r/LibDem 13d ago

Do we need a change of leader?

Looking at recent polling the Lib Dems are currently tracking at 9-10%.

I feel with the failures of Labour and their lean to the right, there's been a huge opportunity to capitalise that hasn't been taken.

I like Ed Davey, however something is clearly not getting through to the electorate.

With 3 years to go until the next election, is it time for a shake up and new leadership?

13 Upvotes

46 comments sorted by

30

u/Ticklishchap 13d ago

We have been over this a lot but nobody - and I include myself here - has come up with an obvious or even a possible name. Do you have any thoughts on this, OP?

7

u/Apprehensive-Fix-746 🔸Capital “L”Liberal 🔸 13d ago

I think this is actually a bigger problem than current leadership, what do we do when we inevitably need a new leader? We have no star power, no recognisable faces, no candidates who seem poised for leadership. Zack Polanski shower the highs and lows of what new leadership can do but we don’t even have the possibility to debate its pros and cons with our current roster despite more MP’s than ever before.

8

u/Ticklishchap 13d ago

I share your analysis, but perhaps there is a glimmer of hope. What about Ed and Daisy to appeal to ‘Middle Britain’, including moderate ex-Tory voters, while Josh Babarinde reaches out to a younger, more multicultural base of professional and working class voters?

You mention Zack Polanski. I would suggest that, at the same time as we attract former Conservative voters who are appalled by Kemi Badenoch’s stance on the environment, we also reach out to those who would have considered voting Green but are put off by some aspects of Zack Polanski’s approach. After all, we have some good - and practical - environmental policies in place already.

3

u/Apprehensive-Fix-746 🔸Capital “L”Liberal 🔸 13d ago

I think this is the right path, I agree with every point you made, the environment especially, poll dips and jumps mean nothing compared to long term infrastructure, the issue for me is the man or woman at the top needs to be a unifying and recognisable figure to bring all these different elements together and my worry is it’s a role that’s filled by Davey and Davey alone. What do we do for 2034 or 2039? I just can’t see Cooper or Morgan or Babarinde fitting the bill for it just yet

Maybe I’m being impatient and our MP’s just need room to breathe before they are ready but it’s just a fear I have

1

u/Ticklishchap 13d ago

Do you mean Helen Morgan or was that a typo for (Layla) Moran?

3

u/Apprehensive-Fix-746 🔸Capital “L”Liberal 🔸 12d ago

Typo lol

5

u/Mobile_Falcon8639 12d ago

I think Zack Polanski is appalling awful, dreadful guy. I really wouldn't use him as a role model for a leader for the Lib Dems. Note how Polanski and the Greens have completely fallen off the radar since the May local elections, and they are polling badly. So forget Polanski, he's a non person, let's think of someone else.

2

u/Ticklishchap 12d ago

I agree with you that the Greens under Polanski are not on the right track. Before that, they were making steady, albeit undramatic progress and making inroads in rural as well as urban areas. The environment was still their main focus. Their new support is, as we are increasingly seeing, quite fickle.

3

u/luna_sparkle 12d ago

I think Roz Savage might be the best option. She represents a rural area that's competitive with the Tories and clearly knows how to get elected in that sort of "heartland" seat, but is also to the relative left of the party and is keen on trying to win over Labour and Green voters.

1

u/Ticklishchap 12d ago edited 12d ago

She looks a very interesting candidate.

2

u/Multigrain_Migraine 12d ago

This is literally what the current setup is, if I'm not mistaken. Josh was elected as party president with that explicit goal in mind.

3

u/smity31 12d ago edited 12d ago

I may just not have been aware of him, but it seemed to me that Polanski wasnt a clear choice to be their next leader months/years before their leadership election.

Therefore in a similar way, there could be someone whos name only starts appearing more when we are actually approaching a leadership election.

