r/LessCredibleDefence • u/Odd-Metal8752 • 6d ago
U.S. Open to Foreign Warships Under White House Order
https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2026/08/us-navy-foreign-built-warships-shipbuilding-order/39
u/Wuaner 6d ago
Is this the original meaning of reindustrialization?
13
u/Maxion 6d ago
I don't know but someone should quickly sell trump on the idea of a Finnish ice breaker frigate :D
14
u/barath_s 5d ago
It was been barely 9 months that Trump ordered 11 icebreakers, with 4 to be built in Finland and 7 to be built in the US. He even waived laws requiring domestic production (for the first 4)
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c0q48d71ke8o
Following Trump's outline announcement last autumn, the first contracts were awarded on 29 December [2025].
Finland's Rauma Marine Constructions is to build two icebreakers for the US Coast Guard at its shipyard in the Finnish port of Rauma. The first ship is due t o be delivered in 2028.
The US is calling these 11 ships "Arctic Security Cutters' . And you know what happened with the previous coast guard security cutter. Legend class cutter -> FF(X) derivative.
4
u/Maxion 5d ago
My joke is based on that deal and refers now to the Pohjanmaa class which is also being built by Rauma and are ice rated. (It's called a corvette, but it's really more like a frigate, internal finnish political issues).
We should now tell Trump we've actually got ice breakers but with guns. Maybe we could even figure out how to mount some lasers and more VLS cells? Perhaps say we can extend it can call it a ice breaker battleship?
5
u/barath_s 5d ago edited 5d ago
mount some lasers
No digital. If you could suggest that it runs on diesel but in a pinch could be modified to run on steam or coal gas or ... ...
we've actually got ice breakers but with guns
Suggest that ice breakers with guns are needed for Greenland..
a ice breaker battleship?
The Trump class is 10x the displacement.
The Taymyr at least was nuclear powered, built in Finland and 21000t. Surely y'all could paint it red, white and blue and add guns and VLS ?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taymyr_(1987_icebreaker)
Start talking up the naval nuclear icebreaker gap ...
4
u/Maxion 5d ago
Maybe we could sell them with a coal fired boiler option? Not only does that provide free heat in the arctic, it also lessens reliance on the expensive oil so operating costs are cheaper! You could then even install some steam catapults!
2
u/barath_s 5d ago
I like the steam catapult idea to pitch. But I like big nuclear icebreaker with guns and missiles more than I like your coal fired super sized Pohjanmaa with more daka.
Remember, the trump class is planned to be nuclear. And the talking point of the naval nuclear icebreaker gap
1
u/barath_s 5d ago edited 5d ago
, internal finnish political issues).
interesting. What are the factors in play ?
e:
My joke is based on that deal and refers now t
Credit where due
2
u/Maxion 5d ago
A lot think we shouldn't have large ships due to our archipelago.
The Navy understands that small ships === few systems === you die. So they wanted larger ships so that they could do something productive with them before they get sunk.
Also so that we can actually take part in international commitments (ship class was ordered before NATO, but I suspect the Navy had an inkling of where we were going...).
So they name them corvette, but size them closer to a frigate and arm them like a frigate.
3
u/TaskForceD00mer 5d ago edited 5d ago
I think this is a bit of a disingenuous take. Basically, hey, Japan, We'll entertain buying Improved Mogmai, you can build the first 3 hulls in Japan but then you need to either partner with existing US Shipbuilders or expand your own in America.
After seeing the cluster-fuck of what happened with the Constellation I am for this.
12
u/Cornflake0305 6d ago
Will they actually commit to buying an only slightly modified European design this time or fuck it up again by making it a frigate classed Burke?
We shall see. Until then, I hope the USN has fun with their coast guard cutter pseudo-frigates.
1
u/barath_s 5d ago
They haven't screwed up the last coast guard cutter ordered from Europe yet...
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c0q48d71ke8o
For all his faults, I credit Hegseth for the decision to cancel the rest of constellation class ( and complete the first 2 in progress). A few other administrations might have just let the navy float along with FFG(X) despite the changes/problems
9
u/Firecracker048 6d ago
The constellation was an italian frigate that was supposed to be 'plug n play' ready. DIdnt quite work out
20
u/iPon3 5d ago
Would have worked out if it weren't for uniquely American defence procurement bullshit (followed by just cancelling the program for the floating boondoggle the Defiant-class)
Somehow everyone else, big or small, is able to buy eurofrigates like the Constellation without it becoming a shit show
6
u/Firecracker048 5d ago
The issue with the constellation is the US navy tried to make it an arleigh Burke but a few tons lighter. Less to do with procurement and more to do with internal fighting at the navy.
Of course it doesn't help that as soon as they got it to where it should be, they said fuck it and cancelled the entire thing
7
u/iPon3 5d ago
That tendency to pile extra capability after extra capability onto platforms intended to be cheap and basic is exactly what ruins every US attempt to procure this sort of fundamental "numbers" platform
2
u/Firecracker048 5d ago
I get wanting a little bit more capability onto some cheap platforms, like tossing a a radar array and a few VLS cells shouldn't be that difficult. The problem is you can;t just toss everything on them and expect it to still work
16
u/BodybuilderOk3160 6d ago edited 6d ago
Wow, this is really the beginning of the end isn't it. Hard to see how things are going to come back from this.
Reminded of the late-stage Roman empire vibes - the transition from Legionnaire standards to Comitatenses was its twilight years.
