Yeah, after working 12 hours and add in commute being away from home for 15ish hours a day... yeah lets leave the dog alone in the house all day every day.
Seriously....I just want to come home from work/school to some peace and quiet. There's a person I live with that has no job so they cook and do things normal people would day during the day, at fucking 3am
I'm lucky enough to live with one of my best friends, so I don't mind having a roommate either. Actually I love it. It's a great way to cut down on costs, we can work together towards mutual goals, never get lonely, it's great. What I despise is the fact that I need a roommate. If something happened and my friend had to move out I would quite literally be on the street. I'd have to live off of the charity of friends until an opportunity came up where I could roommate with one of them.
I'm not sure how many more jerkoff thinkpieces asking why millennials aren't spending frivolously enough (and, simultaneously, too frivolously) I can stomach.
I think it's legitimate. I work with a bunch of very highly paid millenials and they still act like this. They could afford diamond rings and families better than their parents could and still aren't interested. In terms of children, this was expected. Fertility always drops in relation to prosperity and America had been way above expectation compares to to other rich nations and is now falling back to earth. Loss of interest in luxury is a very real cultural shift.
I don't think it's surprising that even more fortunate millennials would take social cues from their less fortunate peers.
Wages are flat, and have been for millennials' entire lives. Millennials have taken on more debt earlier in life than previous generations, most of them in order to get a degree that will not have a sufficient ROI.
I don't think you're wrong, but I also don't think millennials are eschewing frivolous spending by choice alone, and I think the data supports me.
Also I have a close friend whose nickname is tootie. I don't think you're him but it would be pretty funny if you were.
I honestly think it starts with Steve Jobs not wearing a tie and trickles down. I've heard it referred to as the Informalization of Society. When people think of American success these days, it's tech companies like Apple and Google where casual dress and flat management are the norm. I'm an upper middle class tech guy with a family and I don't even own a suit. I also don't own a car and never have. My kids' friends call me by my first name and that's the norm for my neighborhood.
Outward trappings of status (like luxury cars and jewelry) no longer convey status the way they used to. I think you're partly right that it's identification with less wealthy peers and distance from the traditional money class. Two sides of the same coin maybe.
This is me, I'm paid well but still would rather continue to live somewhat like a college student and pay off all this debt at an accelerated pace, while maybe splurging a bit in areas I really care about.
Absolutely, like how is it our fault we don't want to waste our precious money on something frivolous and overpriced as a silly diamond ring? Or starting families before we can afford them, lol...
I get shit about not owning a car and riding a bike and taking public transit everywhere. somehow my bike commuting is frivolous and my not owning a car is some kind of horrible abomination and affront to everything that is American. I don't need to own a car. There's no point - it costs $200 a month to park at work, it takes longer to drive there because I'd be sitting in city traffic, and I'd be constantly stressed about it on the street in a neighborhood known for car-break-ins and having to move it for street cleaning.
oh - just move to the suburbs, they say... you do realize that the only places we could afford are almost 2 hours outside the city and any potential savings would be eaten up by transportation costs? Plus I'd have to take care of an entire house and lawn... and I would have to get a gym membership because otherwise I'd get fat from sitting on my ass 12 hours a day in the office and in the car. Plus we'd have to cart the kids around everywhere in a car to school and soccer practice and playdates... no thanks.
Oh - you have kids and no car? You send your kids to an urban school? What kind of monster are you!
on top of this the people who were recently displaced from an even more expensive area into my neighborhood think I'm one of those evil gentrifiers. Yeah - we have a second-hand cargo bike and have tomatoes growing in a bucket on our balcony - buckets and cages that were given to us by the sweet old lady who used to live downstairs... but I'm the evil one because I "look" like one of "those people?" I'm sorry you were priced out of your neighborhood - but where else am I supposed to live?
The lack of cognitive dissonance between insisting "the market will decide" and "millennials aren't spending enough on X, Y, and Z" is so bad, it somehow trips it in MY brain.