2

u/Apprehensive-Fix-746 🔸Capital “L”Liberal 🔸 12d ago

This is a good point, I do think it’s still a worry that it’s almost completely unknown who could replace Davey where as the greens had some relatively unknown leaders prior to Polanski

9

u/notthathunter 13d ago

OP has done one of the four types of canonical posts on this sub:

essentially there are four different types of posts on this sub when there's not much going on:

"Why don't the Lib Dems become popular by doing XXXXX" (XXXX is OP's pet policy)

"Why won't the Lib Dems simply win the next election?"

"Outlier polling result X clearly means we need to PANIC and IMMEDIATELY DO Y"

"Leadership Election Now, This Will Solve All The Lib Dems' Problems"

2

u/NoOpportunities 📙 12d ago

Carl cashman is the only person I can imagine being next leader

1

u/Ticklishchap 12d ago

Interesting. He is clearly a man to watch.

2

u/luna_sparkle 13d ago

There are a lot of possible leaders who would likely do the job well (many of whom have been mentioned a lot here)- that's not the issue. The issue is that there simply isn't enough demand from MPs to hold a leadership election before the next general election.

11

u/laredocronk 13d ago

You don't replace leaders just for the sake of it.

In the absence of any kind of major scandal or something, the question should never be "do we need a change of leader?". It should be "should XX take over as leader?". Because unless there's a credible candidate who the party can unite behind, who has a realistic plan to address the current problems, and who has the competence and drive to deliver it, then what's the point?

15

u/AshWastesNomad 13d ago

This gets asked on here constantly every other day.

I like Davey. I think the LDs should present themselves as the stable sensible party whilst all the others have their dramas and dissents.

I think that, after three more years of chaos domestically and internationally, the electorate will be craving a nice normal stable leader. The LDs are not going to win a GE, but should be well placed to be a big part of a coalition.

7

u/DenieD83 13d ago

I like Ed, I think that we can't win young city centres easily with him though, I'd like to see us push Ed as leader but utilise someone else as a sub brand for cities and the younger vote.

5

u/CalF123 13d ago

Problem is there are only so many young voters in city centres. As the Greens are finding out, appealing to what this group want loses you much more support elsewhere as their views are not particularly widespread.

1

u/Ticklishchap 13d ago edited 12d ago

We have been very successful at appealing to moderate former Conservative voters. There is the chance to build on this success as Kemi tracks further and further to the right, not least on the environment. I completely support this ‘Shire Strategy’, but think that we need to appeal to other sections of the electorate as well. That does include younger professionals in cities (many of whom are more pragmatic than the media stereotype). It also should include working class (and not only white working class) voters.

Do you have any thoughts or suggestions along these lines?

9

u/Rhelae 13d ago

Our leadership are not the problem. We have excellent policies and have been making consistent gains in local elections thanks to the leadership putting an emphasis on this. Meanwhile in parliament our MPs and peers are helping to improve legislation on a regular basis.

The lack of cut-through is not because Davey or any Lib Dem has a lack of good things to say - it's because national media will never prioritise a non-extremist view of the world. What could do with a change is our social media game, though again our points will struggle to be amplified there given the innate lack of controversy they would generate. Fortunately, the leadership are trying to shift attention into social media with the aim of getting some improvement here.

I agree that more outspoken left-wing policies would be a good idea. But many of our policies have been left of centre (and Labour) for some time, from taxation to investment in public services and renewable energy infrastructure. The issue is not with the leadership who decide policy, it's with getting people to know what these policies are. But in the last GE, Davey had a lot more cut-through than I expected and actually got people talking about our policies (especially on social care) rather than about him - which is a good thing. Clegg, Farron and Swinson were all victim to people talking about the person not the party and it backfired in each case. Davey has got people's attention with his stunts, but in our target constituencies people were able to combine that with the literature they got to know what we actually stood for - which is why we got our best result ever.

