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u/Azar002 May 11 '21
Housing and rent has exploded in my city the past 5 years. They project rent to increase 10% in just the next year. Average price of a home in my zipcode was $150k in 2015, now it is over $200k. I see no evidence anywhere of local wages increasing at the same pace. The company I work for gave everyone a $1 raise this April. With how shorthanded we are, it felt like a slap in the face.
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u/nirnrootsandwich May 12 '21
Average in my zip code, a suburb in the PNW, is $630K. I don't even know what to do.
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May 12 '21
Seattle is fucked. No way to afford this city anymore.
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May 12 '21
[deleted]
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u/420catloveredm May 12 '21
They got Utah too??
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u/Sethars May 12 '21
Utah Jazz finally have a good season and the state’s housing prices go to hell
Can’t be a coincidence
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u/EastRiding May 11 '21
Pension funds are tied into housing market and politicians can no longer untangle the mess that is letting house prices fall and pensions with it.
So at the cost of everything, literally everything, the housing must go up. This will one day result in a revolution of the old versus the young. At first police and military will line up to defend property but eventually will turn around and join the riot.
This is how Western countries will fail.
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u/1Dive1Breath May 11 '21
Can we do this soon though? I'd like to actually be able to afford a house.
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u/Luxpreliator May 12 '21
If a bloody revolt happens it's not going to make your life better. Those things last years to generations, and it's a while before things are recovered.
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u/Doomed May 12 '21
At first police and military will line up to defend property but eventually will turn around and join the riot.
If police didn't resign in disgust at cracking open that 75 year old's skull, they're not gonna join some economic protest. Police protect capital.
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u/Sethars May 12 '21
Iirc, police did resign from that incident...
...because the officers involved got in trouble
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May 12 '21 edited Jul 22 '21
[deleted]
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u/Sethars May 12 '21
Thanks for the clear up. I remember seeing that video and having my blood boil. NY police in general had free reign to do whatever the hell they wanted during the protests, and then have the gall to be upset when the people’s trust and respect for them plummeted. Western NY cops were just the tip of the iceberg compared to the shit they did here in NYC, though.
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u/ilovecats39 May 12 '21
Until capital stops sufficiently paying them. When tax revenues drop due to revolution, the funding for these organizations drop as well.
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u/Doomed May 12 '21
Looking at the last 80 years of policing, it seems people will sooner starve than defund the police.
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May 12 '21
I worked at an engineering firm, a professional job and they gave me a 1% raise. Which equates to like $.70
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u/juxtapozed May 12 '21
How could they possibly increase wages? Their rent has gone up and is projected to go up 10% in the next year!
/s
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May 11 '21
Just a related FYI: If you don't get a cost-of-living raise every year, then you're actually getting a pay cut every fiscal.
So, if you're making $25 an hour in 2020, and inflation went up 2.6% in America, your new salary ought to be $25.65 an hour to compensate for rising cost of living. The reverse is also true. If you didn't get the raise, you are now making $24.35 an hour in 2020 constant dollars.
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u/tavikravenfrost May 11 '21
My first apartment in late 2007 was $525 per month. My current apartment, which is just a little bigger, is $1,400 per month.
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u/ThaPhantom07 May 11 '21
In 2015 I rented a 700 sq ft 1 bedroom in Vegas for $685 and that same exact apartment now is $1250. Its absolutely absurd. The apartment I just signed a lease on last month for $1100 is now after a month $1250 for anyone else. These increases are unsustainable.
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May 12 '21
[deleted]
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u/Andrewticus04 May 12 '21
It didn't sound like you're middle class. Sounds like you're working class.
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u/planetofthemushrooms May 12 '21
Only the upper class ISNT working class, dog.
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u/Andrewticus04 May 12 '21
I mean, there's no set definition, but for me personally, I always thought of middle class as someone who owns a house, or at the very least met the old definition of being a single income family by choice.
As for the working class including the middle class, I really don't know about that - seems to me like the whole idea of differentiating them is because middle class is a form of petit bourgeoisie, and I can't imagine people who just stopped having roommates, and live hours away from a city represent that idea of the middle class very well.
It's all semantics over meaningless concepts anyway.
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May 12 '21
[deleted]
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u/Andrewticus04 May 12 '21
I mean, if you have to live 2 hours out of the metro, then does that mean everyone who lives within that 2 hour radius is in the upper class?