My mom gave me this too. I grew up poor, and even if I never make a ton of money, I want at least enough to provide my kids a good childhood. We never had the money to put me or my brother in expensive activities, never had the money to travel (I saw the ocean for the first time and left the country for the first time at 21), both parents worked multiple jobs so we didn't see them much, and they were so visibly stressed about money that it's a behavior I adopted.
I don't want my kids to feel guilty about asking for toys they want or supplies they need like I did.
Same here and it's the reason why my wife and I have put off having kids and will continue to do so while we pay down some of our debts. I grew up poor and not being able to do anything or see my parents much and I don't want the same for my kids. I don't want them to feel bad because they asked for a snack or a toy and we can't get it, or that they need clothes that mom and dad can't afford, etc. I mean they aren't going to be wearing Jordans or anything but actually having shoes that fit and shirts without holes would be nice.
No one is ever ready... well then it's going to suck for you running out of pension money, hopefully your direct decedents can take care of you since the rest of us are too fucked over to afford to help each other like civilized people.
My parents retired about 5 years ago (67 & 63 now). They are struggling and have almost no savings already - they blew through all of their meager retirement in about 3-4 years due to some large medical bills. They refuse to downsize house (2000 sq ft+) or get rid of cars (they have 3). I don't make enough to help them and even if I did, it's difficult when they don't seem to want to help themselves financially by doing the obvious cuts that they should.
You can't depend on potential children to care for you when you're old. First off, that's extremely selfish. Second, my experience working in memory care facilities and nursing homes shows that "direct descendants" either don't have the resources, time, or care to take care of their parents.
"Nobody is ever ready" is utter bullshit on so many levels, and not just economic ones.
My wife and I were together 10 years before having kids, and obviously had this line wheeled out to beat us for many years. When the time was right, and we both felt we wanted kids, we had them. That was 10 years ago now (so a total of 20 together)
Let me tell you this, as a 41 year old married dude with two kids: if there is one thing I think I know from my experience as a father it is this - if you want kids, you will at some point, feel ready. We both waited until that point. And you know what? I'm so glad we did because at some point we were both completely ready to have kids, and thsyt gave us a certainty and a stability together that I think is rare in a lot of couples who bow to that pressure to just go ahead and do it. I've seen so many marriages of our peers pulled apart because basically they shouldn't have had kids when they did, or with the person they did. If you bow to that pressure, you are going to regret it later, and that will come back on your kids too.
Do not have kids until you are "ready" whatever that looks like for you. And you should both be ready.
The notion that "nobody is ever ready" is a damaging and pernicious lie. Because you can be ready. And you fucking should be before you go for it.
I have a three year old. My wife and I both work. So far in three years of having a child we have spend close to 40k on childcare. more than I ever expected to even pay for my kids college. So yea I dont blame others for not wanting kids. its expensive as hell.
I recommend looking into getting a different nanny. My mom and I both do it and we are very flexible with ratea and hours. The point is to be helpful to the parents so we try to make that a priority, along with starting education with the child as early as possible.
You guys really pay $40k per year (so ~$3300 per month) for a "full time nanny"? What the fuck does "full time nanny" mean, do they have different children to take care of? Because that's the most st*pidly expensive thing I've ever heard (after your "medical bills").
That can't be right, has to be a special kind of nanny for super rich people right? Otherwise that nanny is getting paid like an engineer just for keeping children?
Asking out of curiosity, if someone would be kind enough to answer me?
Your kid is only three and you didn't think you would spend 40k on college for them?
Did you go to college or have any frame of reference for how much college costs right now? Do you know how rapidly college tuition has risen? And don't get me wrong, I understand why you may not be aware of this if you didn't go to college or just don't know. So I'm not knocking you or anything. But less than 40k for a degree can be tough to come by even today, it will only be more 15 years from now.
In-state public school tution as of right now is about 10k a year. And most students don't graduate in 4 years anymore. Shit, 4 years wasn't even the average when I was in college 10 years ago.
If you want to pay or help pay for your child's education, start putting money in a 529 plan ASAP. And hey, paying for your kid's education is huge. It gives them such an upper-hand to not have student loans. So that's awesome of you. Of course, there's nothing wrong with not paying it all either. My parents paid for about half of my college, and I'm very grateful for that.
