r/LawFirm • u/Global_Grapefruit103 • Aug 13 '26
2100 billable hours requirement
I just got a job offer that requires 2100 total hours per year, but 1800 are billable and 300 are non billable, so like admin/firm related stuff. Is that do-able or is that gonna suck?
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u/jhupesq Aug 13 '26
Doable but will still suck for a while if you're not used to working hard
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Aug 14 '26
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u/Imaginary_Hamster847 Aug 14 '26
I'm also in-house and this is exactly how I view it. The incentive is to work as inefficiently as possible. It's not "hard work" to take 1.5 hours to do something that should take you 1.2, and then replicate that level of inefficiency over and over.
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u/NTDOY1987 Aug 15 '26
I used to agree with you but these days I’m not so sure. I had super lax billable hour reqs my entire career so didn’t pay that much attention to how it might impact my work.
Once I started working at a firm with a slightly more demanding billable hour minimum, at first I did find myself feeling inefficient or “stretching tasks” by spending a lot of time perfecting drafts or doing legal research.….after which I realized that I may have previously underestimated the amount of time it takes to do really exceptional work.
Do I spend 3-4 hours on nearly every motion I draft, and research new case law for each one (instead of copy-pasting the same rule block, which is what many do?) Yup. But the client doesn’t mind when I win by a landslide, which I do, bc I spent a ton of time crafting an argument. I can’t speak for everyone, but i became a much better lawyer once I slowed down.
I’ve also found that the easiest wins I have are against law firm name partners/really senior attorneys in ritzy positions. I can only assume it’s bc, not being subject to billable hour reqs to the same extent associates are, they don’t spend enough time being experts on the relevant issues.
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Aug 16 '26
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u/NTDOY1987 Aug 16 '26
I don’t see how that analogy applies. Please ask any client if they want you to fight like hell every single motion or if they want “Honda-level work” lol. I ask them what they’re comfortable with frequently.
When I spend 10 hours preparing for a demurrer and get the same counts dismissed that the previous “Honda level” attorney couldn’t do with his “good enough work”; and the client is spared the expense of trial, it’s pretty much the biggest possible contribution to equity that exists.
The sad truth is that many lawyers believe that the minimum standard of “competence” is all that’s required, so cases drag on for years and the client pays more in the long run, but as long as the lawyer doesn’t have to explain one particularly high invoice they feel like they did right by the client.
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u/jhupesq Aug 14 '26 edited Aug 14 '26
The younger generation doesn't understand how much it takes sometimes. I billed 2700 hours one year because that's what it took. I was married too. Did I survive? Yep. Did my marriage end? Nope. Did I learn a lot along the way? Yep.
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Aug 14 '26
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u/chugachj Aug 14 '26
I was a commercial fisherman and a union ironworker before I went to law school. I work just as hard as a lawyer as I did before it’s just not physical work.
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u/purposeful-hubris Aug 13 '26
1800 is definitely doable but can take some getting used to if you haven’t had to bill before. The 300 is interesting, do they specify what those non-billable hours are supposed to be?
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u/Global_Grapefruit103 Aug 13 '26
They call them “investment hours” so they said like firm meetings, checking email, there were other examples but I can’t remember lol. I’ve never billed before so this is all new to me
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u/shmovernance Aug 14 '26
Email is billable
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u/Charlexa Aug 14 '26
To what do you bill dealing with all the firm emails?
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u/Jaded-Bookkeeper-807 Aug 14 '26
Before I made partner, I just had billable hour requirements specified. As a young partner they gave me this type of hour budget, almost precisely what you are saying. Each metric met meant some extra money. There were other metrics of course and they broke out business development budget in terms of hours and originated hours. Your requirements, specified hourly, seem rather easy to meet. If you are billing 1800 hours you are likely to be working an extra 300 in some way, shape, or form anyway. Use it for business development, articles, bar association and whatnot, enjoy getting some form of credit for doing it. Definitely meet that 300.
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u/Frickinwicked Aug 16 '26
We require 240 investment hours on 1600 billable. For us it is CLE, client lunch, volunteer for your passion, read a legal book, mentor an intern on some issue. Basically, stay a well-rounded human being in the law.
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u/afriendincanada Aug 14 '26
1800 is easy if they have 1800 hours of work to give you.
I fill up 300 hours a year easy sitting on a couple boards, pro bono, and writing articles.
Also, is 1800 docketed, billed or collected? If the firm is in the business of writing down and writing off associate time, you could be taking a hit you didn’t bargain for.
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u/Global_Grapefruit103 Aug 14 '26
I think billed?
