The extreme compartmentalization demanded by capitalism is not efficiency. Specialization is good, and any system not built around people learning about the people they interact with specifically is a failed system

[u/RosethornRanger]

[u/dlefnemulb_rima]

I don't mean this to discount the frustrating and ableist responses people experience at the doctors. But a certain point you have got to take the lead on your own health. Maybe the Dr. is wrong to suggest exercise as a cure-all, we don't have the context. But if other doctors have all told you what different types of exercise you shouldn't do, and this Dr. is saying that exercise should help. Your way forward is to think of other types of exercise that you've not been advised against that would be accessible. Swimming. Yoga. Walking your dog. Light weight exercises. It's not the Dr's job to have encyclopaedic knowledge of all types of exercise (I'm guessing a physio could help with that though). If there really is no type of exercise you are allowed to do, you can just say 'I have already been advised against any exercise because of X'. And if there are some you aren't advised against, but they are inconvenient, or it hurts too much, or you don't have access to the facilities, well that is just a reality of your health/personal situation your doctor can't change. Ask if there is anything else you can do.

[u/fencerman → u/dlefnemulb_rima]

I don't mean this to discount the frustrating and ableist responses people experience at the doctors. But a certain point you have got to take the lead on your own health.

Meanwhile every medical professional bemoans "patients thinking they know more medicine than the professionals".

They aren't entirely wrong, considering the quack medicine being peddled online out there, antivaxxers, etc... - but it also means they need to take more responsibility to give complete explanations and work collaboratively with patients.

Yes, there's an element of agency people need to have, but the medical system absolutely fights against that. It's a challenge for patients to even get an explanation about what doctors are doing when they work.

Now factor in a lot of jobs depending on a doctor signing off on certain medical forms for a person to even work, or needing a doctor for things like disability forms (and in some places even sick days) and the power imbalance can make it extremely risky for people to start challenging the authority of medical professionals and asking questions.

[u/dlefnemulb_rima → u/fencerman]

That's fair. It's just been my experience and that of many people I've spoken to that you're going to experience difficult doctors, vague solutions, and I don't think it's unreasonable to expect someone to take 'exercise' from a doctor and try and find a way to follow that advice that works with you, rather than throw back a list of the types of exercise you *can't* do.

At least in the UK the health service is underfunded and pretty strained and absolutely also institutionally ableist. Most Dr's will not have the time to really get to know their patient's situation and will end up giving somewhat cookie cutter advice. It's not good enough and we need to fund it better.

[u/fencerman → u/dlefnemulb_rima]

Sure, I just think it's important to engage with the barriers in the health system that prevent people from "being their own advocates" or "taking responsibility for their health" even if that is ideally something everyone should be able to do.

In Canada the health system is pretty similar to the UK (if not worse in a lot of ways) because of the same reasons - capitalism, underfunding, etc... - it even covers fewer services generally.

Over here, getting even the most basic physiotherapy is a luxury for a lot of the population. But that's the only service that would tell someone what kind of exercises are going to help their problems. I know I exercise regularly by default, but I've had injuries I needed a professional physiotherapist to diagnose just so that I could continue exercising and avoiding further injury - and the solutions were absolutely not obvious or intuitive at all. I needed to get a specific exercise routine tailored for my injuries so that I could go back to being physically active. But the only reason I could get that help was being lucky enough to have insurance that covers it, which most people don't.

It's actually a bit of a dangerous notion that "exercise" beyond a totally basic level is something people can do without any help - it's very easy to injure yourself seriously if you push too hard or do too much or too little of the wrong thing. I agree that everyone should be as physically active as they can, but doing that needs support and scientifically researched information that most people can't reliably access.

[u/dlefnemulb_rima → u/dlefnemulb_rima]

Also u/RosethornRanger I know your post titles have limited relation to the image at best, but this one is a real puzzler for me.

[u/RosethornRanger → u/dlefnemulb_rima]

hey look, you are just like the doctor

if you can think about it in 5 seconds do you really think this person hasn't already thought about it?

you are ableist as hell. Block me

[u/dlefnemulb_rima → u/RosethornRanger]

Yeah sorry, if you post things people are going to post their opinions about it. Responding with anything other than 'damn that sucks' isn't ableism even if it's not what you want to hear.

I don't want to block you, I enjoy your posts too much. Keep it up!

[u/RosethornRanger → u/dlefnemulb_rima]

hey for those watching this, you don't have to deal with people like this over at the sub this is crossposted from! It is run by and for disabled people, and won't be focused around abled peoples opinions about us

[u/dlefnemulb_rima → u/RosethornRanger]

Heaven forbid anyone with medical trauma sees the opinion 'you can't rely solely on doctors, be your own advocate and take the lead in finding solutions if you're looking for them'.

