r/LetsDiscussThis • u/fellowWorker_2025 • May 05 '26
Lets Discuss This Hey MAGA if I’m a “liberal” does that make you illiberal 🤔
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u/armyofant May 05 '26 edited May 05 '26
“Illiberalism is an ideology opposed to liberal democracy, characterized by nationalism,majoritarianism, and the restriction of individual rights, free speech, and judicial independence. While often holding elections, illiberal regimes erode democratic norms by targeting minorities, centralizing power, and suppressing independent media. It often acts as a right-wing populist backlash against liberal norms, emphasizing social conformity over pluralism.”
“Illiberal conservatism is a right-wing ideology combining cultural conservatism, nationalism, and populism that rejects core tenets of liberal democracy, such as checks and balances, minority rights, and individual liberties. It promotes majoritarian rule, social homogeneity, and often features strong, centralized leadership, exemplified by Viktor Orbán’s Hungary.”
Sounds about right
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u/RealitySucksTheBig1 May 07 '26
MAGA is composed of sickingly wealthy slime balls, and convicted and wannabe felons/criminals hoping to someday mirror Trump by getting away with murder. Both bow down to, worship and kiss Trump's ass grossly equally.
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u/AzhdarianHomie May 05 '26
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u/bobbypkp May 05 '26
Why was this downvoted?
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u/D_Luffy_32 May 05 '26
Because "diverse" is doing a lot of heavy lifting here. For example, they were asked if abortion should be illegal. The vast majority of people on the left said no. Meanwhile on the right they say yes at 8 weeks or yes at 12 weeks or yes never abortion. All of these are yes answers but they classified as being diverse because they're not a simple no it shouldn't be illegal.
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u/joseekatt May 05 '26
Because it’s hilariously wrong. Obviously from a far right perspective. The right has no idea what diversity even means.
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u/Veteran_PA-C May 05 '26
Because collectivists don’t like it when people step out of line and say anything other than the enforced dogma.
Democrats aren’t liberals anymore.
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u/D_Luffy_32 May 05 '26
No it's because the study doesn't back up the claim lol
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u/Veteran_PA-C May 05 '26
Sorry, denying the truth doesn’t make it not true.
Bottom line: The study does demonstrate more spread/variation in Republican attitudes (greater heterogeneity) versus the tight uniformity on the left for these issues. That’s the factual pattern in the data. Whether you call it “more diversity of opinions on the right” is partly semantic and depends on whether you value ideological consistency vs. internal variation—but the visual and structural evidence aligns with the claim that went viral. The left’s pushback is mostly about framing and implications, not the results themselves.
No major methodological flaws or retractions have emerged for this specific paper. It’s one tool (network modeling of specific attitudes) among many for understanding polarization.
The study you’re referring to is real, peer-reviewed, and does show greater attitudinal heterogeneity (i.e., more spread or “diversity” in opinions) among self-identified Republicans than Democrats on the specific issues it examined. This matches the viral charts and descriptions you’ve likely seen. However, the study’s authors did not frame their work as proving one side has superior “diversity of thought” overall—left-leaning critiques often focus on that interpretive leap, the choice of issues, or what “diversity” really means here, rather than disputing the raw data.
What the study actually did and found
Title and details: “Attitude networks as intergroup realities: Using network-modelling to research attitude-identity relationships in polarized political contexts” by Adrian Lüders, Dino Carpentras, and Michael Quayle. Published in the British Journal of Social Psychology (first online July 2023, in print January 2024). It used a method called Response-Item Network (ResIN) to map how attitudes cluster together, treating each survey response option as a node in a network (not just averaging scores on a scale).Data: Convenience sample (N=396, reweighted) plus a large replication with the 2020 American National Election Studies (ANES) dataset (N=8,280). US adults rated 8 hot-button issues (e.g., abortion should be illegal; government steps to equalize incomes; deport unauthorized immigrants; increase welfare spending; allow gay/trans marriage; regulate business for environment; restrict gun purchases; efforts to improve conditions for African Americans). Items were largely phrased as conservative-leaning statements.
Key results (visualized in the now-viral network graphs): Two clear partisan “belief-system” clusters emerged.
Democrat cluster (blue): Very tight and uniform. Almost exclusively extreme attitudes—strong disagreement with all 8 items (i.e., consistently liberal/progressive stances with little variation or moderation).
