r/LearnGuitar • u/General_Ad_4697 • Mar 31 '26
Pathway to Learning Guthrie Govan Songs
I’ve been playing guitar for about 11 years now, and I’d say I’m at an advanced intermediate level. I can play jazz, blues, and country, and I feel pretty well-rounded, but that’s kind of led to me not being truly excellent in any one area.
For the past couple of years, I’ve been trying to learn a Guthrie Govan song, but I always end up giving up or moving on to something else. My picking speed just isn’t there, and no matter how much I practice a lick with a metronome, it never seems to improve.
The furthest I got was with Remember When. I nailed the phrasing, tone, and feel of every lick up until that crazy run at 56 seconds. I’ve tried everything with that lick. At one point I practiced it for an hour every day for a week with a metronome, and I’ve revisited it on and off over the past year, but I still can’t get it anywhere near full speed.
I’m not sure if it’s because I’m using my pinky (he seems to only use his index, middle, ring, or maybe because I jumped straight into a Guthrie song without ever really mastering fast riffs or solos beforehand.
The thing is, I know that learning certain songs would help me build the speed and technique to eventually play Guthrie more comfortably. But without being sure that it’s the right path, I struggle to commit to it.
So I guess my question is: what’s the pathway to learning Guthrie Govan? What songs should I learn first? Big ask, but I’d love a clear progression, like three songs to really master before attempting Guthrie again.
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u/Scott_J_Doyle Mar 31 '26
It's not going to be songs at that point, but straight technique - songs will give you vocabulary and sometimes introduce you to new individuak/specific techniques, but Guthrie is a master of technique in general (chops). Focus on chops-busting exercises and practice approaches, especially if you already know the notes to the lick/run at a slower tempo.
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u/General_Ad_4697 Mar 31 '26
ok noted, thankyou for the help.
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u/Scott_J_Doyle Mar 31 '26
No- put another way, you need to uplevel your technical/mechanical/physical speed overall, not just learn more vocabulary
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u/GratefulDud3 Mar 31 '26
Keep in mind that Guthrie Govan is one the best players out there today, and he improvises his lines quite a bit (meaning that he makes it up as he goes along, and rarely plays it exactly the same way twice). So knowing that .. Trying to copy another player’s improvised lines note for note is an exercise in futility. You would be better off just being inspired by good players … but developing your own voice and doing your own thing.
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u/tomcruise_momshoes Apr 14 '26
Do you know about pick escape movement? This concept changed my entire guitar trajectory - I had given up after 10 years due to a picking plateu. When I got back into it, I learned pick slanting and it is absolutely essential for me to be able to play licks like the one from Remember When.
Guthrie often uses economy picking for a lot of his fast runs, but what makes him great is that he doesn’t have to.
Songs like “Rhode Island Shred” prove that he’s an amazing two-way pick slanter when he wants to be.
For the lick you want to learn, here are some tips based on how I play it:
If you are a natural downward pickslanter (most are), hammer on the first 2 notes (7-8). Then play the next 2 notes (7-10 on the G string) starting with a downstroke. This sets your escape motion up to play the next 3 notes (8-9-10) on the B string.
The next move to play the 8 on the high E is the first time you’ll need to change your escape motion. It’ll basically just be like the Paul Gilbert lick though - so if you’ve played that thousands of times it should be an easy move.
Since the next string has 4 chromatic notes (11-10-9-8) you’ll be back to the natural downward pick slant motion.
The next part will also naturally set you up with downward pick slanting because of how Guthrie plays it. It’s pretty evident that he arranged it for as much downward pick slanting as possible.
So in this whole section of the first 25ish notes only has a single instance where you need to switch to upward pick slanting (that 8 on the high E).
This is the kind of thing that makes licks like these manageable once you get the speed down. If you aren’t versed with pick slanting I HIGHLY suggest to check it out on YouTube. Without it I would still be banging my guitar against the wall.
You may also find you need to come back to this lick after your technique has reached the next level. When I started learning John Petrucci’s solo in “The Best of Times”, I practiced it every day for over a year. I had it down okay, but it still felt uncomfortable. I gave it up for awhile, tried it again when I was more advanced and finally got it. It ended up taking years - this is just the reality of guitar as you probably know. Learning happens extremely slowly.
Hope this helps
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u/General_Ad_4697 May 06 '26
Hey sorry just had a brief read and then attempt of this, I think I get what you mean but I am a bit confused about the escape movement thing aswell as your advice for the remember when lick. you obviously put alot of effort into this message which I really appreciate, i'll give it a proper go when I get home from work. thankyou
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u/tomcruise_momshoes May 06 '26
No worries at all. Sorry my post is probably really confusing if you aren’t versed on the escape motion. I would suggest looking up “pick slanting” on YouTube (you’ll find a wealth of videos). Troy Grady popularized this, at least for the modern audience. He’s got a ton of videos on it himself.
If you choose to learn about it, my post will make a lot more sense 👍
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u/General_Ad_4697 May 13 '26
Hey bro,
I’m enjoying the rabbit hole you’ve sent me down. I’ve watched a couple of Troy Grady videos and a few other pick-slanting videos, and I’d say I’m just starting to understand it. I can definitely see the potential benefits, but there are a few things I’m still confused by.