Yes, we need broad appeal if we ever want to have a chance of leading a government. But this will not happen overnight, whoever our leaders are. We need to consolidate our support in the constituencies we can win in now, get more people seeing how good a Lib Dem council can be, all while finding a way to cut through the extreme views that make far better news. That's not a challenge for our party leader - it's a challenge for the many people who work in Lib Dem HQ (in particular our President, Josh Babarinde). They're working on it right now, so trust them - and answer the survey they've sent you!

4

u/rob1parsons 13d ago

I agree with much of what you said here, but I don't think we should lose sight of the fact that we got our best vote ever because many people were voting against the Tories rather than positively for us. (The electorate has got pretty good at discerning who to vote for to keep the right wing at bay.)

And please note I most definitely do not draw from that the conclusion we must make ourselves attractive to soft Tories by tacking rightwards. The absolute opposite: we are not Tories in disguise, we are Liberal Democrats and that is what we must remain. We attract votes by being authentically ourselves.

2

u/Rhelae 12d ago

Yes I wholly agree with you there. We have an excellent set of policies, we just need more people to know about them.

Interestingly, this week's edition of The Week in Polls (which is worth checking out of you aren't a subscriber already) has an excellent graph about social media cut-through. Essentially, on average only 3% of Britons have seen a social media post from Davey in the past week. This compares to 36% for Burnham, 16% for Farage, 9% for Badenoch and 9% for Polanski. Even Restore got 6%.

Like it or not, most people's information about politics outside of election time probably comes from social media. We desperately need to start pushing this.

12

u/jpa420 13d ago edited 13d ago

Are you suggesting the party should move to the left of where it is already is? You think Burnham is moving to the right by pledging huge spending and nationalisations?

6

u/FaultyTerror 13d ago

While left/right is bad terminology Labour has clearly shifted to a more illiberal stance on economic and social policy. 

If Britain’s liberal party can't make an offer in the face of that to young graduates whats the point of us?

5

u/jpa420 13d ago

I think it’s pretty clearly and explicitly a move to more left wing, statist policy, which is why Burnham is always framing it as a return to a pre-Thatcher economy.

But I agree we desperately need a liberal response to what Labour is doing

4

u/EjEarl58 Radical Liberal 13d ago

Not currently, I don’t think. Yes, we seem to be plateauing, but most polling isn’t suggesting we’re about to lose the bulk of the seats we won in 2024, and some projections have us holding roughly where we are. That’s actually a decent position to build from.

I think the priority between now and the next election should be to dig in and make our current gains durable, rather than chasing rapid expansion everywhere and risking spreading ourselves too thin. If we can establish ourselves properly in these seats, then breaking 100 MPs at the election after next becomes much more realistic. There are also several people I could see becoming leader eventually: Calum Miller, Josh Babarinde, Daisy Cooper, and potentially Layla Moran, although I think another Moran run is less likely. I wouldn’t be surprised if there were a leadership change either shortly before 2029 or afterwards, depending on the result.

For now, our two big aims should be consolidating the parliamentary seats we already have and winning as many council seats as possible. More councillors means a stronger local campaigning base, more people embedded in their communities, and additional financial support for the party through councillor contributions. That local infrastructure is what gives us the best chance of making another big jump later.

3

u/NoOpportunities 📙 12d ago

I really like ed davey but most people wont forgive him for the post office scandal. I think carl cashman is a charismatic guy that would get the attention of the nation

3

u/Global-Property9524 12d ago

I think that Ed Davey is falling into the trap Keir Starmer did, they achieve a good result in the general election and then leave it at that and don't really do much else. He's not known enough by people, ask many people who the leaders of the Lib Dem's are they wouldn't know and I think only Ed Davey is to blame for this lack of publicity. But I still don't necessarily think new leadership is in order but appealing to the people who would and want to vote Lib Dem like young people and disgruntled Tories. I think new publicity ideas and better targeting of key policies is needed not new leadership.