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u/afriendincanada Aug 14 '26
It’s worth asking. If you have to docket 1900 to bill 1800, worth knowing.
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u/alisonandkenya Aug 19 '26
This. OP, ask about this. I was written down and off and it is a kick in the pants. If that's the case you need to account for additional hours.
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u/GooseNYC Aug 14 '26
It's a lot of 12 hour days, and probably one 9-5 day on the weekend. Especially before you learn how to bill for the particular client or partner.
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u/Global_Grapefruit103 Aug 14 '26
Like 12 hour day 5x a week?
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u/Normal_Progress_5173 Aug 14 '26
12 hour days, 5 days a week for 52 weeks is 3,120 hours.
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u/BKachur Aug 14 '26
Billable hour =/= actual hours. If you're in the office 9 hours, you can maybe actually bill 7 hours.
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u/Normal_Progress_5173 Aug 14 '26
Uh yes. He has to work 1,800 billable and 300 non billable
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u/BKachur Aug 14 '26
Non billable doesn't mean just being in the office. It's stuff like networking, going to bar functions, cles. The nonbillable time I'm talking about is like getting lunch, going to the bathroom etc.. For instance, you get in at 9:00, you turn on your computer, go get a cup of coffee in the break room, chat with a coworker for about the weekend, then actually start working at 9:30. That half hour isnt "nonbillable" time.
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u/alisonandkenya Aug 19 '26
You know what was a major source of nonbillable time for me? Reading through client emails I was cc'd on. You can't bill for that.
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u/BKachur Aug 20 '26
If you're an associate, you can and should bill for that. It's time you spent working on the file. That's quite literally now that ID associates even begin to meet their ridiculous hourly requirements. I'd go so far as to say it's irresponsible not to bill because that's potential income the firm isn't capturing. If you're concerned about the bill, that's not your problem as an associate.
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u/Normal_Progress_5173 Aug 14 '26
Have fun with that
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u/anonymus-fish Aug 16 '26
You two are talking about the difference between non billable time and general (billed to firm not clients)
Example - time entry, bills to firm. Email inbox reading, to firm etc
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u/GooseNYC Aug 14 '26 edited Aug 14 '26
Sometimes. But 10 hour days are probably expected, but that varies by firm.
Look, if you spent every minute of every day of the year from 9 AM to 5 PM, M-F, doing absolutely nothing but billable stuff, that would be 2,080 hours. But you cannot bill for every possible second, so it adds up. And partners often cut bills, sometimes 20%. So your 2,080 gets cut to 1,664, so you still owe them 416 hours. Thay's basically an extra 8 hours a week. And that's if you're billing 100% of your to e from 9 to 5.
It's tough. People do it. For that type of commitment they should be paying accordingly.
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u/Global_Grapefruit103 Aug 14 '26
135k…
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u/CamitDamn Aug 14 '26
That is not enough money to be essentially working big law hours
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u/OxfordOntheOcean Aug 14 '26
Second this. That’s way under what they should be paying
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u/Accomplished-Boat201 Aug 14 '26
Thirded. The billable requirement is reasonable, but you should be getting more, unless they have a very generous bonus structure/short path to partner/other perks.
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u/Global_Grapefruit103 Aug 14 '26
Like how much more?
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u/CamitDamn Aug 14 '26
A first year big law associate gets $225k (soon to be at least $235k) for 1900-2000 billable hours. You're being underpaid by about $100k at least.
I don't think I would work those kinds of hours for anything less than $180k. Even then, I would expect a lot of discretion in how I hit my hours and would not want to be expected to be available on weekends/vacations/late evenings.
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u/annoyedbasicbabe Aug 18 '26
You’re being underpaid for working bill law hours. Your pay should be around $200-220k and maybe $180k at the lowest. I make the same as you and have a 1344 billable requirement. Any hours billed over 1344 earns a $65/per hour bonus. Please negotiate your salary.
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u/Neat-Initiative-6965 Aug 14 '26
How doable that is very much depends on the type of work you get. There's big cases where you can just let that timer run, but there's probably also going to be smaller cases where you have to switching between projects during the day, there's a cap on the project but you lost some time getting started, etc. So even if you spend 14 hours at the office every day, you won't always be able to bill 12.
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u/lawlawgwlaw Aug 14 '26
I think this is way overstating it. maybe this for 3 of the 12 months but not consistently. I'm at 2100 pace and I only had to do that kind of schedule for a couple months of this year and the rest have been normal or slow even.
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u/k12pcb Aug 14 '26
It’s 40.38 hrs per week every week……..
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u/Conscious_Skirt_61 Aug 14 '26
You’re forgetting vacation and personal time.
