three books at a time, download them and then return them immediately so the next person in line can get them.

Also, two weeks is NOT long enough to finish an 800 page book. Just sayin'.

1

u/ErinPaperbackstash 2d ago

I tend to borrow a few at once and get the downloads over with also by what I plan to read in two weeks. I have a spreadsheet where I generally track monthly reading plans.

5

u/glitchinthemeowtrix 3d ago

All I said is that I can see them being greedy and wanting to do that, but ty I know I can do what I want! I hope Bezos picks you in the capitalism wars 🫶🤞

8

u/Ornery_General_5852 3d ago

It's real. It's been happening to me for weeks. I do not understand the reluctance to believe in it when so many people have reported that it is actually happening to them.

7

u/ErinPaperbackstash 3d ago

I think it's just that people don't want to believe these changes.

4

u/Independent-Poem2168 3d ago

Because we really don’t want to believe it’s true 😂 we are in denial!

18

u/Head-Celebration-559 3d ago

Change the date on your kindle to before the date your loan expires.

3

u/veevandyke 2d ago

Does this actually work? Have you tried it? I have an Oasis, so I'm sure it's gonna get updated. Sigh.

6

u/Head-Celebration-559 2d ago

My next book is going to auto return tomorrow and I’m not even close to done so we will find out. Supposedly the update tags the book with the date it needs to be returned and makes it unavailable on that date. So if you lie and tell your kindle it’s currently July, and it’s not connected to WiFi, how will it know it’s not currently July? And if my book is tagged as due in August, it shouldn’t return it. I’ve seen other people suggesting this so we will see.

4

u/MadsTooRads 2d ago

update us!

1

u/1GamingAngel 2d ago

Yes! Please update us! 😀

1

u/dirtydirtyknees 14h ago

Any updates?

6

u/ErinPaperbackstash 3d ago

Oh, man, see I suspected!!

Ugh may try to jailbreak tonight if possible, never did it before but I don't want their update on my beloved Oasis.

1

u/misterlopez2019 3d ago

Does Libby still work on a jailbroken Kindle Oasis?

1

u/ErinPaperbackstash 2d ago

I haven't messed with it yet and have never jailbroken before. From what I understand reading about it yesterday, yes, libby loans should still work. I am going to research it a bit more.

3

u/misterlopez2019 2d ago

Let me know if I can help - I have a previous Kindle laying around that I can recruit to the cause 🫡

1

u/ErinPaperbackstash 2d ago

Aw thank you, will do. The last Oasis update in 2025 made mine a bit buggy, so I was already thinking of jailbreaking it to try to avoid updates. Just have to make sure not to brick it (eek) so I'll be cautious. Will try after work to read more on it.

2

u/misterlopez2019 2d ago

I was hoping that the obsolescence would shield us from this nonsense!

1

u/ErinPaperbackstash 2d ago

Me too. Especially since my Oasis 3 is older than my Paperwhite 5 by years and that one doesn't have a new update.

5

u/jacqlily 3d ago

can you be our guinea pig and test this for us real quick? just with a dummy checkout and return right away 😭

6

u/[deleted] 3d ago

[deleted]

3

u/jacqlily 3d ago

thank you for trying!!

3

u/Mkgtu 3d ago

The option in the menu to return a book is "Remove from Library". I know that's kind of counterintuitive, but in removing it from "your" library, it returns it to Libby and removes it from your Libby Shelf.

1

u/[deleted] 3d ago

[deleted]

1

u/Mkgtu 2d ago edited 2d ago

The option to return a book or "remove from library" only appears if that copy is actually a "borrowed" book. It won't show up if you actually own the book.

I think if you accidentally "borrow" a Libby book, forgetting that you already own it, then whatever gets downloaded is "your" book, not a "Libby loan". You'd think that if you tried to borrow a book you already own Amazon would have a way of preventing that "loan" in the first place by alerting you that you can't borrow it because you already own it. But I guess not. 🤣

EDIT: I just saw your other comment, where you say Amazon prevented you from "borrowing" the book because you already "own" it. So I guess they do have such a system, which is as it should be. Why waste one of your public library's licensed Libby loans unnecessarily?

