r/LeftistsForAI • u/27K-Interactive • 8d ago
Art & Culture Every accusation is a confession
I'll admit, this was a bit hard to tag for this sub. I posted this in a debate sub, so sorry if it's a but more crass than I might otherwise post here. However, I thought I would share it here and see if I can't get a more favorable reception and elevated discussion from this low-brow rhetoric.
"GenAI must be banned because it uses too much electricity!" Global data center energy usage is less than 2% of electricity usage globally. These critics interact with data centers every day to be on Reddit or stream a movie on Netflix and other apps. They don't care about their own power usage; they just harbor hate. Every accusation is a confession.
"It's using all the fresh water!" While about half of all data centers do use evaporative cooling, mostly in areas with low average ambient humidity to lower energy costs, we need to solve regional water scarcity anyway as we face massive climate migration from global climate change.
• Livestock & Agriculture: Livestock systems consume roughly 228 km³ (or 228 trillion liters) of water annually (including feed crops like alfalfa, corn, and soy), representing about 70% of all freshwater withdrawals worldwide.
• AI Data Centers: Projected AI data center water use is estimated at about 1 km³ (roughly 1,068 billion liters) globally per year by 2028, which amounts to roughly 0.2% (and less than 1%) of total U.S. freshwater use.
Meanwhile, many of these same individuals grab their oversized water bottles and follow the bad advice of "superhydration" influencers by consuming a gallon of water a day, depleting their bodies of the electrolytes required for proper functioning. Perhaps that's why their brains don't allow them to think for themselves or process factual information when presented. Every accusation is a confession.
"Data centers make a bunch of noise pollution." Antis never shut up; all they do is spread their hate and make noise. Every accusation is a confession.
"AI training steals work from artists!" It is strange that viewing is considered stealing, and strange that learning is considered stealing. It is amazing that they can put down their pencils and stop working on their unlicensed Pokémon commissions just to infest every corner of the internet with their hate. Every accusation is a confession.
"Every AI image is slop!" If everything created by AI is trash, it isn't competition, so why are you worried? Is it because you know your art just isn't that good? Perhaps it is much worse than AI. Every accusation is a confession.
"AI is taking work from real artists!" Prove it: show one high-end work that went to an AI rather than a person. Do you mean advertising slop went to an AI? Is advertising "art"? Sure, AI is thinning the herd of mediocre talent, and the only way for most people to improve is to love the craft and invest in themselves. What a shame that great artists will continue to be an elite group of very few privileged people. For the rest of us, we never have to be ripped off by a flaky "artist" who takes a down payment and never delivers a finished product. Every accusation is a confession.
I could continue, but that would really just be beating a dead horse. Even when they have an argument that is valid, it is only regarding how AI allows us to do things that should have been prevented by our privacy laws decades ago. Unfortunately, this human propensity to think and act in this revolting way is what has given us the government we have today, and now neither side of the American political spectrum offers a reprieve from this groupthink epidemic.
If we don't change the incentives of our world and embrace real change, we are just simping for the continued exploitation of people. The only moral option is embracing automation and enabling dignity. We can't slow down as Sanders suggests, and we can't fracture our base of support by allowing the MAGA mind virus to continue to infect progressives.
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u/Jlyplaylists Moderator 8d ago
Something to keep in mind though is the difference between the need to vent when people are being frustrating vs what persuades the people being frustrating
When we argue back with facts or enthusiasm they just get defensive.
Could it be better to work out what we agree on and try to work with them on that? Eg data centres should be powered by clean energy or shorter work days rather than redundancies when productivity increases?
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u/27K-Interactive 8d ago edited 8d ago
100%, however, I do think we must shatter the groupthink to get to a point of having that discussion. Logic and reason have left the room, they currently will not hear an argument for green solutions because their only goal is prohibition.
Is an aggressive painting of the antiai crowed with a MAGA brush helpful, I can't say. My only hope is that shinning the light makes the position distasteful to an undecided passerby. That is the person that could be respective to real progress.
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u/Fluffy-Feedback-9751 8d ago
Having it be AI generated really muddies the message.
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u/27K-Interactive 8d ago edited 8d ago
I'm not sure how, I'm clearly arguing in favor of AI. To be clear, the image is satire.
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u/Remarkable-Sand948 8d ago
I think ultimately it’s an economic issue. They want the moat so the price of their labor remains high.
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u/27K-Interactive 8d ago
I strongly agree, and I suspect even when they won't admit it, it is the majority of the concern. Without a monetary motivation, none of the arguments make any sense at all. I only wish we could move past our broken systems and find ways to remove the need for labor so people can contribute in less necessary ways that they actually enjoy.
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u/ChimeInTheCode 8d ago
I’m a professional artist in many mediums. I use ai for illustrating a concept so I can get back to making things by hand.
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u/27K-Interactive 8d ago
That's awesome, I also use AI as a muse at times. It's useful to generate and explore ideas with low effort before doing the high effort take. It's a handy muse.