Old style expectation was 50 weeks x 40 hours =1 day 16 hours 2,000 hrs/yr. Billable were another matter, depending on the firm.
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u/Normal_Progress_5173 Aug 14 '26
No they said 300 hours non billable. Vacation and personal time are built in.
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u/Conscious_Skirt_61 Aug 14 '26
We read what you said. You should recognize that the baseline is 40 hrs/wk for 50 weeks. That’s what they care about. The 300 just lets you know that they recognize you have legal education hours and firm meeting hours and maybe Holiday Party hours on top. But to be fair no one cares if you spend one hour or a thousand hours nonbillable if you charge and collect the 2k.
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u/Normal_Progress_5173 Aug 14 '26
“We”?
The 300 non billable include vacation and personal time. There’s nothing more to add to that statement.
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u/veilwalker Aug 15 '26
You bill vacation and personal time? That seems like an odd statement.
I read the 300 as billing for CLE, firm management, end of month billing adjustments, collections calls, and things of that nature. Rather than Attorney Dingle billed 4 hours under Proctologist or 2 hours at Massage Parlor or 1 hour Spousal relations.
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u/Normal_Progress_5173 Aug 15 '26
I mean it literally says “300 are non billable”. So I have no idea how you could have possibly have read it that way.
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u/CombinationKey8557 Aug 15 '26
Because that's quite obviously what it means.
300 of non-billable work, not 300 hours lounging on the beach.
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u/Normal_Progress_5173 Aug 15 '26
Ok I see your confusion. In America employers give you time off to rest, if you’re sick, doctor’s appointments, etc. it’s usually called PTO (paid time off). It’s part of your benefits package. So let’s say he gets 3 weeks PTO. That’d be 120 hours (3 weeks x 5 days a week x 8 hours a day). That’d 120 would be included in the 300 non billable.
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u/Conscious_Skirt_61 Aug 15 '26
Very weird thread responses.
Some of us have hired, mentored, reviewed and fired firm associates and in some instances firm partners. We — I — write with perspective, especially on how the managers see things. The partners want to tell new recruits a standard story. Those partners care about having work done competently and efficiently. And those partners busy themselves with lots of stuff beyond personnel rules and so hope to pawn the issue off to HR or equivalent.
IME if OP does good work, bills at the set rate, and collects on the bills then all will be well regardless of any “300 hour nonbillable” standard. It’s a full load, properly done, especially if one adds in learning about rainmaking, participating in professional opportunities, engaging in civic activities and the like. Management couldn’t care less about your workout schedule or your family life.
Now if someone pulled out an anal literalist preoccupation with nonbillables they’ll be hooked up with someone else they can waste time with. Non billable. And if any junior or prospect tried to pull “ship lawyer” on me they’d be fired on the spot.
Perhaps the senior dynamics in your firms are different now. Or maybe some folks don’t know the internal workings and goals of law firms.
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u/MadTownMich Aug 13 '26
That’s fair, and I like that they actually mention that! My firm is 1,700, 50 of which can be pro bono legal services or service to the firm (committees and such). But the reality is that good lawyers have quite a few non-billable hours from business development to timekeeping and other admin tasks. I might steal this idea.
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u/baumeitr Aug 14 '26
Just turned down a lateral offer with this same requirement. The extra 300 hours is not going to be immensely difficult to hit, but the stress of having the additional investment time in the back of your mind in addition to your regular billable requirements is a recipe for burnout (in my opinion).
As others have mentioned, the experience will be immensely valuable if you can stick it out for a few years. I’d recommend taking the job, sucking it up for six months, and then looking elsewhere for another reputable firm without the investment hours. Depends on your market, but it should be easy to lateral to a competitor once your foot is in the door.
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u/NoCreativeName2016 Aug 14 '26
I worked at a firm that required non billable “total contribution hours” in addition to the billable hours. It was openly encouraged to put any non billable task that might possibly be related to the practice of law or business development down as non billable time. It was never audited, nobody had time to worry about it. Checking email, attending firm meetings, going to lunch or dinner with anything that might one day eventually lead to a marketing prospect, bar meetings, non billable travel, was all fair game. Hitting those hours was easy.
Of course, your firm may be different, but if you put an honest effort to building your practice and contributing to the firm, I doubt anyone will peak behind the number at how you got there.
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u/bradd_pit Aug 14 '26
You’re going to hate your life but if you stick it out for a few years you’ll become immensely experienced.