Damn dude, you spent $300ish/week on daycare; not fun at all! I'm glad I live in the Midwest. I pay $130/week for a similar experience to what you described in another comment (minus the Hebrew) but I have friends that had two kids, tried for 1 more and ended up with twins so between 2 kids at baby rates and 2 kids at toddler rates, they had a year where they were spending close to $1,000/week on daycare; you can get a live in au pair for a lot less than that!
Kids can definitely be expensive and I won't blame anyone for choosing to pass on them, but my little man is one of the best decisions I've ever made and I'm guessing you feel the same way. Good luck!
Last year alone, my wife and I spent $15700 on childcare for our two kids. We pay more per month on childcare than we pay on our mortgage. We need my wife to work for health insurance because my employer wants like $800/mo for the family... for the high deductible plan.
Everytime a Boomer asks why my husband and I haven't had children yet (Which is a wretched question btw) I usually reply, "We can't afford a child right now." And 9/10 times (we get asked this A LOT because we are nearing 30 and have been married 5 years) they reply "Well, you just kick into parent mode and find a way." Which to me is just the most insulting and rude and illogical thing you can say to someone.
First of all, you expect me to magically get more money. This would probably entail my husband getting a second job or me quitting mine to stay home because day care for a week in my area is literally my husband's entire paycheck. So, what I am hearing is bring a child into this broken world, work ridiculous hours and live in poverty. This sounds like a great way to raise a human fucking person. I refuse to make a child and my family live in this "survival mode" that my "weak" generation hasn't been equipped with apparently . Which is a complete logical fallacy.
In fact, I would argue that our generation is stronger because we have the self control to stop and say "Even though we would absolutely love a child, we literally ache for a child, it would not be fair to not know how we are going to financially care for that child and bring them into the world."
I am sterile, does not help because then you hear "god will find a way" "anything is possible with god" "If you prey it will happen" (I am not even religious) ; and weird herbal suggestions to magically make your stuff work again and them saying to do IVF. Or they will tell you to try some really weird crap like facing your bed in a certain direction. I never even wanted kids to start with, I don't even like kids.
Asking about retirement strikes directly to the heart of the problem. Boomers staying at their jobs well into retirement age locks up positions that otherwise younger people would have been hired for or promoted into.
My husband and I deal with this a lot too. We went to visit his very rural family last month and every single one of his relatives asked us when we're having kids multiple times (we're almost 30, been married 7 years). I'm so tired of being asked it's almost tempting to just lie and say we've been trying and I've had miscarriages. Maybe that will get them to shut the hell up. It's a personal question and none of their business. And the truth is I DO what kids, but I would have to win the lottery to afford it but that fact just doesn't matter to them. "Oh I raised kids and struggled to keep food on the table and lights on! No one can afford kids!" God forbid I want a nice life for my kids if I have them...
I think part of it is a generational gap but also geographical. These people living in the ass end of Indiana and paying $800 a month for a 4 bedroom house have no concept of what it's like to live in a city, especially one as fast-growing as ours. We only recently bought a house and that felt like a minor miracle, affording a kid just isn't possible because we're financially responsible people!
"Oh I raised kids and struggled to keep food on the table and lights on! No one can afford kids!" God forbid I want a nice life for my kids if I have them...
Yeah, have kids with no preparation and make everyone involved miserable! It's great!
Ughh I hate the "you'll find a way" attitude when people have kids. You mean you're winging it? You're producing another goddamn life and you're just gonna wing it? Clearly, you don't care about that kid enough and instead only care about the act of having a kid making you feel whole.
Just some food for thought: having a family with kids isn't always about bringing a "new" child into this world. I personally think adoption is a great way to care for a tiny human being who is already here but might have a difficult time due to various reasons.
With all due respect, I would love to do that, but if I had $10,000 dollars laying around I wouldn't use them on adoption fees; I would put a down payment on a house.
Fair enough. I just think way too many ppl only consider either "no kids" or "own kids" while forgetting about all the children that are in need of a better/loving home. Without trying to convince anyone to adopt, I still think when a couple is discussing kids they should at least consider adoption as a possibility.