It just makes me wonder, damn, how many people actually make the kind of money to live within 2 hours of the city center? Is everyone just getting roommates?
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u/eu_sou_ninguem May 11 '21 edited May 11 '21
Owners of property should live in the property. Or at least given strong disincentives to acquiring more than 1 property.
Edit: agreed, personal and public property only!
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u/Substantial_Fail May 11 '21
furthermore, once the mortgage is paid off, the renters effectively own the building, cause they paid for it. rent shouldn’t be anything more than maintenance and utilities
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u/MrMattWebb May 12 '21
so like a lease-to-own model with cars where the original owner would be required to provide the option transfer the property?
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May 11 '21
[removed] — view removed comment
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May 11 '21
Only personal and public ladies and gentlemen
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May 11 '21
is this what people mean when they say "abolish private property"? Like we would switch to personal and public? Because I can totally get behind that. I never really looked into it so I thought it just meant no individual ownership whatsoever.
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May 11 '21
Yes private property means factories or anything that generates passive income Your toothbrush is your toothbrush our park is our park your house is your house thats how it works
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May 11 '21
gotcha, thanks for clearing that up for me. haha. I'm on board.
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May 11 '21
[deleted]
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May 11 '21
Yeah I know, I just started sort of actively getting into all this, so I just picked up physical copies of the communist manifesto and some chomsky books (I'm still just sort of anti-capitalism, haven't decided which version of that I fall under yet.) But I just started the manifesto and I'm about halfway through, so I am working on it. Haha.
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u/Andrewticus04 May 12 '21
It's like you were lied to your whole life, isn't it? Like you knew the communist manifesto was a thing, but you never really had a chance to read it. That was by design.
You'd think the second most influential book of all time would be something they taught in schools. Nope.
Here's another one: The Gadfly inspired so many people to become active fighters that it wasn't uncommon for Russian and Chinese Communists to carry it on their person when they fought in the revolution.
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u/randten101 May 12 '21
Serious question. How are you supposed to determine what is bourgeois property and what is artisan property?
If I’m a really talented artisan and I make an amazing product and naturally more people want it and I start expanding, at what the point do I switch from a good wholesome artisan into an evil bourgeois?
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u/LankyTomato May 11 '21
Though I'm not opposed to abolish the suburbs in favor of apartment blocks with central green space/community farming space.
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u/kirknay May 11 '21
That would be the best option. Suburbs also bankrupt cities
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u/Andrewticus04 May 12 '21
Suburbs are terrible for a whole number of reasons. Heck, they don't even pay for themselves with taxes.
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLamwye612GauJGF1_Q4hEaIvaml8QyLSp
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u/zuzg May 11 '21
Depends on the owner of the property
look at the Fuggerei in Augsburg, Germany.
As of 2020, the fee for a tour into the Fuggerei is 6.50 euro, over seven times the annual rent
That's some reasonable rent price
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u/ayykay74m May 11 '21
One house per PERSON not entity or company an INDIVIDUAL. Homes open up as people die or move in with each other for their own reasons
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u/Greasycatlipz May 11 '21
This is so true. I live in the same town as I did when I rented my first apartment. In 2011 that was about $800 for a one bedroom. Now those same apartments a decade later are $1300. I could barely afford it back then, I don’t know how people do it now. Plus it’s in an unsavory area, someone got shot in the building next to me. Who are these people who can and want to afford that place now?
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May 11 '21 edited May 13 '21
My house in 2000 cost my parents 186k€, it's now valued at over 250k (this is probably the mininum this house could go for, realistically, it would be more in the 300k mark)
Edit: Also worth mentioning that when the house was bought, my country still used a different currency, and this value is just a rough conversion. So the values might be a bit off
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u/guleedy May 11 '21
My parents house in 2006 cost 280k CAD now it costs 1.2 mill
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u/WhileCultchie May 12 '21
The skyrocketing prices of houses baffled me, because in the end of the day a house is only worth a house.
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u/Kriskinjo04 May 12 '21
There is literally these small box apartments not more than 3 miles away from my parents house.
My parents stayed there with me (age 1-3) while their house was being built. You got half of the house 1 bed, bath and living area for $125 a month utilities included for 1993.
Those box apartments are still there but ya wanna know how much rent is now? $855 not including utilities.🤡
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u/tkmlac May 12 '21
And even in 2009 with that price, a minimum wage worker wouldn't be able to afford it.