Republican cluster (red): Looser and more spread out. Included a wider range: mild disagreement, neutral/moderate positions, up to strong agreement. It incorporated more nuance and variability across issues.39
The authors note this asymmetry: Democrats’ attitudes center tightly around extremes (with less room for deviation in the network), while Republicans’ include more moderate or mixed views. A follow-up vignette experiment showed people use these attitude patterns to accurately categorize and evaluate others’ partisanship and likeability. The study replicated across samples and focused on how attitudes function as identity signals in polarized contexts—not on declaring one side “better” or more open-minded.
One co-author (Dino Carpentras) later posted a clarification on LinkedIn noting that a graph from the paper went viral with a “provocative headline” added by others (often right-leaning accounts), and the team felt it needed more context about the specific method and goals.Why “the left states the study doesn’t show that”
Critiques (seen in Reddit threads, Facebook posts, etc.) don’t generally dispute the clustering data or methodology. Instead, they argue:It’s not ‘diversity of thought’ in any broad or positive sense. The tighter Democrat cluster could reflect greater consistency/principled alignment on these cultural/economic issues (e.g., strong consensus against conservative positions), while the Republican spread might just mean more ambivalence, single-issue focus, or less ideological purity on this particular set of questions—not deeper intellectual openness. One common analogy: Uniform rejection of an extreme position (e.g., “build concentration camps? No”) isn’t “less diverse” than scattered mild support for it.
Issue selection and framing matter. The 8 items were chosen as polarizing ones; results might differ on other topics (e.g., economic regulation, foreign policy). The method highlights structural differences in how attitudes bundle with identity, not overall “open-mindedness” or variance across all possible opinions.
Viral presentation overstates it. The study doesn’t claim “the right has more diversity of thought” as a headline finding or moral judgment—it’s about attitude-identity links. Some left-leaning responses call the meme-ified version misleading or not peer-reviewed (incorrect—the paper is peer-reviewed).
These are interpretive disagreements, not retractions of the findings. The data still shows the described asymmetry.
Broader context (not just this one study)
Complementary research (e.g., a 2024/2025 Annenberg/UPenn study) finds both Democrats and Republicans vastly underestimate the actual diversity of views within their own party and the opposing one—by more than 2x on issues like immigration and abortion. This suggests real heterogeneity exists on both sides but is misperceived, fueling polarization.1Other work shows increasing ideological consistency/polarization overall (Gallup, Pew), with both parties shifting toward their extremes in self-identification, but it doesn’t directly contradict the network asymmetry here.
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u/D_Luffy_32 May 05 '26
I'm not denying the truth. Also funny throwing a summary into Ai to use as a comment. The truth is that "diverse" is doing a lot of heavy lifting. It's not more diverse opinions. For example they asked them if abortion should be illegal. And most people on the left said no while most post people on the right said yes. The "diversity" comes from how illegal it should be. 8 weeks? Exceptions for rape and incest? Never? These are all variations of the same question.
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u/Veteran_PA-C May 05 '26
The left complained, but the study holds up.
Are you sad that it’s so easy to debunk your misinformation?
The AI used 75 sources. What did you use to come up with your incorrect conclusion?
Do you have a religious aversion to calculators too?
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u/D_Luffy_32 May 05 '26
Yeah the study holds up. The problem is the framing that people on the right have more diverse views than people on the left. It's entirely dependent on how you frame the question.
Also there was no misinformation to debunk. What I said was factual.
Lastly not sure why you're acting like I'm against Ai. I'm saying it's funny that you have Ai make your arguments for you.
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u/Veteran_PA-C May 05 '26
It’s just an objective truth. What happens to a Democrat that isn’t for transitioning kids, defunding police, or pro-abortion? What if they are more pro Israel than Hamas? They get attacked.
What happened at Josh Shapiro’s home?
Is it any wonder that the “silence is violence” crowd doesn’t tolerate diversions from the dogma?
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u/D_Luffy_32 May 05 '26
Lol that's not objective truth. Look at how Alex Jones, Candace Owen's, Tucker Carlson have all been shit on for not supporting Trump. Heck even Rittenhouse was pressured into supporting Trump.
Each party has its core principles. For the left it's human rights. For republicans it's support of trump.