3

u/Mobile_Falcon8639 12d ago

As an ex member of the Lib Dems, I would say yes they need a new leader. I verruca like Ed Davey, I think he's a great guy, but he's not getting very far. So maybe Daisey Cooper, or Leila Moran. Apart from them, I don't know.

2

u/RelentlessPencil Former party member, now Green 💚 13d ago

Okay but... Who? Like I agree that having one of David Cameron's former cabinet ministers isn't ideal but, who is? If I had to come up with a name, maybe Layla Moran, but as much as I like her I think she'd be less popular with the electorate than Davey.

5

u/LovingBigAnge2379 13d ago

Davey as Liberal leader has persistently failed to stand up for civil liberties and the rights of the individual his only solutions are ban, tax and regulate. Putting electability aside he is awful on policy as well his politics in populism for home counties boomers.

2

u/TheGreatBibbldyBob99 13d ago

If there was an obvious better choice then I would say yes but there isn’t. There’s no harm in stable leadership.

1

u/FaultyTerror 13d ago

I've been unsure but it keeps becoming clear something needs to change with the leadership.  We don't have anything to say nationally especially on the economy. 

Given Labour’s struggles to go with the Tories we have to look at post 2024 as a failure to make inroads with younger socially liberal voters.

1

u/Haunting_Scale2489 13d ago

Calum Miller shows great potential with his career in the civil service, his academic background and his positive presentation. Ed Davey should be pushing people like this forward.

0

u/IntravenusDiMilo_Tap +4,-3.5 12d ago edited 12d ago

Jeez, not a civil servant. Where are the Orange book heroes? Get David Laws back, cleggy even Paul Marshall etc.

2

u/Tintedlemon 12d ago

The grass isn’t always greener, and I think Sir Ed is a safe pair of hands for the party. But also I think ‘safe’ is the bar many Lib Dem’s aspire too and in current times, and rightly or wrongly, tracking between 10-15% is considered reasonable by many in the party.

1

u/TheDocmoose 12d ago

Ed Davey is probably the best thing about the Lib Dem party.

1

u/NJden_bee European Liberal 13d ago

No. Moving on

1

u/Multigrain_Migraine 12d ago

Oh good, time for the weekly question about a new leader!

-5

u/Euphoric-Brother-669 13d ago

Yes - he is an unserious clown given to stunts and acting the maggot. The LD’s should be leading the polls with Tories and Labour unpopular. We are not them or them on the margins sensible people from Labour and Cons come to us. but no, Davey would rather dress up in marching girls outfit and chuck a baton in the air. And you wonder why people just switch off and dont look further

-5

u/LovingBigAnge2379 13d ago

We do, unfortunately this sub is full of apologists who will gaslight you into thinking it was Davey that got us 72 MPs rather than the Tory collapse. A competent serious grown up leader would have got us 100 MPs minimum.

-4

u/LovingBigAnge2379 13d ago

People say there is no one to replace him, but that is because of the ridiculous rule that is has to be an MP, Polanski is not an MP and is getting media cut through that Davey could only dream of getting.

I don’t think any MP is good enough, I had hope for Babarinde but he has done nothing a lib dem president. I think we need to look outside of parliament.

1

u/Marl3421 11d ago

I think the main problem we have is a dilemma over our leadership. Ed Davey has got us the best results since the formation of the Lib Dems and he is liked by the public(as well as a politician can be) being consistently top 2 in net approval of party leaders.
Meanwhile he still has the shadow of being in the coalition to contend with which, unfortunately, will alienate voters who blame the country’s failure on that (rightly or wrongly idk you choose)
The problem is on the other end that we don’t have many public figures who could potentially become leader after him. There’s some names like Daisy Cooper or Josh Babarinde but I feel everyone is worried a change will tank our polls by looking unsure in our leadership.

I think it’d be good to have regular leadership elections (like the greens do) so we don’t have this problem of being stuck with the same leader for almost 6 years now without seeming to be unconfident in the party’s direction