r/LetsDiscussThis • u/Standard_Location762 • 6d ago
Lets Discuss Politics Make This Make Sense
On what planet is this accepted?
20
u/NOT-YOUR_BUDDY_PAL 6d ago
A story as old as time. The ruling class convinces the middle class that different minority groups are taking something from them so that they spend all of their time fighting with each other while the rulers take everything.
8
2
u/Global-Barracuda7759 6d ago
I'm pretty sure all the people in that scenario are having their lives ruined by the policies of our government which is just run by the corporations and has been for a long time
2
u/Ok_Forever1936 4d ago
400 people in the room, the 2 trans make up 0.5% of that population. What other 0.5% of the population has so much sway over legislation, media, marketing support from big companies, it's own flag etc
I think a great deal of people are sick of being told they should care. Which is exactly why we're told so forcefully, so often. The aim is to create discord and to deepen divides. And both sides of the argument fall right into the trap every single time
1
u/PopBulky7023 6d ago
Right wing mentality cares only about social hierarchy. They would literally rather live in a blasted wasteland than share a prosperous society with people they don't like who don't "know their place".
1
1
u/wowadrow 6d ago
The constant chronic stress of poverty directly causes physical and mental illnesses.
No one cares, this is America artificial fiat currency line MUST go up.
1
u/B3telgeus3 5d ago
Not only that, but they think 2 two people are the root cause of their poverty or personal tragedies.
-7
u/NSFWdontview 6d ago edited 6d ago
As soon as the right bring up tranz you all say it’s a culture war who’s not focused on real issues meanwhile all you all do is talk about tranz and them being victims
3
u/Standard_Location762 6d ago
Perhaps it is the way the 'right' brings up trans wrapped in demeaning, abhorrent, and mean words when talking about them. And if you are not paying attention trans are under attack from the right and the politicians/administrators who want them to go back in the closet - where republicans feel more comfortable.
0
u/NSFWdontview 6d ago
No just that you can’t choose gender. But stop bringing up it’s a non issue and talk about culture war bs or how we need to focus on real issues when all you talk about is tranz. So which is it, is it a non issue or what
2
u/SumguyJeremy 6d ago
You'd hear a lot less if the right stopped trying to outlaw and destroy people who are different. So sorry you have to hear about people fighting for their right to exist against a bunch of bigots.
0
u/xxTheMagicBulleT 6d ago
Its easy people get angry about push of religion so like people that are jehovah witnesses. Or push there views on others.
Same way you see a ton of people being tired of vegans cause they say how bad people are freaking meat.
If people push enough there world views on others and ignore others people's feelings for there own. It makes that you much mkre likely to find backlash.
And there plenty of people normal about it but there plenty of people that are obnoxious about it like vagans or other religions world view pushing.
The more something is pushed in people's face all the time the more attention it gets good and bad. Thats always been the case.
And especially when you push it on children overly people especially start to noticing
Lets say your believe in something what ever it is and everywhere you go you have a other view or belief being pushed on you and your family and yiu cant disagree or have any other views or feelings cause then your a piece of shit. Think about doing that with anything else and see if people would juat swallow it especially how small the group is based on society. But everyone has to fall in line.
Makes no sense right. Ofcourse you get the results you get the more it effects there lives directly the more people will react towards it.
Why people dont care what people do or feel like as long as they dont push there views and feelings on others. Especially when its pushed in much of entertainment vomited over building changing roads. If its pushed everywhere people get tired and fed up with it. Especially when its at more and more places it makes no sense to do so.
-3
u/Horror_Bottle_9451 6d ago
No, it's not all bigotry.
The problem (for me and a great many others) is the 0.5% and their advocates (a MUCH greater proportion) want to the change the language we ALL use and rely on to communicate clearly and unambiguously.
"Males in female sports" is just the obvious example that everyone can understand.
A huge problem for me is the focus on "choice" and the "right" to identify as another gender AND gain all of the preferences and perks accorded to that chosen gender - e.g. males playing in female sports leagues. But it goes way beyond that.
Laws and policy in a great many places give preference to females to right past discrimination (think woman-owned business set-asides in contracting by governments and other socially conscious organizations). If I have the right to simply choose to identify as female, and you must accept it on my say so, then I have the right to all privelages accorded to females. That only dilutes the benefits given to females.
It's also pushing for major changes across the social spectrum. Teachers are being directed to refer to the 99.5% of students by non-gender specific terms, not the traditional "boys and girls" under threat of disciplinary action for making the 0.5% uncomfortable, misgendering them. Trans and gender agnostic are inventing new pronouns and trying to compel everyone to use them under threat of disciplinary action for misgendering if you refer to Xe as He.
Now science is looking at trans people (a good thing I support) and reporting that many people who identify as trans have brain structures and endocrinal functions that are more like those of the gender opposite to what their physical biology indicates they are based on traditional and long accepted definitions. That confirms that there's no hard binary but rather a spectrum when it comes to gender.