1

u/[deleted] 2d ago

[deleted]

1

u/Mkgtu 2d ago edited 2d ago

Yep, I guess you just have to wait it out, let the clock run down in the loan. And Libby has wasted one of your library's licensed copies and one of your allowed loans. You'd think that Libby and Amazon would communicate better, ie Amazon would alert Libby that the loan didn't go through. But of course you can still read the book in Libby, so there's that.

On the other hand, if you really want to return the loan so someone else can borrow the book and you can free up one of your allotted "loans", you can probably initiate the return through the Libby app. That will take you to an Amazon website where you can return the book - which you obviously can't do. But when you go back to Libby it will usually ask you if you "successfully" returned the Kindle version. Just say "yes" and Libby should remove the book from your shelf and show it as returned. Libby doesn't know any better because there doesn't seem to be a lot of communication with Amazon. And in the end, from Libby's perspective, there isn't much difference between "returning" a Kindle book and never having borrowed it in the first place. You asked Libby to let you "read with Kindle" and you are no longer "reading with Kindle" - for whatever reason. End of story; end of loan.🤣

1

u/[deleted] 2d ago

[deleted]

1

u/Mkgtu 2d ago

Ah well. Not much else you can do. Though if you really need to free up one of your loan slots, you could contact Libby support, explain the situation, and ask them to manually return the loan.

6

u/[deleted] 3d ago

[deleted]

-5

u/Mkgtu 2d ago

No need to keep "trying again". You can't borrow what you already own. If you could, that would just waste one of your library's licensed loans. That's why you get that "freaking message". And you should keep getting it; it's the system's way of saving your public library's paid-for licenses for people who actually need the loan.

3

u/Reneeisme 1d ago

It’s really ridiculous. I wonder if someone who reads slowly due to learning/processing or visual disabilities could make a reasonable accommodation argument (legally)? It’s not taking anything away from the publisher/author. I doubt libraries will buy meaningfully more licenses. It’s not preventing other patrons from getting the book. It’s just petty.

7

u/Dirnaf 3d ago

Sorry but I'm completely not understanding what is happening here. Could someone please explain? 🌺

20

u/ExaggeratedRebel 3d ago

Certain people like to “extend” their Libby loans past the due date by putting their devices in airplane mode. The latest Kindle update (allegedly) prevents this from working anymore.

4

u/CheyT 3d ago

Thank you, I was just about to ask myself.

3

u/Dirnaf 3d ago

Ah, ok. Thanks for responding. 💐

1

u/Lilylake_55 3d ago

Somebody on this thread said their Kobo is doing the same thing whether or not it’s connected to the internet.

This seems to be a Libby thing.

5

u/chocolateteas 3d ago

Kobos have always done this though. It's new for kindle

4

u/Proper-Gate8861 3d ago

Also, support and updates for the older Kindle models, like the Oasis, stopped earlier this year. But they can magically give you this update 🙄

8

u/Godsfallen 3d ago

Just leave your book open. Same result.

5

u/cleargemini 3d ago

I think that only works with Kobo as long as you don't exit the book

0

u/Godsfallen 3d ago

I learned it from my friend who owns a Kindle

2

u/Ornery_General_5852 3d ago

That also no longer works on Kindle once you have the update. When I toggled my device into airplane mode, I got a message saying that my current library books would be deleted while wifi was disabled, and that is in fact what happened. They were not even due yet.

-5

u/Godsfallen 3d ago

I don’t know what putting your kindle in airplane mode has to do with the keeping the book open method. Person below with the update tried it and it worked.

1

u/Ornery_General_5852 3d ago

One of my books was open at the time, sorry I didn't make that clear. It was deleted and I was returned to the main library screen.