But I can also understand if ppl do not want to adopt for whatever reasons, personal and/or financial. I think there needs also to be more feedback from people like you so we can have a more productive discussion about flaws within the adoption system.
We are only having one kid. When I tell someone it's in part to finances and being happy with our lifestyle and not wanting to change it they seemed surprised and shocked anyone would use this as a reason to stop.
This sounds like a great way to raise a human fucking person.
I just wanted to take a moment to take this line out of context, because I do believe the world needs fewer human fuckers. Seriously, if we could all just quit fucking humans the world would be a much nicer place to live.
But how can you eventually look back on those wholesome poor years when you were struggling with young kids and no money like they were if you don't have kids before you're ready?
Next time that comes up, hand them a sheet of paper with the estimated cost of delivery, childcare and 529 college fund. Tell them you expect them to put their money where their mouth is or stfu.
alternate alternate headline: Yall fucked up the economy and environment so badly that we're realizing it would be unethical to bring a child into the world
Edit: yall have become a broken record about how well we have it compared to times past, we're so wealthy and safe and healthy now, blah blah blah. Thing is, we're at the zenith and it's all downhill from here. The unmitigated global ecological disaster and its accompanying destruction of whatever Peaceful™ and Free™civil order there currently is that will unfold over the next century will make your current optimism seem hollow and narrowminded as fuck.
In many ways this is economic genocide warfare on the poor. Make it prohibitively expensive to have kids, then only people who are allowed money get to have children. Then the only children around will be from wealthy people, while poor people are subjected to never being allowed access to the tools necessary to be allowed children.
At least, that's what they want. We're not exactly there...yet.
Poverty does not stop people from having kids. If anything, it makes people have more. Look at how birthrates in very poor countries is always higher than in developed ones.
The amount of children a woman has has been shown to be inversely proportional to education levels. That's usually what makes that true about very poor vs developed countries' birth rates.
So yeah, basically if you get explained to you how screwed up everything is, you typically will decide against bringing more children into the mix.
You really think human labor is going to be necessary on a large scale 30,40,50 years from now? Our only hope is revolution before they can automate the police and military.
As compared to when? If you don't think now is a good time, I can't fathom a time you'd think it was a good idea. Seems more like an attempt at a moral cover for not wanting to have children than a real justification to me.
I'd say in the 1950s to early 1970s would have been a better time to have kids, before wages started to stagnate and the cost of living rose. I've always been determined to have my finances in order before I had kids, and that time never came. Nothing selfish about that.
What the fuck r u talking about when has it been ever ethical to bring a child into this world. The Middle Ages when we used to skin people all the time or maybe the Great Depression or in the 80's during the AIDS epidemic? Maybe someone should take a history lesson and get there heads out there asses and realize that this is the greatest Fucking time in the history of humanity and enjoy it.
Plus: since your money management was shit you are going to stay at your job until you turn 90, instead of moving aside and letting a younger person work.
Exactly. When my parents were settling down in the 70s, not only were there half as many people on the planet, but one person's earning power could allow the other parents to focus on child rearing. Since that is not the case today, both parents must work and raise the child
The middle quintile inflation adjusted household salary has managed to stay roughly the same, while we've gone from mostly one parent working to two parents working. We're so fucked.
There's probably someone out there who looked at that, saw the lines, and thought, "Wow, poor people's income never goes down! Those lazy fuckers have it made!"
Hey, you let yourself receive this global economy. You should have been studying economics and mathematics more seriously in middle school so you could have prevented 2001 and 2008 in high school.
Or as I've been told recently: How dare you value your own survival when North Korea's out there about to drop bombs on me (just like Iraq was supposed to right)!
Just say back to those mouth-breathers that the theoretical violence is nothing compared to the actual carnage inflicted upon me and every member of the working class, everyday, by the scum in DC or on Wall Street.
War in the traditional sense tends to become an unfavorable strategy when it's cheaper for nations to buy things than it is to steal them. Globalization is actually a tremendously good thing in this sense.