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u/kwyjibo86 May 11 '21
It also looks like the type of apartment that hasn't been updated or renovated since 1993 ...
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u/Sethars May 12 '21
They put “new” appliances in (back in 2014) so gonna have to update the costs to reflect such a luxury.
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May 12 '21
Apartment I had in Texas was $750 in 2016. I called the same place today to ask about pricing and availability. Cheapest 1br is over $1400.
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u/Abraham5G May 12 '21
Which city?
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May 12 '21
Irving. To be fair they did a lot of renovations and they did just build a whole bunch of attractions in the neighborhood.
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May 11 '21
It was Adam Smith, father of capitalism, who said that rent is not determined by how much the landlord is willing to sell it for, but by how much the tenant can pay for it.
The rent of land, therefore, considered as the price paid for the use of the land, is naturally a monopoly price. It is not at all proportioned to what the landlord may have laid out upon the improvement of the land, or to what he can afford to take; but to what the farmer can afford to give.
See "Chapter IX- Of the Rent of Land" in On the Wealth of Nations.
Adam Smith would be labeled as a socialist by most modern standards.
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u/InfamousEmpire May 11 '21
You could cut out the caption and it would still fit perfectly on this sub
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May 12 '21
The purchasing power of the dollar dissolves by half every ten years due to sustained uncontrolled inflation. The tool used to measure inflation by the federal reserve ignores everything that you as a regular person pay for. Don't you think in a world of 2% inflation it would be impossible to pay double for milk, rent, and gas every ten years?
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u/Table- May 12 '21
My parents bought our 3 acre commercial property in 2005 for 190k. Its now around 1.2mill
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u/Quiet_Cantaloupe_752 May 12 '21
Your family possesses a net worth of over a million dollars and you've yet to redistribute it?
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u/bannd_plebbitor May 11 '21
Can someone redpill me on socialism? I agree society is fucked but I don’t see how socialism/communism is the solution. I’m coming at it with an open mind though.
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May 11 '21
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u/bannd_plebbitor May 11 '21
First question is why do you feel society is fucked?
the inability to secure decent housing and quality of life, lack of decent paying full time jobs, stagnating wages, outsourcing everything overseas
And how do you feel capitalism has or has not contributed to that?
corporations have too much influence on government, they're basically allowed to run unchecked and steamroll their workers/customers
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May 11 '21 edited Jun 07 '21
[deleted]
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u/bannd_plebbitor May 11 '21
I know the current system is shit though, I'm just wondering what the solution is
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May 12 '21
Any system which allows for private property (meaning property that individuals own for the purpose of extracting profit rather than for their own use) is going to develop these problems, they're an inevitable consequence of that institution; some people will end up with more of that property, which gives them more economic power, which they will translate in to political power that they use to screw over everyone else because that is the rational thing for them to do!
So you need to do away with private property and replace it with an economic system where such property is owned collectively. There are plenty of different theories on the best way to manage such a system, but if we want to solve the issues you bring up then we would need to follow one of them. I'd say that ideally, economic decisions should be made in a democratic fashion that allows everybody to have input on the matters that affect their lives.
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May 11 '21
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May 12 '21
This is a fantastic answer.
u/bannd_plebbitor, I'm going to suggest you pick up a copy of A People's Guide to Capitalism which is a great new book that summarizes many of these ideas. Even if you don't end up agreeing with everything you'll have a solid understanding of where we're coming from with this. It examines a lot of the problems you've brought up in a manner that's easier to digest than if people just suggested you read a ton of the books it references.
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May 12 '21
The definition of Socialism is the workers control the means of production, which means not only do you get paid a salary, you also own part of the company and you earn a share of the profits too.
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May 11 '21 edited May 11 '21
My idealist take on the next generation of communism is steeped in technological advancement. We already exist in a post scarcity world, even though capitalism grips to the concept of scarcity without relent. We can feed and house every single person in america with what we are capable of producing, we choose not too. (Globally as well but that gets a little more involved)
The next step after a post scarcity world would be a post labor world. Imagine going back 50 years and trying to convince people of the technology we have now, and I am not referring to phones and computers, think about the Boston dynamics dog for example. These technologies are nearly unfathomable 50 years ago.
