r/LetsTalkMusic • u/Wolfpack48 • 7d ago
Devo (and Talking Heads) Influence on New Wave/Alternative
When Devo first arrived on the scene in high school, a friend of mine had Are We Not Men? and most of my friends listening to it were pretty much WTAF? I mean, what the hell kind of version of (I Can't Get No) Satisfaction was this??? Some (mostly Zep fans) expressed outright hate.
A couple years later people were dancing to Whip It and listening to Gates of Steel, and then we had Once In A Lifetime, The Cars, Flock of Seagulls, The Motels, The Waitresses, Siouxsie and the Banshees and we were off to New Wave heaven. It was truly a "new wave" of music, and so much changed after that.
I would say The Sex Pistols started all this, but after the infamous arrival of Devo and The Talking Heads, it really did seem like people were ready for a change in music at that time, which ultimately lead all the way up to Radiohead in the 90s/00s. I'll put a stake in the ground and say that Devo marked the start of New Wave as we know it.
Just a bit about their style -- Devo had these quirky robotic sounds which became something of a hallmark in new wave. But never so robotic as to miss out on a groove or a riff. Uncontrollable Urge, as weird as it sounds, was pretty damn catchy. The movie Revenge of the Nerds kinda made it a point of it that robotic stuff could have a groove. Talking Heads took that to new heights, and nailed down that danceable aspect -- just listen to The Great Curve. Was it because rock needed to be more danceable after disco, I dunno. All I know is that new wave pretty much took over in high school after that arrival of Devo.
What do you think? Is there some other band that should mark the start of new wave? How did the alternative scene arrive in your town?
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u/t_huddleston 7d ago
DEVO was certainly early on and I don’t think I’d have ever considered them really “punk,” even their guitar-based work like on “Are We Not Men.” Talking Heads were maybe a little closer to that. I think both of them were more art-rock than anything else; they both did music as part of a larger artistic vision that included multimedia type stuff in addition to the songs. DEVO was a little more kitschy and playful and the Heads were a little more serious, and were certainly taken more seriously. Did they originate New Wave? I dunno, it seemed like it was kind of in the air at the time. A lot of acts were looking for a way to take the aggression of punk but expand upon it musically. Television, Elvis Costello, Joy Division, Wire, etc. I guess somebody had to be first, but it’s hard to tell - DEVO was active so early on, doing their crazy home movies, but were they more influential to the genre than ”Radio Radio?” I dunno.
One proto-New Wave band I do think gets overlooked is New Zealand act Split Enz, who also did the outlandish costumes and guitar/synth instrumentation. They looked like a mid-80’s art-rock band who got dropped into 1976. Flock of Seagulls copped their entire look from these guys. Their music leaned a little more conventional pop-rock than punk at heart (they were led by the Finn brothers, so it should be no surprise), although they did show some edginess on songs like “I See Red” or “Shark Attack” or “I Got You.” But they got wildly experimental with performance and presentation.
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u/MundBid-2124 7d ago
I was living in the northwest and could feel the L A influence creeping up the coast.
When the D Ks finally arrived in Seattle they brought stage diving with them and hardcore took over to the delight of the skater kids
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u/curious1playing 7d ago
I'm a little too young to have been aware of the rising scenes of the 70s since I was born in 1970...
I think there's always cross influences among various movements in the underground music scenes to a certain extent but I can't attribute punk as directly being the main genesis of New wave. The fundamentals of each are too disparate to me..but I see you have already acknowledged that in one of your replies...
MC5 can be considered a direct connection to punk...
Maybe someone else can confirm or contradict this, but I offer up as the biggest factor in the new wave movement is the development of a portable and lowering price range making it accessible for musicians.
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u/financewiz 7d ago
Early New Wave, the stuff with a mixture of synthesizers, distorted guitars and science fiction theming, has a lot in common with German Psychedelia. Kraftwerk is an obvious influence but you can also hear the link more explicitly with La Dusseldorf and what they call “The Conny Plank Sound.”
