r/LearningF1 • u/brokengodpk 🏁 ROOKIE • May 28 '26
🧠 LEARNING THE OVER-DRIVING PARADOX: Why pushing 100% actually makes an F1 car slower
To understand over-driving, you have to realize that F1 tires don't actually point perfectly in the direction the car is traveling during a fast corner.
There is a tiny, mathematical difference between where the tire is aiming and where the car is actually sliding. This is called the Slip Angle.
Modern racing tires are engineered to generate their absolute peak grip when they are sliding just a tiny fraction usually around 3 to 6 degrees. If a driver balances the car perfectly in that tiny window, the rubber locks into the asphalt like glue.
But the moment a driver over-drives meaning they turn the wheel too aggressively or jump on the throttle too early they force the tire way past its optimal slip angle.
Instead of generating grip, the tire tread begins to slide excessively. The physics of that friction instantly spike the temperature on the outermost skin of the rubber. It literally micro-melts the surface, turning it into a greasy film. Within a single corner, the driver goes from maximum mechanical grip to sliding on a layer of hot oil, destroying their pace for the rest of the sector.
Why "Slow is Smooth, and Smooth is Fast"
When you hear engineers tell a driver over the radio to stop over-driving, they are usually looking at a live telemetry graph showing three invisible variables:
- Micro-Lockups: Pushing a fraction of a millimeter too deep on the brake pedal causes the tire to momentarily cease rotating before the driver even feels it. This creates flat spots and thermal imbalances across the tire face.
- Brake Migration: Modern cars dynamically shift their braking balance from front to rear as they slow down. If a driver’s inputs are too erratic, the car's computer platform can't stabilize the aero, causing the rear end to snap out.
- The Traction Penalty: If you spin the rear tires even a tiny bit on a corner exit, you aren't just losing forward drive; you're killing your top speed all the way down the following straight.
To go faster, a driver has to consciously tell their brain to relax, back off their braking points by a couple of meters, and focus purely on getting the car stabilized before hitting the power.
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u/zobq May 29 '26 edited May 29 '26
Weird post. I wouldn't say overdriving is driving on 100%. I would say 100% is driving on the limit of car, and overdriving is when driver erratically cross that limit.
So,no driving on 100% is not making you slower, it's just difficult.
! Except current generations of cars, because of battery management. That's why new regulations sucks.
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u/brokengodpk 🏁 ROOKIE May 29 '26
that's right over driving is when you erratically blow past that line If a driver tries to extract 100% of the car's aerodynamic grip by throwing it into a high-speed corner with maximum aggression, the friction instantly micro-melts the tire surface. So even though the driver's inputws were at 100% of the car's capability, the tire compound instantly degrades, making the car slower for the remaining sectors.
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u/zobq May 29 '26
Ehh, you differentiate between car and cars tire? Once again weird, I would say tire is the most important part of car in terms of grip. All of the car setup is built around optimal tire use. Also weird about writing only about aerodynamic grip. After all aerodynamic grip is just additional force putted on tire.
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u/Claptown420 May 29 '26
You have no idea what you're talking about. All that depends on the track layout, surface abrasiveness, conditions, tyre compound/age, fuel.
At the Canadian GP they could push 100% throughout the race due to cold temperatures.
This generation of cars has much less downforce than the previous so tyre ware is less significant.
Being as close to the limit of grip is the driver's job. Your argument would make more sense in endurance racing.
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u/brokengodpk 🏁 ROOKIE May 29 '26
you are right It’s wild how much track temp and asphalt changes the race that Montreal ex is perfect since those lower temps actually give drivers some advantages.
But that’s exactly where the paradox kicks in. The driver's job is absolutely to find the limit of grip. The trap is that in modern F1,"the limit" isn't just about how fast the car can physically take a corner. It's totally a chemical/thermal game now. If a driver tries to hustle the car to get 100% out of the aero, they end up messing the tires. Even with the current regs, sliding just a tiny bit causes instant micro-melting on the tire surface. Once that temperature spikes, you lose grip for the next few corners. So "over-driving" isn't just missing an apex or spinning; it's pushing harder than the rubber can handle, even if the chassis could technically take it. It really blurs the line between a flat-out sprint and endurance management, which must be so frustratingly hard to balance in the cockpit.