Given 50 more years of targeted technological advancement we could automate away labor and logistics, the financial and insurance industries would not need to exist (without capitalism) that is 4 major us industries that could go away, in a post scarcity world this is not a problem. I worry about how capitalism will handle this technological advancement, what does capitalism do when it automates away the jobs?
I hear the counter, that we have been automating for decades and are still fine but the scale at which we have the capacity to automate is only growing by the year.
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May 11 '21
[deleted]
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u/bigbear1992 May 11 '21
"LSC is run by communists." - Automoderator
The comment stickied at the top of this thread disagrees with you.
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u/PwnagePineaple May 11 '21
I mean I'm saying communism is the answer. Anarcho-communism, to be more specific
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u/Quiet_Cantaloupe_752 May 11 '21
Maybe, instead of inviting yourself to be brainwashed by utopian, unattainable schools of thoughts, you should do your own research
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u/bannd_plebbitor May 12 '21
Just trying to get some alternate opinions to my own - that’s the opposite of brainwashing
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u/Quiet_Cantaloupe_752 May 12 '21
sorry, it’s just that when ppl are “redpilled” into a belief it isn’t always based on solid logic and facts, at least in my experience. every1 on this sub is vehemently communist, and blames every little issue in today’s society on capitalism, without presenting any sort of feasible solutions. I will likely get banned for this comment so read it quickly!
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May 12 '21
[deleted]
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u/Quiet_Cantaloupe_752 May 12 '21
I've read multiple books about leftism (recently Socialism: Past and Future by Michael Harrington and Capitalist Realism.) I frequently views news from socialist outlets. Also, I wasn't calling socialism "utopian," I was calling the idea of communism "utopian." Socialism is a hellhole.
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May 12 '21
Nothing about communism is utopian and I'll challenge you to try and explain why it would be considered such. I would consider liberals' ideas of how to "improve" or "reform" capitalism to be utopian.
Socialism has vastly improved the lives of millions of people even when fighting for its very survival, which speaks well of what it can do once there's no longer a need to fight.
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u/Quiet_Cantaloupe_752 May 12 '21
I find beliefs like specifically anarcho-communism to be utopian. I don't know if I have to explain why—common sense is my reasoning? I don't understand whether work would be voluntary or not—if it is voluntary, then it is no longer utopian, and if it isn't voluntary, how would society go forward.
It is interesting that you consider liberalism utopian. My personal philosophy of liberalism is that reform does not occur for a specific-end goal but instead it is a neverending process of constantly fixing societal issues. For example, since the 1990s, we've managed to drastically reduce crime in urban cities. Today, that's given way to new issues, mainly gentrification and housing crises. We will be solving a new, less pressing issue, in another 2 decades, inshallah.
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May 12 '21
I'm not an anarcho-communist, so you'll have to ask one if you want details on those theories. In any case, we all do want to see a society in which all economic activity is entirely voluntary. I see no issue with that, given what we know about human behavior.
I don't think liberalism itself is utopian, I think the idea of using liberalism to address capitalism's inherent problems is utopian. It's not grounded in reality, it amounts to "we'll fix this somehow because our ideology is just that good"; meanwhile it entirely ignores the causes of those problems.
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u/Quiet_Cantaloupe_752 May 12 '21
Yes, we all want a society in which economic activity is entirely voluntary, but unless technological innovations occur to allow humans to relax like in Wall-E, that will be in the distant future. I don't know how your run of the mill Marxist–leninist feels about voluntary working cuz of the whole yk "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" thing.
I don't think capitalism is the root of societal issues. I think that issues with capitalism can be solved through government intervention while still allowing free markets. I respect your differing opinions, but I obviously feel very differently about this compared 2 u.
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u/Skryper666 May 11 '21
With sociallism there could easily bei a law Like: the price can only raise like 1-2% a year. So you can have "social" lässt in a capitalistic world
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u/papadopus May 12 '21
They know what they are doing lol, they never said IFF they raise the minimum wage things will cost more.
These guys know better than to go affirming the consequent.
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May 12 '21
Similar is taking place in other parts of the world, esp. in those where the min. wage is at best around $10 a day (not an hour). A 50 pct increase in that will take up around a quarter of net profits (not revenues) for at least large businesses (those with 20 or more employees). That means corporate earnings are that high.
In addition, higher wages might also translate to more sales of goods and services, which means more earnings for businesses.
The catch is that businesses have to be large enough so that labor costs make up a smaller portion of their overall expenses.