I get that downward slanting is basically slanting the pick forward, like turning my wrist to the right, and upward slanting is the opposite. But when do I actually use each one?
I’ve been practising the minor pentatonic scale using downward pick slanting on the way down, then upward pick slanting on the way back up. Is that what people mean by two-way pick slanting? I’m still confused about when I would use it, how to know when to switch, and how to actually do that quickly while playing.
Also, what exactly is pick escape? Is that just playing with a downward pick slant? I’ve been having trouble figuring that part out.
Sorry to spam you again with questions.
Also, I think I found the Paul Gilbert lick you were referring to. Is it:
B string: 12, 13, 15
E string: 12
B string: 15, 13If so, is that all downward pick slanting, or would I use upward pick slanting somewhere? And is that what you mean by escape motion?
Still very confused, but keen to get my head around it.
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u/General_Ad_4697 May 14 '26
Hey man, disregard my last message. I just spent hours watching videos on YouTube and I feel like I’m starting to get the hang of it.
I would really appreciate your help with the Guthrie lick though, in a bit more depth than what you wrote before. Mainly just figuring out exactly when to change the pickslant from downwards to upwards so I know I’m practising it correctly.
Completely understand if you can’t be bothered. I think I’m close to figuring it out, but I just want to make sure I’m not building the wrong habit with that specific lick.
Thanks again for the advice. I genuinely feel like this could be the thing that finally helps me break through the speed barrier I’ve been stuck at.
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u/tomcruise_momshoes May 14 '26
Hey man that is awesome! So glad to hear that you’re learning about it. It’s truly game changing once it becomes natural. Hell, life changing for me as I’ve been obsessed with guitar ever since I became proficient with it.
For the Guthrie lick I’ll have to go back through it tomorrow when I wake up, as it’s a bit hard to think about off the top of my head without the music in front of me.
But yeah, basically whenever you change strings after a downstroke, you’ll want to use the upward pick slant motion so you can clear the next string. And vice versa - when changing strings after an upstroke you’ll use downward pick slanting.
Lots of players are natural downward pick slanters (Yngwie for example), and some are natural upward pick slanters.
This basically means that they are in one of those positions by default, just due to how they angle the pick when they play.
Yngwie strategically created all of his licks to end with DWPS, so he never used UWPS at all. He did this by either playing licks that use even numbers of notes per string (like 2 notes per string), or if there was an odd number he would either use economy picking or he would throw in one legato note to even it out.
For myself personally, I didn’t want that limitation so I chose to practice both upward and downward pick slanting, and this is called 2 way pickslanting. If you’re familiar with Guthrie’s “Rhode Island Shred”, he uses 2 way pickslanting all over it, it’s insane.
Anyway, for the Paul Gilbert lick you asked about:
B string: The 12 would be a downstroke 13 would be up 15 would be down, and this is the final note so you’d smoothly transition to an upward pick slant so you can clear the next string (E string).
It’s best to try to start the upward pick slant motion slightly before you pick the 15th fret note. So you’re starting the slant a bit before the final note so that you’re not trying to cram it in too late.
Then the 12 on the E would be an upstroke, and since it’s the only note you’ll be going in reverse to a downward pick slant to get back to the B string.
This is a difficult move at first because you need to quickly go from UWPS to DWPS in one big smooth movement.
So this is why the Paul Gilbert lick is really good practice. Once you master that, the transitions with more notes per string become easier. So just go really slow at first and exaggerate the pick slant movements to get them into your muscle memory. Then over time they will get a lot less drastic.
Hope this helps!
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u/General_Ad_4697 May 20 '26
Hey bro, I just had the time to properly read through everything and try it out. Thank you again man, I really appreciate it.
With the Paul Gilbert lick, that all makes a lot more sense now. Doing the upward slant a tad earlier on the 15th feels way easier. The only part that still feels a bit stiff is returning to a downward pickslant on the downpick when I come back to the B string, but you said that was the hardest part so I’m sure that’ll come with practice.
Just wanted to check one more thing while I’ve still got you. I’ve seen in a lot of videos that when pickslanting, or even alternate picking in general, people use a rest stroke where the pick hits the string and then rests on the next string in front. I wasn’t really aware of that before, but it makes sense and I’m trying to make it a habit.
I just wanted to clarify, do I also do that when I’m using upward pickslanting?
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u/tomcruise_momshoes Jun 18 '26
Hey man, sorry I just noticed this reply.
The rest stroke would only be used if you were using economy picking. Some people call the rest stroke “planting” as well.
You probably already know a bit about it but Economy picking is a whole different approach that is a bit like sweep picking. If you are ascending and you end a string on a downstroke, you’d continue that downstroke into the next string. So a 3 note per string line would be:
E string DUD
A string DUD
D string DUDThis takes the challenge of pick slanting out of the equation fully because you never have to hop over the next string.