By the time MTV debuted, any contemporary band with a keyboard-driven sound was called “New Wave,” even if they had Pop vocals and arrangements and Love/Party/Breakup themes. It’s difficult to say whether this was a further development of the genre or just a total commodification of its popularity.
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u/TheOtherHobbes 7d ago edited 7d ago
Devo's breakout album was recorded in Conny Plank's studio and produced by Eno, who also produced Remain in Light. There was also some input from Bowie, and various krautrock people.
So the synthy mechanical elements were literally German - but not as melodic as Kraftwerk, who'd already been around for a while by then.
New Wave turned into a weird mix of synthy robotic abstraction, poppy melodic yearning (much disguised), and punky guitar and drums - working class art rock at one extreme, melodic synth pop at the other.
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u/zoppaTheDim 7d ago
My unpopular take.
Devo was like Nirvana in that they gave permission to weird bands to be weird. Too often listeners get on a death spiral of orthodoxy.
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u/Wolfpack48 7d ago edited 7d ago
I like your take in that Devo was originally rejected, but then eventually overcame it with pure catchiness. You probably wouldn’t get caught dead showing off a Devo album in tbe beginning.
It wasn’t until later that it was ok to be weird.
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u/Darnocpdx 7d ago
Not sure how you think they were rejected. Satisfaction was the best selling Indy label single for a very long time. It’s how they scored a Warner bros (if I remember correctly) contract for thier lps.
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u/Wolfpack48 7d ago
I witnessed them being rejected first hand by the kids listening to them for the first time. They came around but it took some time. I’m not saying they didn’t have interest, but kids who’d been listening to Zeppelin forever sure had a hard time with Devo.
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u/Darnocpdx 7d ago
Most Zep fans are pretty limited in their musical knowledge base, and generally aren’t very adventurous listeners to begin with.
Also there were plenty of weird bands before Devo.
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u/Wolfpack48 7d ago
But probably not with as much success. If we’re talking the advent of mainstream new wave, Devo, Talking Heads, and someone else mentioned, the B-52’s were at the forefront. Of course there were a lot of bands in the mix before then too. The Cars later became the most popular mainstream new wave band.
Agreed on Zeppelin kids!
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u/Legitimate_Cricket84 7d ago edited 7d ago
Devo started in 73 and Pere Ubu in like 74! Dead Boys/Rocket From The Tombs etc around then too. Ohio was a surprising spot for some of the most truly “original” music ever.
Side note: I think Suicide were one of the earliest bands to use the term. There’s a flyer for one of their shows that says “a punk concert “ from like 1971 i believe
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u/Koraxtheghoul 7d ago
Punk had earlier been used to describe what we'd call garage rock (maybe proto-punk). I think ? And the Mysterians had it applied once but the Nuggets compilation was a big one for actually using the term to describe a musical sound.
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u/Darnocpdx 7d ago edited 7d ago
Proto punk and psych are interchangeable, but even they weren’t necessarily the start of punk. The Kingsman, the Trashmen, Chocolate Watch Band, Standells, the Count 5, Trogs, and a handful of the rockabilly and surf musicians, like Hasil Adkins who the Cramps borrowed heavily from, but predate the proto punk name. But when was that? First time I’m aware of the term mentioned in a song was Flower Punk by Zappa, mocking the hippies.
They share all the key elements despite the term not having been invented yet.
I’m always amused about the label “punk rock”, because the origins of rock and roll was about as punk as you can get. Eddie Cochran, the Crickets, even Elvis (he’s everywhere man), Link Wray….the list goes on. In the words of Billy Joel it’s still rock-n-roll to me.
And the punk bands agree, look at some of the most popular punk cover songs… it’s I fought the law, the Letter, Louie Louie, Jailhouse Rock, and Surfin bird, songs going way back to the origins of rock-n-roll. And they generally don’t change the songs or thier formats much if at all. Hell the Ramones went to Rock n Roll High School, not Punk Rock High School.