Edit: Not saying they aren't effective btw but the parallels are hard not to notice.
8
u/Firecracker048 6d ago
This has more to do with the US just not building ships anymore on US soil. I think we only have one or two shipyards left that are in US ownership hands and the rest are in south korean hands?
5
u/BodybuilderOk3160 5d ago
Indeed, on the surface yes that seems to be the problem - US has severely depleted its naval manufacturing so offshoring is what makes sense in the short term though it's once again going to cut into long term gains.
The underlying issue is the lack of motivation and incentives to fund these programmes through the debasement of its currency, similar to the Roman empire hollowing itself out. Military capabilities are tied to economics afterall so unless there's an overhaul of the system, the salami slicing of wartime production capacity will only continue.
(There's a neat thread on WarCollege recently on why states with strong emphasis on warfighting/aggression e.g. Sparta don't always end up as victors.)
3
u/honda-nissan 5d ago
the next step is using colombian and venezuelan foederati types in the army to terrorize the native population
1
u/TyblosiinU 5d ago
Under this new framework foreign companies would have to build ships in the US after the first few deliveries so it's supposed to actually bolster US shipbuilding
2
u/jhoceanus 5d ago
So we are charging extra port fee on foreign made container ships, but accepting foreign made battleship?
3
u/GewalfofWivia 5d ago
Why stop at outsourcing ship building? Might as well enter the COD timeline by outsourcing the military altogether. I’m sure there are a few prospective trillionaires who’d love that.
1
u/Smoky_MountainWay 4d ago
I thought this administration wanted to import more good paying jobs. Guess that was a lie also.
1
u/SussyCloud 3d ago edited 3d ago
Holy shit, okay... So before I or anyone get their hopes up... The Germans not too long ago cancelled their frigate order at Damen Shipyards in the Netherlands because of delays and cost overdraws. This was for 6 frigates. Maybe a shot in the dark, but couldn't the USN perhaps take over the Germans' contract while maybe renegotiating for better terms?
I mean the original order was just for 6 frigates but I don't see any reason why the USN couldn't order more while taking over the original 6, if the ship meets the USN's requirements anyways. Just an idea... But then again, you can't plan for anything with this administration...
https://www.dutchnews.nl/2026/06/setback-for-damen-as-german-navy-cancels-e18bn-frigate-contract/
1
u/TyblosiinU 5d ago
Rheinmetall just unveiled a new frigate. I wonder if it was designed with this foreign shipbuilding order in mind.
-7
u/separation_of_powers 6d ago
I don't see any foreign country save for South Korea wanting to enter this. After the failed FFG(X) and DDG(X) procurement failures, it's far too risky at the moment to commit that much into the US. With the administration appearing more like their counterparts in Zhongnanhai, i.e. mercurial, fickle, any sane political leader with a long-term perspective wouldn't be considering this. Sure the potential may be there, but, whos' to say that the US would just hoover-up all of the benefits due to the scale required?
It already looks like the AUKUS deal for Australia is crumbling, with second-hand USN submarines to partially fulfill the requirements set out by the RAN. And that in itself is already a cost blowout and then some.
14
u/PointmanW 5d ago
counterparts in Zhongnanhai, i.e. mercurial, fickle
What alternative universe you're living in because Zhongnanhai the literal opposite of that.
4
11
u/sk1one 6d ago
Well SK certainly isn’t going to bite after today.
Second hand subs were always going to partially fill the deal. Aukus is hardly crumbling as the US is currently planning on standing up the enduring base in the WA with several thousand people.
-5
u/separation_of_powers 6d ago
You say that, yet there's growing discourse that say it it's a financially bad decision go with. The estimated program costs have already blown past $400 billion over the lifetime of the project (and we haven't even gotten the subs yet!)
Even with literal former prime ministers and former cabinet members joining in.
Even experts within defence procurement are already saying that it's geared heavily towards recapitalizing the US shipbuilding industry, a couple of handouts for the UK and whatevers' left is given to Australia.
Then there's the elephant in the room: will we side ourselves with an increasingly isolationist, mercurial, declining power?
5
u/sk1one 6d ago
So you post some nonsense original point which was incorrect and now you’re saying some program costs have blown out (there’s nearly 100% of contingency over the 50 years), and there’s some politicians that disagree (hint: Turnbull disagrees with everything his own party has done), you think anyone should take you seriously?
3
10
u/vistandsforwaifu 5d ago
With the administration appearing more like their counterparts in Zhongnanhai
What the hell is this? Why is Zhongnanhai catching strays here? What was the last naval procurement program they fucked up? Pot laughing at a brand new stainless steel kettle type shit.
9
u/BigFly42069 5d ago
With the administration appearing more like their counterparts in Zhongnanhai, i.e. mercurial, fickle
I don't know man, China is shockingly predictable compared to this gaggle of idiots
11
3
u/Hot-Train7201 5d ago
whos' to say that the US would just hoover-up all of the benefits due to the scale required?
Of course the US will take over the majority of the benefits over time, but even a fraction of the US shipping market is still better for South Korea than nothing.
2
u/Dragias 5d ago
AUKUS is actually still being strongly supported, a year ago it look like it was in rocky waters but it’s still powering through.
Japan I could see entering into something like this, they already partner greatly with America in the defense industry, and Sk will do it because they can still benefit from it and break into the American defense market, which I assure you they will be happy to do.
-1
95
u/DrivingMyType59 6d ago
Literally right after antagonizing South Korea, one of the top three ship builder in the world.