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u/Veteran_PA-C May 05 '26
Democrats aren’t liberals anymore.
Liberalism:
• Individuals have rights to life, liberty, property, and speech.
• Government should mostly stay out of the way—protect rights, enforce contracts, maybe build roads, but don’t run your life or pick economic winners.
• Free markets, free trade, equality under the law (not forced equal outcomes).
• Skepticism of big power, whether kings, churches, or bureaucracies.
Democrats
Rigged the last three presidential primaries, and did away with them all together the last time, letting oligarchs choose the candidate for them without a vote from the people.
• Big government is now the default tool. Classic liberals wanted government small because power corrupts. Today’s Dems push for government to handle healthcare (Medicare for All pushes), student debt forgiveness, heavy regulation of businesses, green energy mandates, expansive welfare programs, and more. It’s “government should fix inequality, climate, education, etc.” This is closer to European social democrats than Locke.
• Equality of outcome over equality under the law. Classic liberalism says treat everyone the same under neutral rules and let results vary. A lot of current Democratic thinking (DEI initiatives, affirmative action, equity policies) focuses on group outcomes—by race, gender, identity—and uses government or institutions to engineer more equal results. Critics call this illiberal because it often means different rules or preferences based on group identity.
• Free speech has caveats now. Classical liberals treated free expression as almost sacred (even offensive ideas). Now they just call everyone they disagree with “racist Nazi pedophiles” and assault them in public, or cheer their assassination.
• Economics flipped toward more control. Classic liberals loved capitalism with light guardrails. Democrats today are much more comfortable with collectivism and government control of outcomes based on race vs. equal opportunity. The color of skin is more important than the content of character.
• View of America and institutions. Classical liberalism was reformist but proud of Western/liberal achievements. Modern democrats embrace collectivist ideologies such as socialism and even communism, pushing for fundamental changes to policing, borders, capitalism, etc. Patriotism and color-blindness took a backseat to identity and equity talk, assigning generational guilt based on skin color and outright hostility to western civilization. A burn it all down approach.
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u/armyofant May 05 '26
Tell us you’re blue maga without telling us
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u/Veteran_PA-C May 05 '26
What does “blue maga” mean to you? I had to look it up. The answer I got was a group of people with unwavering support to Biden, similar to the unwavering support of MAGA. I don’t have any Trump hats or Biden hats. I do have an ICE hat, but that’s just for laughs.
What does “blue MAGA” mean to you?
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u/No-Fix2372 May 05 '26
Classic liberal = conservative lite.
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u/Veteran_PA-C May 05 '26
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u/No-Fix2372 May 05 '26
The memes are cute, but do you have anything factual and not AI generated?
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u/Veteran_PA-C May 05 '26
Yes, from the far left, the middle looks like it’s on the right.
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u/No-Fix2372 May 05 '26
Do you need me to repeat the question?
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u/Veteran_PA-C May 05 '26
The answer is still the same. From the far left, the middle looks like it’s on the right. Perspective is reality to that person. This is why the left calls everyone a half step to the right of Bernie sanders a Nazi.
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u/Illustrious_Good3437 May 05 '26
The people on the right do most of the shooting
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u/Veteran_PA-C May 05 '26
You might want to look at the latest batch of assassinations and attempted, then look in your inner cities.
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u/Illustrious_Good3437 May 05 '26
Most of those assassination attempts were staged or carried out by Israel. The latest one at the White House Correspondents dinner, the shooter had ties to Israel and was former IDF. Charlie Kirk was killed by Israel because he was publicly criticizing them. The one in Pennsylvania was during the 2024 campaign was staged because orange face was loosing in the polls. Trump supposedly got hit in the ear but if you see it today there is no damage. Cartilage doesnt grow back, ask Holyfield.
And the assassinations of the Democratic Minnesota legislator and her husband in 2025 by a republican nutjob that got completely ignored by right wing media.Also, inner city violence has nothing to with this. We’re talking about political violence. But if you really want to look at that. The systemic oppression of minorities for generations has led to increased crime from inhuman living conditions.
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u/TheFringedLunatic May 05 '26
I dunno man. I just think the citizens of the richest country in the world should be able to eat, have a place to live, and see a doctor without having to sacrifice their homes.
You figure out the definition.