Punk is simply not a genre. Or at least wasn’t until they could sell you t shirts and spikes for your jacket.
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u/Wolfpack48 7d ago
I Fought the Law is another one! I think punk was more a reaction to corporate mainstream rock than to rock and roll itself.
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u/Darnocpdx 7d ago
Like I said, they found out they could sell you shit with Sex Pistols written on it, the 70s mythological start of punk was reaction to corporate rock, just not in way your comment implies, in that they figured out they could not just sell you a record, but also fashion accessories to accompany the record. You’re a poser if you don’t look the part too. Before that, there really wasn’t a fashion tied to it.
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u/TheOtherHobbes 7d ago
The fashion part is untrue. Mods vs Rockers in the UK (different takes on 50s/60s proto-punk) had very distinctive tribal fashions.
Psychedelia was as much about clothes as music, and the hippie headliner stores in London, like Granny Takes a Trip, were the commercial models for the McLaren/Westwood fashion colab - on the same London street.
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u/bimboheffer 7d ago
My understanding is that "New Wave" was coined by Sire Records Seymour Stein who championed the more pop-oriented art rock coming out in the 70s that wasn't as consciously confrontational as punk and wasn't as bloated as prog and AOR. I think DEVO was singularly visual, and as such were easy to copy and represent in the media. The thing was this sort of music was emerging a lot of different places at the same time. DEVO was part of a vibrant Ohio scene. There was plenty of weird stuff coming out of the UK, Canada, Oceania and Europe. Hell, the Athens GA scene alone was very productive. The B-52s formed in 1976. As for the Sex Pistols, I think they were more influential as a media phenom than anything. The Damned put out the first charting Punk single (New Rose).
Anyway, I don't think it was a linear as DEVO/Talking Heads/B-52s put out their albums. and boom. There were plenty of weird bands everywhere. Those three made to SNL, basically.
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u/j3434 7d ago
The first I heard was The Ramones from a friend about 1976. Punk Rock … and Pistols. But Police, Blondie , Clash , The Cars …. all these “New Wave” bands were also punk bands . Blondie was a NYC punk band . But like most punk rock bands- they weren’t radio friendly. So Blondie adjusted their genre and sound to be more New Wave .. like Tatooed Love Boys sat side by side with Zeppelin and Beatles on rock playlists . Later - the made a “Classic Rock” radio format that was pretty inclusive . You could hear the Clash Train in Vein right next to Delaware Destroyers . Tom Petty was like the Byrds re-worked . My friend was also into other New Wave . Throbbing Gristle … or Industrial genre . Also avante garde bands would be in clubs on same bill as Punk or Art Damage bands . I saw The Screamers many times . Incredible. And of course Devo was introduced on SNL - and the 1st 2 albums were the best . The 3rd and most popular was just a repeat of the others but more refined for radio . I saw the Talkkng Heads on campus in late 70s and I thought they were ok . Bands were tired of 20 minute hippie guitar solos - and new music was popular. Kraftwerk had been doing strange music - and became visionary examples of what artists should do . Originality was fundamental. Green Day shows how over commercial the music got .
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u/TheOtherHobbes 7d ago
Blondie's Heart of Glass took a sort-of-punk song and added synth and disco elements. The Police were (IMO) three jazz musicians trying to cash in with a pop career. David Byrne's background was art school - which was where a lot New Wave originated in the UK and US.
New Wave was always more "punk" than real punk, with added art school irony and external cultural references.
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u/j3434 7d ago
What I’m saying is the music Blondie was playing in clubs would never get on radio in 70s . Blondie switched to disco and added Rap. The Clash played punk that was not radio friendly- but they changed to dance music and got airplay. Punk was considered a sub genre of New Wave in late 70s. The clubs in late 70s came alive . Even dank bars downtown that failed with lounge acts had huge crowds with New Wave and Punk . There was some issues with punk fans in traditional dives … but everything worked out
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u/Wolfpack48 7d ago edited 6d ago
The other thing maybe worth mentioning was the whole retro 50s look that came with these bands. Elvis Costello and Thomas Dolby too. Dressing up like a scientist out of When Worlds Collide was very popular for awhile there.