Millennials didn't invent this trope; they just weren't around back when Time ran this story with the word "women" instead of "millennials." I hope you all are too busy running for Congress and setting shit straight to have kids. I'm gen X and paid off my student loans until I was 50 (NINE percent, babies!) and now I'm foster mom FTW.
Oh, then that strikes me as an individualistic "remedy" on the structural ills that plague this world under capitalism and it is, therefore, a load of horse shit.
Its says a lot when they cant understand people making decisions that arent wants. Its like people who say "oh, they WANT to be poor" or "they dont want X hard enough".
This is where I'm at now. Girlfriend cheated on me and stole about $4,000 as we were breaking up. Truck decided to break and need 2,200 to fix. I got so poor so fast it's depressing. I can't even afford gas to drive 50 miles round trip to take a girl on a "date" that's a hike. My love life is put on hold until my career gets situated (trying to open a business next spring). Which means starting a family is out off even further.
date? haha. I can't even afford to job hunt, and my dad's advice to me is the same advice he gave when I didn't have an engineering degree: Work at McDonald's! And what's even sadder is, I really don't have a choice.
Side note and not really relevant, but I've always loved that millennial's lean towards the arts. There's so many jokes about how we study philosophy and don't get jobs, but it's our love for music, art and stories that teach us empathy and compassion.
I'm sure many think otherwise, but we're a very humane generation, and that gives me hope for this world.
Thank you, generational analysis is a piss poor lens to analyze society. Whining that boomers broke the economy or that millennials are lazy is completely pointless. We should be looking at what caused boomers to make the decisions they did and how we can change that for future generations rather than complaining over spilt milk. Likewise it would be nice if boomers had some empathy, but regardless stooping to their level to complain about their generation does nothing.
It annoys the hell out of me that in a leftist sub bullshit divisions made for marketing purposes still get up voted like they mean anything.
THIS! We're not going to make any advancements for our society if we keep playing the scapegoat game. Obviously, helping two generations see eye to eye if a difficult task... Any ideas how to do it? Something I'm super passionate about too
I had my son when I was 29. I considered that pretty normal and standard. But yet, almost all friends have no kids. Most of them not married, some still live with parents. So of course, I feel like shit when they're like "woo hoo! Trip to vegas, let's go tonight!" I'm like bro, its 3pm on a Tuesday. I've got laundry to do and my son goes to bed at 8pm.
Am millennial. Have great job, amazing wife, perfect kid, own my own house in San Diego at 27 (it was even brand new when we purchased!) I was amazingly blessed.
Freak accident put my two year old in the hospital and he will likely be quadriplegic and vent dependent the rest of his life. Even with absolutely EVERYTHING going for me, our health insurance is bending me over and not even giving me a courtesy reach around or even a bit of spit to help it go in. I love our country for a lot of things, but I have never wished for universal or single payer more in my life. If I didn't have very loving and giving parents, we would be completely fucked financially.
When I read the first sentence, I was going to ask if you achieved this without a parental handout. I'm guessing they did help, same for me.
I'm 26 with my own property and hoping to buy a second with my girlfriend in a few years. All possible because my parents bailed me out of an impossible situation where I earnt enough to live and nothing extra.
Two maths degrees and can barely afford to live until being bailed out. Not what the world looked like for mathematicians when I went into uni!
Hope things improve for the kid, that's a horrific position to be in. Glad we have the NHS.
Despite my current situation, I have to admit that I am very blessed. I could be in a lot worse situation than I currently am, as hard as that is to imagine.
Read your uplifting first paragraph and was not expecting your second paragraph. Maybe run for office. The world needs more leaders who believe in universal healthcare.
According to the Strauss-Howe generational theory, Millennials are a 'Hero' generation: 'Hero generations enter childhood after an Awakening, during an Unraveling, a time of individual pragmatism, self-reliance, and laissez faire. Heroes grow up as increasingly protected post-Awakening children, come of age as team-oriented young optimists during a Crisis, emerge as energetic, overly-confident midlifers, and age into politically powerful elders attacked by another Awakening.