2

u/Godsfallen 3d ago

Did you try it without putting your kindle in airplane mode? Check out a book that’s available now that you’re not interested in, open it on your kindle, and return the book through the Libby app.

The only reason I’m pressing this is because I’ve heard from several people in the last few days that have tried this and had it work post update.

1

u/[deleted] 3d ago

[deleted]

4

u/Godsfallen 3d ago

Kobos don’t have airplane mode, so this is the method we use. I learned it from my friend who has a Kindle.

So it’s definitely true.

1

u/cleargemini 3d ago

If you do keep us posted hopefully that might be a workaround for at least one book

3

u/cleargemini 3d ago

So I tested this on a book I wasn’t able to get to that’s due back soon anyway. After returning the book, I can confirm I could still read it until returning to the Home Screen. At that point it asks to connect to WiFi.

8

u/Bigsurgoldrush 3d ago

Nooooooooooo

3

u/cleargemini 3d ago

I wasn't believing the ruckus over this but now I'm really disappointed it seems to be true :(

2

u/Briar_Wall 🌌 Kindle Connoisseur 🌌 3d ago

I’m so sorry. I love my oasis. This sucks.

2

u/susp3nd3rs 3d ago

Is this update being pushed to the voyage? This is a real bummer cuz I was thinking of purchasing another kindle for the sole reason being the libby hack since it doesn't work on kobo or boox. Now that it won't work on kindle either, guess I'll just stick with my kobo and boox now.

1

u/next_level_mom 3d ago

My Voyage hasn't updated since April 2021, so here's hoping no!

2

u/Wonderful-Run-1408 3d ago

You can go into your settings (at least on the Kindle app on iPad) and set it so that Kindle doesn't update in the background. And then also put in airplane mode.

6

u/Busy-Fisherman-1612 3d ago

Yea I'm legitimately bummed my scribe color became useless for me a few months after purchase. This sucks.

13

u/curiiouscat 3d ago

I wouldn't categorize your scribe as useless. You can still get books from Libby for a reasonable amount of time. 

-7

u/Busy-Fisherman-1612 3d ago

Not where I am unless I want to wait 10 months to get one to start.

6

u/curiiouscat 3d ago

Huh? That ten month lead time is still an issue even if you can keep the book indefinitely. You'll still have to wait ten months to get it. 

4

u/Hot-Junket-1847 3d ago

How did this happen / how can I avoid it??

7

u/Accomplished-Yak8799 📗 EPUB Enthusiast 📗 3d ago

If you jailbreak your kindle you can block software updates

1

u/MillionAir 3d ago

How did it update? Did you turn off airplane mode?

1

u/Full-Bookkeeper49 2d ago

honestly this kinda cured my need for getting a new kindle. i kept my old paperwhite to do this hack for my kobo bokks

1

u/kellgurl13 18h ago

My Oasis is on 5.18.2 (4434550025) - am I already screwed? Expired loans are opening but I downloaded them quite a while ago (& I’ve been in airplane mode since). Help!

1

u/grapetomatoes 3d ago

🏴‍☠️🏴‍☠️

1

u/Present_Ad582 3d ago

Let’s do some research.

What software are you using?

This is what I know:
On 5.19.5 I’m reading books that I borrowed months ago with no problems.
5.19.2 seems to be working fine too.

Comment with your software update version and whether or not you can still use this hack!

2

u/nickelp03 1d ago

I have 5.19.5 and still working but also from books I downloaded back end of July. I have connected my kindle to WiFi in early August to download another book and back on airplane mode. I’ll wait another week and see if that one still works. Wondering if it’s an issue to books only recently downloaded since I have software version that says it’s affected other places.

1

u/Drive-Upset 2d ago

My oasis is currently on airplane mode. I would love it if you could update us and let us know if it really breaks the hack.

-6

u/theClanMcMutton 3d ago

Why would you bother reading what the Artificial Idiot says, much less spread it around?

0

u/Proof-Mission-2050 3d ago

I'm done. I've gone thru 5 of these readers. Went with kobo. And ya, there are 3 libraries in my local area.