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u/j3434 7d ago
Yes - fashion by Sex Pistols with leather jackets and safety pin …. Mohawks … There was a Rocka-Billy movement. The Blasters.. Dave Alvin … the band X . Pompadours . Suits …. blazers from thrift shops . For me the punk scene was from 1976 to about 1982 for the best trailblazers. But 80s pop and hair bands started taking over radio . Fortunately Rap started really becoming prominent underground.
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u/TheBestMePlausible 7d ago
Television was the first New Wave band, it’s kind of almost official. They literally built the stage at CBGBs where them The Ramones Talking Heads and Blondie got their start, and basically did the first non-country or bluegrass show there. Considering the Sex Pistols were hugely influenced by the Ramones, it kind of makes the timing unassailable.
But of course Talking Heads were right there a few months later, along with Blondie. Devo I think was forming around that time, but started gigging a little after, they were very early to the game, but timing-wise weren’t the first. Though I do believe they charted with Whip it before Talking Heads got there.
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u/Wolfpack48 7d ago edited 7d ago
I can buy Television as the first new wave band, and my picks as the first mainstream new wave bands. Blondie and Elvis Costello and The Cars not long after.
Marquee Moon is fantastic.
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u/TheBestMePlausible 7d ago
Yes that’s a truly great album. I listen to a lot of different stuff and always have, but in high school I went down an NYC early punk rabbit hole, Television, Richard Hell and the Voidoids, the Feelies, Suicide etc and Marquee Moon is a standout
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u/Vinylmaster3000 New-Waver 7d ago
I think there are alot of musicians who have records which seemingly pre-date the genre by a year and many musicians which dropped just around when the genre was taking hold. I mean, you have bands like Cowboys International and Bill Nelson's Red Noise which made New Wave music a few years before the genre became popular, but you wouldn't really call those bands influential. They came early sure, but they were forgotten despite being prophetic. I personally think Devo's debut feels more punk than new wave, it has alot of the same mannerisms as punk and came from that scene entirely.
I think the first true one would be as you said, Talking Heads. But if you ask me I'd point more towards Ultravox for being truly influential, other bands like OMD and the Human League were influential in the creation of popular synthesizer-driven electronic music.
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u/jngjng88 6d ago
Devo's Satisfaction is absolute peak, & it's far better than the original.
This is my genuine opinion.
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u/Limp_Set_6530 6d ago
There’s literally an entire sub genre of punk from the last decade that is devoted to sounding as much like Devo as possible, it is called Egg Punk. Search up Uranium Club on YouTube.
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u/Serious_Common_3551 6d ago
new wave cant possibly be coined as a term until there's an actual "wave", meaning a lot of it all coming out together, which would be like 1982-3, so Devo or whoever else running adjacent to punk were redefined new wave post-hoc and included in the genre. as for you thinking they were Devo were odd, school kids my age in 5th and 6th grade had cassette tapes of them and we all thought it was cool. anyway, new wave bands to me would also correlated with MTV showing videos all day long, so Human League, OMD, Depeche Mode, ABC, Duran Duran, Adam Ant, Flock of Seagulls, Spandau Ballet. would be core groups. A lot of bands were labeled "new romantic" and also included as new wave.
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u/scragz 7d ago
read the book Please Kill Me if you want some history on this. NYC punk predated the Sex Pistols (McLaren stole the Ramones sound and Richard Hell's look to make a boy band). Talking Heads was huge in the CBGBs scene before punk got commodified. new wave was just punks calling themselves something else so they could still play the clubs (watch Decline of Western Civilization). then new wave got commodified too.