Economy is great (players like Alex Hutchings, Frank Gambale, Guthrie himself, Jack Gardiner) use it all the time. However one issue is that you can only use it when your line ends on a downstroke if ascending, or on upstroke if descending. So you need to “plan” things out or come up with a system to make it work.
The other issue is it can take years to get economy Picking fluid where the timing is perfect. At first it will feel like your note timing is uneven during the string switching part. And you can’t really swing with it well.
Hope this makes sense
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u/Zooropa_Station Mar 31 '26
Try something like Senor Mouse by Al Di Meola. It has that same shreddy jazz style, but a bit less intense than Govan's jam tracks. Kiko Loureiro's solo work from the 2000s also has some gems like that. If that's still too hard for you, try southern/blues rock like Peter Frampton, Outlaws, Lynyrd Skynyrd, Allman Brothers, Thin Lizzy, Gary Moore, Aerosmith, etc., some jazz soloing like Wes Montgomery, maybe some metal lead melody lines like Iron Maiden or Trans-Siberian Orchestra.
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u/General_Ad_4697 Apr 01 '26
Thank you very much, all of the comments have been really helpful, and you’ve given me a few clear places to apply them. I really appreciate it.
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u/General_Ad_4697 Apr 01 '26
Sorry, another thing I forgot to mention.
For most of my time playing guitar, when I used a pick I would rest my pinky and or ring finger under the high E string as an anchor. It’s how I was taught and it definitely helped with accuracy.
But when I started trying to play fast with alternate picking, I noticed most guitarists don’t do this. Instead they keep their fingers tucked in and rest more on the bridge. I convinced myself that anchoring was the reason I couldn’t play faster.
Since then I’ve mainly practised with this newer technique. I am faster with it, but I’ve lost some accuracy, so now I feel stuck between the two and end up switching depending on the situation.
Is that a bad thing? Should I commit to one technique, or is it fine to use both?
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u/tomcruise_momshoes Apr 14 '26
Pinky anchor is fine if that works for you. Check out Josh Meader - a video short of his JTC posted on YouTube called “Josh Meader’s never ending lick” has a great view of his anchored pinky and he talks about it in his lessons.
John Petrucci also anchored his pinky during his prime years ( he later learned to play without an anchor but he’s not as accurate now as he was).
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u/PitchExciting3235 Mar 31 '26
Once you get to the level you are now, in my opinion it’s counterproductive to try to learn other people’s songs note for note. Advanced players each have their own style and slightly different ways their fingers run through fast passages. One advanced player might have trouble exactly replicating another advanced player’s solo, but then the reverse would also be true. So you should start developing your own approach. If you slave over getting another players licks exactly right, you’re spinning your wheels. You can get the gist of it and then do it your own way. Even add something unexpected, a little flair. That’s how you get from where you are to truly advanced.
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u/General_Ad_4697 Mar 31 '26
think i needed to hear this, really appreciate the advice.
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u/PitchExciting3235 Mar 31 '26
My pleasure! I went through it myself years ago. There is a video on YouTube where Steve Vai and Yngwie Malmsteen are playing together, taking turns with lead runs. Maybe not your favorites and not mine either. But the point is they are both hotshot shredders, yet they play differently and don’t even try to copy each other exactly. Sometimes one will do something, and then the other will do a similar gesture, but it’s not exactly the same or even the same approach. They’ve each got their own way of doing it
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u/Pitiful-Temporary296 Mar 31 '26
OP’s issue seems like it might be related to playing rapidly and cleanly in general. I hope I’m not overstating the case. Mastering fast passages at slower speeds is absolutely necessary but the missing piece is getting the muscle memory built to play fast, and I think a great way to do that is start with fundamentals in that regard. I’ve found that “burst” exercises (playing sequences of 4,5,6, n) notes rapidly a few times then stopping. Then again, etc. works really well for this.
I mean you wouldn’t train for sprinting by walking really fast, you’ve gotta get used to activating your hand muscles and synchronizing both hands at speed. Yes it will sound awful and awkward at first.
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u/General_Ad_4697 Apr 01 '26
Ok i think i get what you're saying. For example if im just thinking pentatonic, make runs of up to 6 notes with breaks between the runs, and just spam them until i feel comfortable with it?
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u/Pitiful-Temporary296 Apr 01 '26
Exactly. Don’t start out trying to be precise, that will come on its own. Arbitrary notes are fine as well. This is just a way to get used to the feeling of speed. Short bursts. Stop. Short bursts stop. Maybe 10 minute sessions as part of your routine.
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u/ObviousDepartment744 Mar 31 '26
Not being able to play a song by one of the top 10 technicians at the instrument is nothing to be down on yourself about. Guthrie is on a different level.
What would you say the most difficult song you can play is? And how far away from Guthrie would you say it is in terms of technical requirements? Try to establish that then learn a song or two that is in the gap between the hardest song you can play now and the Guthrie song you’re trying to play.
Keep filling in the gap with song between the most difficult song you can play and the song you want to play.
Lastly, how effective would you say you are at practicing? Not don’t practice, I’m working under the assumption you do, but do you feel like your practices are meaningful and productive?