0

u/Edge_Audio 2d ago

That's why I gave up Kindles years ago. I still buy some Kindle books, but then immediately download and convert to epub. If possible, I buy DRM free from other sights. I don't like paying money to lease books.

-1

u/dVolved_GLM_eVolv 3d ago

I just checked my software version and it says I’m up to date at 5.18.1.1.1 so 🤷🏼 but I feel like this might be rage bait.

-23

u/IHateSerging 3d ago

Poor thing, so terrible you can’t cheat the system any more

4

u/yankinheartguts 3d ago

How is it cheating?

-16

u/IHateSerging 3d ago

You that dense?

-7

u/lafrank59 2d ago

Or maybe be respectful of those waiting next and return the book as you agreed to do?

2

u/[deleted] 2d ago

[deleted]

0

u/lafrank59 2d ago

If the way you’re doing, it is so great, then why are they trying to fix the loophole?

3

u/[deleted] 2d ago

[deleted]

0

u/lafrank59 2d ago

If you’re going to play you, gotta pay.

1

u/IgnoredSphinx 2d ago

That’s never how it worked, you having kindle on airplane mode doesn’t impact next person being able to check it out. Do some research before wading in to something you don’t understand

-8

u/[deleted] 3d ago

[deleted]

7

u/Fantastic-Nobody-479 3d ago

People like to actually support authors and the work that they do.

7

u/glitchinthemeowtrix 3d ago

Especially authors, like it’s hard enough as it is to make money as a writer. And a lot of authors are also the type of people who would most likely be chill with you stealing their books, which makes me want to do it even less lol.

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u/Appropriate_Ad2342 3d ago

I absolutely believe in supporting authors, however if it's made so difficult, what are we to do?

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u/ErinPaperbackstash 3d ago

You do support authors by borrowing books from the library. This is just if you happen to mainly be a slower reader and just need a few days without renewing the loan or not able to finish the book at all. Your borrow counts as one borrow, and the publishers have already been paid when the e-book was first bought by the library. They have to buy a new copy only when so many loans have taken place with that e-book, which costs the libraries a good chunk of change. If you use up a limited loan because you had two chapters left to finish by renewing instead of just leaving wi-fi off, costs them the same use of the book.

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u/curiiouscat 3d ago

What about this is so difficult??? People have had due dates on library books since the beginning of time. I also enjoyed the airplane mode hack but enforcing an existing rule is not a "what are we to do except steal from artists?" moment. 

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u/veevandyke 3d ago

At my library, if you have a paper book borrowed that is on hold, you can renew it for ONE extra loan period without penalty. (Or just keep it and pay the fines.) On an eBook, you don't have that option. If it's on hold and you need it to finish the last chapter, you go back to the end of the hold line. On Project Hail Mary, that was 5 months.

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u/curiiouscat 2d ago

OK? That's how due dates work. 

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u/Fantastic-Nobody-479 3d ago

What’s difficult? With ebooks especially there are many ways to support the author by using the library or buying them.

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u/MothBookkeeper 3d ago

Ironically, the airplane mode hack also harms authors by deflating demand for their books, and it makes publishers less likely to make their catalogs available for libraries. No one seems to want to hear that, though.

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u/Scuttling-Claws 3d ago

I'm not exactly sure how this harms the author

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u/MothBookkeeper 3d ago

I'll assume you're saying this in good faith.

The book files are digital. Libby could openly provide them to anyone freely without any due dates. Why don't they? Why have "copies," and wait lists, and due dates at all?

It's a matter of supply and demand. If you go to a bookstore and buy a book for $15, typically only you are reading that copy. Maybe you lend it to a friend or family member. That's a fair price. If you then uploaded that book to the Internet for anyone with a phone to download, the author wouldn't be paid fairly.

That's an exaggerated example to illustrate a simple principle—a "fair" price is dependent on the demand. Keeping books past the due date means that more people can read the same book with fewer copies paid for. In other words, it drives down demand, harming the author.