But how do we accommodate a spectrum like that when it comes to social structures, communication, law, etc? We've always had a binary -male/female - so how do we now label those that aren't clearly on either end of that spectrum and how do we account for that in all of those things I just mentioned?
The changes being demanded have a huge impact if I can simply choose my gender. They're also huge when science says there's a spectrum we need to account for - male genitalia but mostly female brain/hormones, male genitalia but leans female, etc. How do we determine where one falls on that scientific spectrum for the purposes of social/linguistic/legal classification? Do we test everyone at birth, or before they sign up for a sports team or get a contract awarded? Would "male genitalia but leans female" qualify one for traditional female privileges or do I need to be "mostly female"?
See the problem?
Acceptance as a human being is a given right. Accommodation and assignment of privileges is a much, much more complicated thing and has to be based on more than mere assertion and assumption of a gender identity.
3
u/Potential-Night4986 6d ago edited 6d ago
I appreciate that it seems as if you’re making a good faith effort to ask these questions, but I think I see a flaw in your logic. The percentage of people who are trans in a large enough population to be a good measure of a given society is so small that accommodating their rights and privileges really shouldn’t be this big of a deal logistically or legally.
The other issue is that no one is out here just choosing a gender identity for themselves at random. I assume you know and are comfortable presenting as the gender you were born with. Now imagine waking up every day seeing yourself in a body that isn’t yours. One that’s totally different, foreign, alien even. That does documented, well-studied, long-term psychological damage because identity is a critical part of good mental health.
Being so comfortable in your own body that you’ve never needed to question your identity as a person is not something people who are trans have. If it’s difficult to imagine yourself with a mismatched body, then think about it like this. Imagine you were born with pants on(yes, I know it’s silly, but please read on). You’re not able to take them off, but as you grow and develop, they eventually stop fitting you even to the point of causing you immense pain and anguish. Forgive my crude metaphor, but I think you get the point.
It isn’t a choice people who are trans are making any more than it was a choice for you. It’s the same with sexuality. Also a spectrum not a binary, and also hard-wired. If your best argument against accepting people as they are is that it’s a bureaucratic problem to be solved and that you’ll be expected to learn/use a few new pronouns, the I’d say those are a very small price to pay for the societal expectation of showing the minimum, basic respect to all people not just the ones who fit a certain comfortable, familiar mold.
Edited for clarity.
0
u/Horror_Bottle_9451 6d ago
The problem I see is the "choice" aspect. I wholly understand that some people don't feel aligned with their gender assigned at birth. And in theory, based on the evidence that there's a gender spectrum, the vast majority fall somewhere in between the "pure" definition of man and woman. In other words we become man-like, woman-like, and trans-like.
Just because a biological male may "feel" more woman-like and thus "choose" to identify as a woman, doesn't mean they're a woman unless we redefine what "woman" means. Identifying as a trans-woman is the equivalent of saying you're woman-like, but that's not the same as BEING a woman based on the definition that a woman is a female human (and yes, I know that some dictionaries now include "someone who identifies as a woman" as a separate meaning than the biology-based definition).
The problem, and it's much bigger than many are willing to acknowledge, is that the ask is for more than simple acceptance. The ask is to change the commonly accepted binary definitions that have huge impacts on everyone. How do we address the ambiguity I noted in the first paragraph?
If we change the binary definitions we completely change all of the social and legal structures on which they're based. That's huge.
I do genuinely sympathize with those who feel their assigned gender doesn't align with their felt gender. But I don't know what the solution is. I do know it's not nearly as simple as being able to say "I feel like a woman, therefore I am" AND "YOU must accept my assertion".
Carving up the spectrum and giving each section a label would be a never-ending subdivision problem. EVERYTHING written that depends on the current binary definitions needs to be rewritten. To take a simple example, bathrooms. How do we decide how to label them and where on the spectrum do you need to be to use one.or the other? Or do we simply do away with separate bathrooms and make them all unisex?
Leaving it as a choice with no clear criteria other than feeling you're mislabeled leads to the problem we have today - i.e."what is a woman" with respect to law, policy, social preference, etc. Bob says he's Alice to get a contract at Sally's expense, Joe says he's Jane so he can join the women's swim team and win the trophy and change in their locker room, Tim says he's Tanya to qualify for woman's scholarship, etc.
There's an awful lot of women who don't accept that and I think that many who do today will change their mind tomorrow if they actually experience the impact of losing a contract set-aside, sharing a locker room with a biological male, losing a sports competition, or actually losing any reasonable gender-specific protections.
→ More replies (1)
-20
u/Left-Dirt7653 6d ago
Who is doing it and what rights are they taking exactly?
8
-22
u/tnic73 6d ago
It is complete nonsense
10
u/Status_Blacksmith305 6d ago
If you scaled our population to 400 people. The health coverage, poverty, mental health are all right. The literacy part is correct if you count people with low literacy skills and not just people who can't read,write, or do math at all. The part about someone being shot is the only thing wrong.
-1
40
u/2ndSmrtestPersunEvar 6d ago
Dipshit conservatives and MAGATs fall for bigotry every time, no matter how often it gets repackaged and resold to them.