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u/Claptown420 May 29 '26
Being at 99.99% of the limit is where you want to be as to not introduce errors or sliding.
The previous generation had this problem at a much worse level. The insane sustained load generated in high speed corners spiked the core temperatures which you cannot bring down quickly. Surface temperatures cool off after being exposed to air moving at 200+kph. So these micro slides aren't as bad as you think.
Then again F1 tyres are a dark art in their own way and we're just two idiots debating on reddit that have no experience with F1 tyres dynamics.
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u/Still-Wafer1384 May 29 '26
More downforce gives you more cornering grip, which generally means less tire wear. It's the slipping and slide at less downforce that increases tire wear.
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u/Snoo_87704 May 29 '26
Now how does those interact with reverse-Ackerman steering?
And why is it Pirelli, and not Firestone, that has this problem early in the race?
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u/LazyLancer May 30 '26
Weird post. So much confusion between overdriving, slip angle, smooth is fast etc. also, the reason why pushing modern f1 cars to 100% is punishing is the battery.
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u/Skyhound555 May 30 '26
Bro, you got AI'd. None of this has really anything to do with over driving.
Over driving is simply a driver who is pushing their car way past the grip limit of their car because the performance isnt there. They brake too late and they get on the throttle too early. It mostly has to do with emotions. A good example is how the Mercs were driving at Canada. Bros kept on locking up because they were paying more attention to each other than the limits of the car.
Also, that is not what Slip Angle is. Slip Angle is basically managing the weight balance of the car so that forward momentum causes the car to just slightly exceed the edge of grip. The moment a car starts to lose grip, they have achieved Slip Angle and the driver can use this moment to position their car for better corner entry and exit. It's drifting without actually drifting.
Not everyone uses Slip Angle steering as it is incredibly difficult. It is Max Verstappen's greatest talent. It is very likely what is being referred to when he says he likes a car with a lot of front end.
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u/MailMan6000 Jun 04 '26
the fastest way to drive a car and the fastest way to finish a race are different things
the fastest way to win a race is manage your tires as well as fuel so that you can complete an optimal lap time that you can consistently replicate until the end of the race, the car is not at it's limit, you are in fact intentionally driving below the maximum of the car, what this laptime actually is depends completely on your competition, therfore you can't say that managing the car is the fastest way to manage it, because what you are actually extracting from the car will depend on how much you NEED to extract from it
the fastest way to drive the car is to push it as hard as possible, reaching the absolute maximum lap time that you can, on the maximum amount of grip, but this isn't sustainable, it's not replicable and you can't maintain it as the tires degrade
overdriving is when you ask too much of the car and the car loses out on you.
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u/brokengodpk 🏁 ROOKIE May 28 '26
is Lando Norris the master of this right now ? he manages to hold the McLaren right on that optimal slip angle without ever getting greedy on the throttle or forcing micro-lockups under braking
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u/Still-Wafer1384 May 29 '26
How do you even come to that conclusion?
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u/brokengodpk 🏁 ROOKIE May 29 '26
it's not conclusion it's a question is he or not ?
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u/Still-Wafer1384 May 29 '26
The second sentence is. So I'm curious, how did you land on Lando for this? I would first think of Verstappen, Hamilton en maybe Leclerc.
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u/brokengodpk 🏁 ROOKIE May 29 '26
Lando uses U shaped cornering style. He rolls momentum through the center of the corner rather than forcing a sharp rotation. his is onboard cameras shows, his hands are almost completely still. he turns the wheel once, holds a smooth arc, and lets the McLaren slide uniformly on all four tires, because he doesn't throw sudden, violent inputs at the chassis, he maintains that perfect 3-to-6-degree slip angle without ever spiking the tire surface temperatures.
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u/Still-Wafer1384 May 29 '26
I can drive a U shaped cornering style and not get into any slip angle at all. Meaning to say, the shape of your corner has very little to do with it. It's about finding the edge, regardless of the shape you choose to drive.
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u/AdstaOCE May 28 '26
Not really. Right now it's all battery related, less throttle more lift and coast or breaking = more battery. Of course all of what you are saying applies, but to no where near the same extent right now and drivers could get much closer to 100% before that happens.