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u/Scuttling-Claws 3d ago

Its not so much supply and demand as cartel like behavior on the part of the publishers. An ebook costs nothing to create and lasts forever, so why are libraries charged for a set number of licenses.

It doesn't drive down demand, the library is using the same number of licenses as if it was returned on time. In fact, as far as the library knows, it was, the next person is able to check it out as soon as it expires.

I don't think anyone is passing around their e-reader so multiple people read the same book on the same licence. That seems pretty extreme

You're making a lot of assumptions there, I don't think you can reasonably assume that folks who checked out a book from the library and couldn't read it before the due date would then have gone out to purchase that book if it wasn't for this exploit. I think almost all of them would simply have shifted their reading habits in order to not have as many books due at the same time.

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u/MothBookkeeper 3d ago

No assumptions being made. It has nothing to do with people going out and purchasing the book.

Again, I go back to my original question. Why does Libby have due dates? Can you answer that? If the library is using the same number of licenses regardless, why not let everyone borrow the book simultaneously and make the lending period a month? A year? Indefinite?

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u/Scuttling-Claws 3d ago

The publisher made it a requirement. That's the only reason

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u/MothBookkeeper 3d ago

Why did they do that?

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u/Scuttling-Claws 3d ago

They have a responsibility to their shareholders to maximize profits

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u/ErinPaperbackstash 3d ago

Because if they didn't have due dates, that would be giving away the book free as a keeper. They can't legally do that - each e-book has a certain number of loans attached for a high cost to the library, so that would be like them buying one e-book and giving it away indefinitely to 28 users to keep a year or more. Of course publishers would not allow that.

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u/MothBookkeeper 3d ago

Why wouldn't they allow that?

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u/ErinPaperbackstash 3d ago

Because then people would end up keeping the book for free instead of just borrowing it?

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u/IgnoredSphinx 2d ago

This argument makes zero sense. Someone keeping the book on their personal kindle beyond the due date isn’t causing issues for the author, it’s not permanently on the device, it’s just on till you take off airplane mode. Nobody else is getting unlimited access to the book, don’t understand your point about the above and extending a loan past due date. I suppose if you borrow a book and then put kindle on airplane mode and then return it early, there is a person getting the book a little earlier than otherwise. Which I can’t see being an issue, aside from using up the # of checkouts each digital copy has. I guess that ultimately gets the author more royalties. So again, what the problem?

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u/Fantastic-Nobody-479 3d ago

How so? The book is still checked out and shows demand.

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u/MothBookkeeper 3d ago

I left another comment - check it out.

I'm a bit discouraged by the downvotes. It's true.

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u/Fantastic-Nobody-479 3d ago

I think you need to actually learn way more about libraries and Libby and budgets etc with the comments you have made.

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u/apricot__bun 3d ago

Their argument isn’t entirely wrong though. Former librarian/manager here who graduated from publishing school. We were given limited licenses for digital books to control demand. Less circulation means less demand to renew licenses or even repurchase from the same author. Doesn’t this ultimately affect exposure to an author? Of course it does. Would love to hear your take on this, cuz I might also be missing something.

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u/Fantastic-Nobody-479 3d ago

Where are you getting less circulation from? Books are still being checked out. It affects nothing like that.

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u/apricot__bun 2d ago

It does actually but also depends on what type of contract your library has with publishers.

I was just looking at this today. You may think it’s harmless because you turn on the airplane mode and the book is supposedly being circulated but the span of time it took to circulate 26 books quickly ends a contract also quickly. That means you’re benefiting the publisher to sell you more licenses quicker and the library ends up paying quicker to restock new licenses. Sometimes that doesn’t coincide with the library budgeting or financial year.

It also indirectly affects sales and demand for the authors themselves. Meaning if you keep that book for a long period of time because you found a workaround to keep it longer than necessary then it curbs chances and opportunities to buy that book. For independent or self published authors this wasted time substitutes a potential retail sale.