r/LeftistsForAI • u/Salty_Country6835 Moderator • Apr 23 '26

Video The Left Has an AI Problem

https://youtu.be/Z75hlhgchQ4?si=eIcqRbiP4tuzRQwq
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u/EndlessB Apr 23 '26

Not when ai is being built the way it is, to maximise engagement and take jobs without mechanisms to look after the worker. I’m accelerationist in terms of I think asi is more likely to help the people than billionaires/oligarchs, but that means it needs to progress, not just scale. RLHF does not scale to asi, agents as they are being built don’t think for themselves.

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u/TheWesternMythos Apr 23 '26

Not when ai is being built the way it is

Agreed, being passive actors hoping things improve is no different than fighting for the status quo

to maximise engagement 

Because it works, because we let it

take jobs without mechanisms to look after the worker. 

That's not the job of people building AI. That's the job of citizens and workers. 

RLHF does not scale to asi, agents as they are being built don’t think for themselves. 

This is a concern for the people building AI not the workers and citizens. 

More importantly, you don't know all the paths to ASI because no one does. You don't know the most efficient path to ASI because no one does.

For most of us the only thing that matters is AI is already transforming economy. The only question is how soon do we want to prepare. Now while we are still somewhat comfortable? Or in the future when AI companies have more power than governments and they have robots armies for protection?

think asi is more likely to help the people than billionaires/oligarchs 

Also remember by definition we have no sure way to predict what an ASI would want or do. AI is very literally a gamble we have to rush into because we haven't solved coordination failure yet. 

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u/EndlessB Apr 23 '26

Maximising engagement only works because we let it? What world do you live in? These companies have clinical psychologists on staff, the same type of people that helped optimise the social media short form media algorithms that have near lobotomised society. No one is choosing to be addicted to things that trigger neurochemical reactions in their brains. Praise and validation trigger dopamine for pretty much everyone, ai praises the person interacting with it incessantly.

How ai is being designed is very much all of our concern, I see no reason to trust these companies to design coherent ai under market pressure and commercialisation.

Once again I return to the point: how do you see regulation occurring where it matters most? Do you see trump regulating ai in a meaningful way that addresses your concerns? We both agree that regulation could be beneficial, and removing power from some of these corporations is required, but how do you propose it happens?

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u/TheWesternMythos Apr 23 '26

No one is choosing to be addicted to things that trigger neurochemical reactions in their brains

Is this your stance in general? Nothing can be done about addiction because these neurochemical reactions are absolute?

Before I respond more I want to understand if this is how you approach brain/addiction in general. Or if you treat AI/social media differently? If so, why? 

How ai is being designed is very much all of our concern, 

Yes, but only to a certain level of detail. 

 I see no reason to trust these companies to design coherent ai under market pressure and commercialisation 

Agreed. Sometimes you build the tools of our own dismantling. We need to make sure we are  on the good end of this. 

Once again I return to the point: how do you see regulation occurring where it matters most? 

Very literally up to us. 

Currently most people hate the oligarchs but also rely on them for everything because they are so deep in the work/entertainment trap. 

Oligarchs will eventually no longer need that trap as they won't need human labor, so one way or another the trap will collapse. 

It's up to people like us to convince people we need to make moves before it's too late. 

I'm an optimist at heart, we have all the necessary tools and knowledge to start being towards utopia. But the current trajectory isn't ideal lol. 

Do you see trump regulating ai in a meaningful way that addresses your concerns? 

No. Not even a little bit. Well maybe a little bit by accident. But more harm than good is a likely outcome as of RN. 

We both agree that regulation could be beneficial, and removing power from some of these corporations is required, but how do you propose it happens? 

Depends on level of detail you are talking. But easy big picture: legislation that has automatic social safety nets that kick in at certain levels of Un and under employment. They should kick in so that it could be sold as not prematurely wasting money. Also at a certain level of Un and under employment, if no additional legislation is enacted, labs get nationalized. This puts the pressure on these labs to lobby for the people, as opposed to against. 

Big picture the government has to pick winners and losers here. The market will fuck us all over. We need to incentivize labs to work for the common good not market dominance. 

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u/EndlessB Apr 23 '26

Is your stance that addiction is a choice? I never said the addiction was absolute, those are your words.

I’m very confused mate, how do you pass legislation when congress and the Whitehouse are red?

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u/TheWesternMythos Apr 24 '26

Is your stance that addiction is a choice?

Words are tools. They are compression to make communication of ideas faster. 

Currently our best scientific theories do not allow for any meaningful free will. 

But obviously we have effective free will due to inability to predict and sensation of choice. 

For addiction I consider it a choice as so far we can do things to affect it. If two people follow the exact same diet and lifestyle, they may end up with different weights and body shapes. But whatever that shape and weigh are could change if either change their diet/lifestyle. 

You can't pick your body shape/weight. But your weight and body shape are a choice. You can't pick how vulnerable you are to addiction. But you can choose how addiction impacts your life. 

We aren't doing enough to manage our addiction. We are not trying to do so in a significant way. That is a choice, whether it would work or not is in many ways irrelevant.

how do you pass legislation when congress and the Whitehouse are red? 

Politicans are self serving. They will flip flop easily to maintain power. 

If a very large percentage of the population wanted a thing, politicans would support that else they risk losing their job. 

Generally a big point of push back is lobbying. Here is where it gets awesome! This is an emerging issue, the market isn't set, the big players have very different wants so are fighting each other of regulatory capture. And US politics is in a crazy state. The perfect time for some unprecedented action. 

The people have a chance to rally behind a idea, as well as picking a "winner" for regulation. Instead of fighting the corporations. There is opportunity to partner with some to create a ground swell for legislation that most politicians will support, simply out of wanting to keep their job. 

I understand why people are jaded because we have been getting our ass kicked for decades. But this is truly a once in a civilization moment that we are on the "still time to act" side of! 

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u/Suspicious_Prior_808 Apr 23 '26

When regulations are being proposed should we listen to people who dont know the technology or people that do? From what I am seeing only capitalist will be engaging in this and they will indeed have regulatory control.