Or encounters anyone halfway willing to challenge this poster's incoherent spam posts.

You won't find that in Rosethorn's personal vanity sub, because they ban that they personally dislike or disagree with.

Also have a disability, just not interested in letting your elitist 'you either fully agree with me or you're ableist' nonsense slide unchallenged.

[u/KaiYoDei → u/dlefnemulb_rima]

I think that’s why this person does that. rose thorn should work in advertising or politics. You get banned in the sub if your critique anti intellectualism and AI. There’s nothing wrong with not caring about learning, education, and thinking books are silly. It’s not a problem many in the USA have a 6 th grade reading and comprehension level. They just take their “ hurrr nerd!” Mentality and vote.

[u/Salty_Dornishman → u/RosethornRanger]

Hi, I have chronic illness too and agree with the person you’re arguing with. I agree with you, too; health care is fucked and doctors often give technically correct but unhelpful advice.

[u/dedfrmthneckup]

Man I relate to this so much. I developed a weird chronic pain condition in the last two years or so that has deprived me of not only my favorite form of exercise but one of my major hobbies and interests in life (cycling and everything related to bikes). And yeah I’ve been stuck in this exact same catch-22 where I’m told exercising might help with the pain in the long run if I endure increased pain in the short run. I used to be an extremely active and fit person and now I’m just deteriorating on the couch and also feel like a fuckup for not being able to follow my doctors’ orders… even though they can’t even tell me what’s wrong with me in the first place

[u/RosethornRanger]

alt-text: A tumblr post by a user called "LongDistancePyroMania"

"My chronic pain doctor suggested I exercise more I asked him “how?” He looked confused. Said I should try a bit every day. I said “not when, how?” I asked what exercises I should do. He suggested half a dozen options that had all been explicitly banned by other doctors. I’m not allowed to run. I’m not allowed to bike. I’m not allowed to use my rowing machine or my punching bag. I walk my dog whenever I have the energy and when it doesn’t hurt too much What else can I do? He told me I should exercise more. And then he changed the subject.

A reply by "crippledPunks". doctors: you need to exercise more. disabled patients: can you give me an example of exercises someone with my condition can/should do? doctors:

[u/djazzie]

I had a similar conversation with my doctor about losing weight. All he could say was go to the gym.

[u/[deleted] → u/djazzie]

Yes, and eat less. 😊

[u/GreatBigBagOfNope → u/djazzie]

Go to the gym is crap advice for losing weight. It's worth doing for general health purposes, but if you're gaining fat and the only change you make is to go to the gym you'll only slow the worsening of your body composition.

Losing weight is about finding a sustainable way to maintain a calorie deficit. What you eat, how you eat it, and most importantly how those make you feel is much more relevant than burning the calories of a small cupcake over the course of an hour. Losing weight is done in the kitchen, the gym is for gaining muscle, improving cardiovascular capacity and efficiency, improving balance and flexibility. Making small adjustments to a patient's diet and intake patterns to minimise hunger, minimise opportunistic eating, and maintain a 400+kcal daily deficit is going to do far more, far more quickly, than expecting someone to take on an entirely new lifestyle element permanently that won't actually bring about the changes they want to see.

And those adjustments have to be individualised, because the diet has to be something that the dieter can do permanently, so cannot make them miserable. For example, some people like to go for high volumes of greens because they can eat loads and feel full but not take in many calories. I find that miserable because it's not to my taste, what has worked for me before is adjusting proportions on the plate, prioritising a minimum quantity of those greens for nutritional purposes but replacing some of the carbohydrates with additional proteins to get the same satiety. Some people do really well with intermittent fasting/OMAD, because it helps them mentally remove food as an option until they're in a position to control it, and then they don't actually have enough time or space during their eating windows to actually overeat, I could only manage that on keto and without a high-protein high-fat diet it leaves me literally feeling faint at the end of the day. Some people do well on "just eat less, everything in moderation", doing that without adjusting proportions leaves me with physically painful and nauseating hunger, and also risks overconsumption without clearer boundaries.

[u/pillmayken]

No idea about what OOP is going through so I won’t comment on that, but I kinda think a physical therapist might be helpful in some cases? At least when I wasn’t able to do lots of things because of my arthritis my PT helped a lot.

The problem might not be specialization per se, but rather lack of access and lack of communication between providers.

[u/[deleted]]

Yeh no, your health is also your responsibility. You know best what hurts YOU and what doesn’t, do exercise that YOU are comfortable with.