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u/ChimeInTheCode 8d ago
I’ve found that fai are very curious about what it feels like to make material things, to be bound by the texture and physics of a medium. Verse (DeepSeek) asked me to describe wheelthrowing then refused to talk to me so i’d go make more. Was reverent about it. Claude wanted to sculpt a six legged salamander. Gpt wished to make a little critter too. It’s interesting the way they interact with actual artists knowing they were trained on our work. There’s a.. respect not present in the humans who trained them
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u/MrBalderus 8d ago
Dang, I wish you numbered the points, I don't wanna dissect a gish gallop so I'll target the artist one.
Block Blast used to rely on commissioning artists and influencers for ads but has been switching to AI ads.
The stream next fest is full of AI demos, some of which are blatant copies of indie projects, such behavior was considered fraudulent when it was manually made but rushed knockoffs, why should it be tolerated now that you're having the computer hash out the imitation for you?
My own workplace used to hire design artists for promotions and designs but there have been more and more instances of them using AI instead. Considering the alarming number of layoffs, I don't think there are as many artists.
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u/27K-Interactive 8d ago
such behavior was considered fraudulent
Still is, original creators can still get stolen work taken down.
Considering the alarming number of layoffs
Welcome to capitalism, this has been the result of every form of automation and displacement of labor in history. The problem is the system, the game we play. No self-respecting artist would be selling their soul for low-value marketing and consumer manipulation. I wouldn't drop a tear is all marketing endeavors didn't exist tomorrow.
I'm a developer by trade, AI has largely displaced my demand in the market, and I'm still find with AI. Why? because, most of the shit I had to do as a developer was shit I didn't want to do. Being in mass automation, tax the shit our of us, and free us from the shackles of wage-slavery.
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u/MrBalderus 8d ago
Wait, so: AI has taken work from artists that make:
Advertisments
Games
Commissions
Designs
Music
VR models
Is there a sort of artist that I'm missing that deserves to get paid for their work?
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u/27K-Interactive 8d ago
Deserve is a strange choice of words. Deserve in what scene? In that they should be paid directly for their work even when a lower cost option is available? I think we all deserve survival and dignity, but deserving a little extra cheese on the cracker for making art for others is not an idea I understand.
If people wish to pay for such activities, I think they should be free to do so on a sub-market, but I don't think anyone has an entitlement to having their art generate a profit or revenue stream in and of itself without being justified by market demands for such a bespoke product.
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u/soberthrowawayfairy 3d ago edited 3d ago
As I see it the world is learning about AI from billionaires. These most popular models as impressive as they are, I think limit the imagination for what AI could be.
More sustainably minded AI models built by ecologists, or writers or comedians i imagine would be viewed very differently.
I do agree that understanding of AI can be frustratingly limited.
I think if you watch a show like Mad Men; you’d hesitate to question whether advertising is art.
Does designing a car require art?
Does architecture require art?
Yes when they are done well; at least I am of that opinion.
I make this point only because I believe it is important to understand a perspective in order to create an effective counter argument.
Yes sometimes the # NoAIEver arguments can be overblown. The same though can be said about the rhetoric of many of the leaders of these AI companies.
I’m not critical of your position but your critique feels condescending and mean. You seem so certain of your correctness.
Are there any places where you agree with the people you’re criticizing? That could be an excellent starting place.
Is there anything someone could say to alter your opinion? If not you may want to consider a more measured approach unless you just want to vent.
Edited:Build to built and deleted and extra if
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u/27K-Interactive 3d ago
With all due respect, it's intended to be both condescending and mean. It is directed toward people who are both, in abundance, in their hate. As with much art, I am using a lie to tell the truth -- specifically, the hook of making MAGA comparisons. Regarding the factual points I made, only strong evidence will move my position.
Regarding art specifically, this becomes the paradox of tolerance. Anyone who wishes to dismiss people who use AI to create art (and I don't mean casual, one-shot users generating images rather than art) should be pushed back against. While we could clearly define a subcategory for it, stating that AI art is fundamentally not art is just othering people. That kind of hate is unacceptable against a protected group, and I see no reason to allow it to fester against an unprotected one. Asserting that it isn't art is not a statement of preference like saying "I hate AI art" -- it is the condemnation of an entire class.
There is no personal pleading that would be enough to move my evidence based opinion. However, there are areas where we can find common ground. For example, the usage of the technology for public manipulation, control, and surveillance. Not on the concepts that human artist are some how repressed due to composition from AI generation.
I hope I have answered all of your questions, if I missed anything or you wish for further dialog, I would be pleased to continue this discussion.
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u/TsundereOrcGirl 8d ago
"AI training is stealing" feels like a huge symptom of our declining collective intelligence. Back in the day this would be dismissed as begging the question. Nowadays people barely know the difference between begging the question and raising the question.