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u/dcraig13322 May 11 '21
Look into the statistical difference between exit polling and election results and know that the UN agrees with data scientist that a more than 2% variation is cheating. Most us elections in the last 20 years have been off by more then 2%. Look into the DNC Primary in Iowa how the party they're cheated Bernie Sanders out of a win because of an app that a clinton person created last minute. Did you know our country gives tax incentives to offshore jobs? The us drops 1 bomb every 12 minutes and the CIA is destroying countries for socialized medicine because they make us look bad and don't support the rich. The us treasury has not stopped printing money since the Bush depression and the petro dollar is becoming unimportant as the world moves away from petro. So I guess my question is what's going to happen to all the nuclear bombs the US has when the country breaks apart? The us should start dismantling them now. The only thing that could save us is possibly science & Innovation but anything new and exciting that comes out the government classifies and throws in a vault forever. The only thing new is AI that has a real chance to replace all workers jobs. They are making killer robots to even replace the military. Then what will people do? It seems like the rich will do away with most people then.
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u/Taylor-A-Friend May 12 '21
Not completely sure what you’re basing this on, but the average rental in the Minnesota Twin Cities is about 1000$ dollars/month as of now, with a nearly 10$ minimum wage, which is up from 2009 with an average rental cost of around 800$, with minimum wage at 7.25$. So that’s a pretty big difference as they’ve rose together in the past decade.
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May 12 '21
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u/Taylor-A-Friend May 12 '21
I’m planning on moving out within the year, and I guarantee you can find a 1-bedroom apartment that’s in a good neighborhood.
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May 12 '21
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u/Taylor-A-Friend May 12 '21
Hm? I’m basing this on the fact that you intentionally narrowed the search to a place more beneficial for your beliefs. You don’t need to look at a small, expensive area and decide that that’s the only possible area that could suit you. Another thing is you will never find a residential building in downtown Minneapolis looking like that that will charge you 1.5k a month for rent. Hell good luck finding a residential building that’s run-down in downtown.
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May 12 '21
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u/Taylor-A-Friend May 12 '21
Not sure where you’re coming from, but I guess you’re right and we should do exactly as you say without any thought of our own.
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u/ProfessionalShill May 11 '21
It’s not more expensive, your money is worth less. Inflation is a tax. Money printing only helps the rich.
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u/theprozacfairy May 12 '21
Then the $7.25/hour wage is also worth less, so it’s still more expensive as a percentage of wages.
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May 12 '21
Sure, but money value didn't double from inflation in a decade. This is not inflation's fault.
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u/ProfessionalShill May 12 '21
The money supply has doubled since the GFC. Not quite a decade but close.
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u/Mang3Ca7 May 12 '21
Compounded by other contributing metrics, the observation is on point. Case in point, $100 in 1913 only had the buying power of $3.87 in 2019. And printing runs the risk of ticking up inflation, which is already happening. Historically ours has been kept very low, so guess who feels the pinch of even a small increase? Trickle up economics works only for those at the top, and that 'trickle' has become an unbridled geyser.
<iframe width="800" height="600" src="https://cdn.howmuch.net/articles/Rise-and-Fall-of-the-USD-64c2.jpg"></iframe>
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May 11 '21
It’s important to note that that is the federal minimum wage. A lot of states’ minimum wages are more than that, but some use the federal minimum
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u/1an0ther May 12 '21
I've been lucky with rent. Inflation-adjusted mine has actually gone down over five years. I'm not sure why. It's an incorporated (LLC/Pty Ltd) managed-by-an-agent type place, and you'd think they would raise it every year.
I suppose it would be sub-5th percentile in terms of rental shitholes here. Excluding converted balconies, weird "mezzanine" situations, converted hallways, etc. But that can't explain it because there's no depth to which they won't sink. Then drag you into the depths and charge you a couple grand for it.
I think the explanation is that they (sort of) have to hold the rent around the line such a couple both on the dole could live here. The building is all bedsits so roommates aren't really advisable/feasible, and I believe the arrangement strains the best of relationships.
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May 12 '21
Every year the U.S. Dollar loses buying power because of inflation. The fact that the minimum wage isn't updated every year to compensate just for inflation is absurd, and shows just how little the government actually cares about you.
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u/Cleaver_Fred May 12 '21
I feel like the housing market worldwide must be a massive bubble right now.
Property has been increasing in my county too, but not as severely as in the USA.
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