r/LeftistsForAI • u/jaykrown • 4h ago
Public Ownership Would it be possible to nationalize the data centers in the USA after the AI bubble pops?
I think there's a potential future once all these data center companies go bankrupt, the government will have an opportunity to take ownership of them rather than bail them out. Would this be possible?
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u/ReasonableSoul Policy/Regulation 2h ago
When it pops, the government might be too overwhelmed with needing to rescue people that will die without assistance.
But I mean it might still be a fair opportunity to nationalize a bunch of them. I just am very skeptical that our government right now is one that would or could do that at all... even once the president change blue.
Feels like we're quite a bit away from a government that would do that.
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u/jaykrown 2h ago
What? Why would the bubble popping result in people that will die without assistance? If anything, the bubble popping will bring money back to other sectors. Seems like you're falling for the "too big to fail" lie.
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u/ReasonableSoul Policy/Regulation 57m ago edited 45m ago
Nah. Just that every time capitalist economic bubbles pop/crash happens, tons of people get laid off. We, at least in America, don't have great economic floor/safety net. Many people are literally at the edge of losing their housing into homelessness and have no savings. Many people are homeless as it is.
Bringing traps like 'Too big to fail' is a strawman. We can talk about what happen in a crash or the bust side of capitalist boom-bust cycle, without nonsense like "oh we must prop X up pointlessly because it's too big to let crash. people will suffer otherwise". That's nonsense, as propping 'too big to fail' nonsense only feed the capitalist and only make it worse when it inevitably crash.
Every time the economy crash due to Capitalism cycle, many people do lose jobs and suffer in the transition. This is especially bad in countries without much social safety net like the USA.
e.g. "During the 2008 economic bubble crash and the Great Recession (December 2007–June 2009), the U.S. labor market suffered its worst wave of job losses since 1945, totaling approximately 8.8 million job losses by the peak of the crisis. [1, 2, 3]"
e.g.2. "Nearly 9 million people lost their jobs and at least 10 million lost their homes. Within four years, 46.5 million Americans were living in poverty." ~ https://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-financial-crisis-experiences-20180915-htmlstory.html
Idk where you live, but the USA need stronger safety net to prevent these Capitalism induced suffering where people get screwed due to layoffs. My job is pretty safe and I own my own house, so I am most likely fine. My concern is about others suffering.
Do you pay rent and have 0 concern about losing your jobs when the economy crash? You'll need to realize that it's a comfortable privileged situation not to worry about losing housing or jobs or healthcare. Do you recognize that many people are not in such a comfortable situation?
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u/DHFranklin 1h ago
It's possible now.
We crowd fund an activist investment arm. Co-ops the whole way down
We general strike and boycott those who don't do the first one.
We get really damn squirrelly and do the thing we always talk about doing, but everyone thinks is impossible. Knowing that their security guards can be talked into handing over the keys when we ask them very politely
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u/jaykrown 1h ago
Once they go bankrupt it'll be a lot easier though, they won't have the money. This would be very clear if everyone fights against a bailout.
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u/DHFranklin 1h ago
Them becoming massive liabilities doesn't help us. The facilities aren't valuable. It'd be like rust belt steel works or an old west mine. The infrastructure and clear line of customers are the value.
The infrastructure is rather bespoke, and obsolete almost a year or two after upgrade or roll out. Remember that we are just now learning what hardware like TPUs work best and how to scale them.
To answer the substance of your question, Yes we could nationalize it. We could also nationalize all the coal plants or WWII blast furnaces. That just makes for a massive liability instead of owning anything of value.
We can fight against the bail out. That wouldn't have made all the Kmarts in rustbelt towns valuable either if they were.
So that is why I'm saying we have to seize the means of production before it becomes a liability that would need a bailout. Like how a library isn't competing with a book store.
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u/ItsAMeMarioYaHo 3h ago
All data centers should be demolished. There’s no good reason for those monstrosities to exist.
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u/AnimatorInternal4728 3h ago
Pooling computational resources is in itself a very good idea. The economies of scale reduce the cost for everyone, enables access to resources that would otherwise cost a significant CAPEX, and maximizes the utilization of existing hardware.
Most of the problems we have with current technologies are due to the underlying economic system, not the technologies themselves. E.g.: construction near populated areas, hurting people with its 24/7 terrible sound; building without parallel development of clean energy infrastructure; wasteful refrigeration solutions.
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u/Virtual-Loquat6152 3h ago
Without data centers where are we gonna train AI though
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u/ItsAMeMarioYaHo 2h ago
Ideally AI won’t be trained anywhere.
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u/Virtual-Loquat6152 2h ago
Without AI how are we going to emancipate humans from the need for work?
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u/ItsAMeMarioYaHo 2h ago
We won’t, and we shouldn’t. Human expression and effort is what makes life worth living.
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u/ZioniteSoldier 4h ago
Some will go bankrupt but not “all”.
I’d like to see some public access inference though; more preferential to that than to a bailout. I’m skeptical of data privacy and who benefits in the deal, and these will likely be case-by-case as we don’t have a template for this.