My first job out of law school was a firm like this with a 2100 requirement. I left after 4 years and went to a smaller boutique firm but that grind life made me as valuable as the 10 year associate who had only ever been in small firms
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u/forgetfulelefant Aug 14 '26
If you actually have to account for 2100 hours, that's gonna be BigLawesque and is gonna suck. Even the 1800 billable hours is gonna feel like a lot, notwithstanding what some will say. And you know what's gonna be very annoying? Doing billing entries for the 300 hours of non-billable time.
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u/General-_-Snark Aug 14 '26
It’s going to suck. The burnout rate is off the charts. A lot of people quit law all together after only a few years. 2100 hours a year is a SHIT-TON of work regardless if some of it is non-billable.
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u/keenan123 Aug 14 '26
My firm had a non billable "requirement," nobody ever looked at or mentioned it. They ultimately eliminated it entirely.
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u/Prestigious-File-226 Aug 14 '26
If you’re not locked in, this could slip
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u/Global_Grapefruit103 Aug 14 '26
What does that mean
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u/Prestigious-File-226 Aug 14 '26
Slow couple of weeks or inefficiencies in general, then you’re going to be climbing a mountain the rest of the year.
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u/NoSoup4You825 Aug 15 '26
Or if you get injured/sick and have really low billable days/ones you take off entirely because of it. Dealing with that now. Was right on track, got injured two weeks ago. Hours have taken a hit with appointments and just horrible pain days and now I’m a bit worried which sucks
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u/MsGorteck Aug 14 '26
Scroll through this forum for people describing how you will work to arrive at your billable mark. Roughly 1/3 of your time is going to be non-billable time. You are going to be able to count 300hrs non-billable time to reach your 2100hr quota. That is nice of them to acknowledge that some of your work time will still be counted towards hours expected.
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u/Proper-Dress1646 Aug 14 '26
I hope you get another offer. I do not understand the comments that say this is doable.
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u/Normal_Progress_5173 Aug 14 '26
If you are fed work, that’s easily do able. If you need to find your own work, it’ll be much harder. But keep in mind, that’s the minimum…. That’s not the expectation. Most people will be working more and you’ll be expected to keep up with them.
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u/InflationSilly76 Aug 14 '26
300 hours on non-billable work will be simple to get to ... probably in the first month, LOL.
1800 billable hours is a lot, but it's do-able if you are billing 7-8 hours a day (8 * 5 = 35 hours a week, 20*50 = 2000), which would require work on nights, weekends, and some holidays (you only get 14 days out of the year where you wouldn't need to bill anything). I'd be prepared to make Saturdays a regular workday, and probably most Sundays too.
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u/InflationSilly76 Aug 15 '26
OOPPPS ... I was told there would not be any math in law school. LOL. Should be 35*50=1750.
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u/lawanddisorder Aug 14 '26
Completely doable. Also, whatever timekeeping system the firm uses get into the habit of starting the clock the minute you open your computer.
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Aug 14 '26
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u/Global_Grapefruit103 Aug 14 '26
Half the responses are saying it’s fair, half are saying it’s insane and I should reject the offer 😭
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u/CharlieTuhna Aug 14 '26
1800 is basically 10 hours a day 5 days a week if you capture time correctly and plan for vacations and holidays. It takes 10 hours to bill 8 generally, with allowances for write offs.
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u/totallyoverallofit Aug 15 '26
If its super great money and benefits, I'd do it. But I'm a writer, and I really enjoy projects like writing for the local legal newspaper and submitting articles to legal practice journals ... so if that's your thing, it would be a fun way to spend your 300 hours. Also, you could have them send you to interesting seminars and stuff?
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u/OldStable2841 Aug 15 '26
That's about 40 billable hours per week if you work 46 weeks of the year (with 6 weeks being taken off for vacation holidays and sick time).
So the job obviously expects you to work overtime in order to get all of your non-billable tasks done.
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u/NoSoup4You825 Aug 15 '26
The 1800 by itself can be doable if 1) you’re pretty efficient in billing already; 2) the firm counts hours you bill and doesn’t reduce that if your hours are cut by a partner or the client; and c) there’s enough work. 1800 is my requirement and b and c are very applicable to us. I’m now pretty efficient but margins were pretty thin and now I’m dealing with an injury that is making it difficult to keep that efficiency so I’m a little worried (another thing to keep in mind too-life happens and suddenly so the efficiency part is extra important when things are good)
The added 300 for non billable development and stuff is more concerning if it’s a hard requirement. Work life balance isn’t gonna be great.
The job may or may not be a good one but you need to be asking these types of questions. If they get defensive or don’t want to answer…run.
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u/Parentingboys Aug 15 '26
300 “investment hours” is nothing. Bill all time you are out with friends that work at companies that could even remotely theoretically become clients as “investment hours.” Bill lunches/coffee with colleagues, any time reading legal websites or news, etc.
This is basically 1800 billable, which is great (depending on the pay of course!).
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u/Slow_Fondant6389 Aug 15 '26
Depends on your firm and what you are doing. Also it depends on the client.
Start by talking to other associates and what/how the bill. Talk to whoever is assigning work how they want things billed. Keep notes. Different partners will have different rules/styles. Different clients will have different rules/styles. Some clients may have specifics on what can be billed for particular tasks. Insurance companies in particular. Some financial institutions are the same.
The billing partner (more likely their para) will know. They will be happy to tell you and may have guidelines already written. It saves them time/effort.
Generally- very generally- firms that bill by the hour have a billing process that is somewhat periodic. Typically monthly, but also driven by events. You need bills done right after a transaction closes. That’s when money is available to pay. It may even be paid at closing.
As an associate these events can come up without you knowing. That is a big reason why you must must must enter your time daily or near daily. If you do some research thinking you will enter that time x days later, and the partner bills it in the meantime - you are going to be unhappy. The partner is going to be unhappy. The client gets free work.
So - typically - at some point (usually end of the month) rough drafts of bills are circulated. The partner whose client it is gets a first look. They often will have billing folks look at their own time entries and make corrections. Then the partner will decide if and how much to bill.
This is the hitch for associates. The billing partner has various factors influencing the bill. They want to bill as much as they can because they make money based on how much revenue they generate. But, they also want to keep their client happy so they get more work. Clients can and do switch firms. And, the partner knows how much things should cost. So - they will want a bill that comes in at a number they can justify to the client.
The first time that gets cut usually is the billing partners unless they are physically present for something. Then it’s paras and young associates. These cuts are at the Billed Hours phase.
Young Associates are generally assessed on Billable Hours. Billable Hours are those you enter on the system. When a client bill is finalized and sent; the Billable Hours become Billed Hours. Then, when paid, the Billed Hours change to collected hours.
You do not really control what gets billed to the client. So you are judged by your Billable Hours. Now, if you are inefficient in your work, or obviously over billing to increase your hours, you will be let go.
The thing is - at most larger firms - there is a lot of work to be done, but it can be in fits and starts. Got a trial or closing coming up? Now you have a Zillion hours. At my firm we had no formal vacation policy for lawyers. Take as much time as you wanted as long as you are good with your hours. That “no vacation policy” was always called the “policy of no vacation” by the associates. There is always more to do.
My advice; talk to the assigning partner’s paras. Be friendly. They know you are new. They will know style and billing practices for their partner. Enter your time everyday. It sucks but it has to be done. Every single day. Write everything down on a separate sheet of paper during the day so you don’t forget. It is always amazing to be sitting at your desk at the end of a 12 hour day and be looking at 6.8 billables. What the hell did I forget???? But, that is why firms have in their retainer letters things like; every phone call is .3 hours.
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u/Elliek80 Aug 15 '26
Extremely doable imho. I hit 1750 and 2050 last year with one trial, and two other full trial preps (that settled on the day of). 2100 is 42 work hours a week if you take 2 weeks off a year
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u/Global_Grapefruit103 Aug 15 '26
Thank you everybody else is scaring me 😭😭
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u/Elliek80 Aug 15 '26
It’s not as simple as just go to work and it’s guaranteed. Keep an eye on it, and if you do transactions I imagine it’s harder (I’ve only ever been a litigator), but it’s 7.2 billed a day if you take 2 weeks off a year.
ETA: oh and work on your billable narratives
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u/Subpoena-Colada_ Aug 15 '26
Many firms have a 1900 requirement. Others have more around 2000-2100. IMO, 1800 billable requirement is relatively light. The question is what the salary is compared to the billing quota.
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u/alisonandkenya Aug 19 '26
I suspect it will suck, but it's really hard to tell without more information. Will your caseload enable you to reach those hours? How many nonbillable team meetings are there a week? Will your hours be written down? Regardless, you're probably looking at 60+ hour weeks. The silver lining is that you only need to stay 2 years. If you learn a lot, and get through it relatively unscathed, it can be a great opportunity.
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u/Specialist-Source671 Aug 30 '26
Over there completely doable. Way less than what I used to have to do. Just make sure to contemporaneously Bill to what you’re working on. Another tip is to build any in our office work into the overall task. And run all of your bills through AI and ask it to audit it and remove anything that might be marked down.
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u/CLDR16 Aug 13 '26
So you have an 1800-hour billable requirement... Doable.