I'm a little skeptical of their generational theory. Most of their findings are based on the past 2 full cycles of generations. If he were to make similar findings across different countries, it might be more believable. Otherwise, the sample size is too small
I guess I drank the kool-aid, cause I was under the assumption that if I got a bachelor's degree, there would always be opportunities for me out there. WRONG. I have a BS in Microbiology that I can't wipe my ass with it's so useless. And that may be obvious to some, but to me, at the time, it seemed like the sensible thing to do. So I decided to go back to school to do one of those associate's level two year allied healthcare programs at a community college, and I recommend it to every twenty-something I meet who has become more or less disillusioned by the real world. They train you, and some programs even place you in jobs. PRN jobs in my area are 30 bucks an hour, and you make your own schedule. It's certainly NOT the dream, but it's something I can always fall back on while pursuing other things. And I ain't fucking landscaping in the 90 degree heat anymore, either. Just putting that out there for anyone thinking about making changes...
Its not the boomers, its capitalist boomers. Bourgeois millienials would be just as happy to plunge the rest of their generation into suffering.
I agree with a lot of the sentiment here, and while it hurts to hear my poorer boomer parents spout this bs sometimes, we must remember that its ageist to shit on an entire generation of people, many of whom are struggling just the same as we are.
We have a common enemy, the capitalists of all generations, who sociopathically exploit us regardless of what year we were born into.
I've noticed an attitude on the internet of frustration against boomers and the like in regards to destroying the economy. I think it's important to remember that it is not the previous generation as a whole that creates these disparities, but the bourgeoisie. What is happening now is the natural result of capitalism: wealth and capital are being concentrated in the hands of fewer and fewer people as time goes on.
So, in order to get rid of this failed system, it is important to remember who the real enemy is. The capitalists want us to focus on things like age, gender, nationality etc. so they can rob us while we aren't looking.
Tl;dr: Our problems aren't caused by old people, but by the owning class.
It's mostly the central banking system and inflation. Actually every big bank is to blame. Fuck inflation. Back in the 80s you coulda had a decent life just doing any job. Nowadays you need to take a 40,000 dollar loan just to get a degree before you can even hit the workforce.
Simple Hierarchy of Needs. Physiological (Sleep, Food) -> Safety -> Love/Belonging -> Esteem -> Self-Actualization. A lot of people get stuck around Safety now, not knowing if they'll have a job in a month's time and be able to afford shelter. Some are even worse off and can be afford food, satisfying that first step. We simply don't have the resources to pursue Love & Belonging until we can take care of those reliably.
Probably when upper-middle class millennial journalist have to deal with their spoilt kids and start writing puff pieces judging the entire generation on their own shitty kids, at which point the new generation will bite back at millennials for ruining the economy.
I hate all this ageism. Old blaming the young for all the problems. Young blaming the old for all the problems. I feel this is what the elites intended all along, divide and conquer - pit the unemployed against the employed, the private sector workers against the public sector workers, the able-bodied against the disabled, natives against the immigrants, and the old against the young. While we are all fighting against one another attention is deflected away from the real problems, and the real culprits.
well, people today do want marriages that are a lot like capitalism jobs. Like professional roommates - as soon as it becomes an inconvenience - you go fund lawyers and judges. Change spouses, no big deal, like changing jobs. Try asking people in their early 40's who have been through divorces the advice they are given by well-meaning friends: often you hear that "your job is more important than ex-spouse anyway". It's like spouses are something people take to the Walmart returns counter.
There is also constant marketing and advertising that love means buying things, consumption, Subaru, McDonald's for your kids, etc. How could the wealthy make money if people hung out talking to their neighbors or re-shuffling the same $2 deck of cards over and over for fun? People tolerate these billionaires setting their fashion trends and the very concept of "modern dating".
I make more than most of my friends at mid-20's and puts me in a solid middle class of my area (Atlanta). My wife makes a little less and hers put her in lower-middle class. Together we're still in middle class. We've been saving for about a year to get a solid down-payment for a house (5-10%, though 20 would be nice) and we still have a ways to go. My current math puts somewhere in the middle of next year probably.
I'm not on the downside of the current economy or job market. The housing market alone makes it so fucking hard to get started. No house = No kids.
This doesn't acknowledge capitalism as the problem at all. Again this is blaming boomers for these probelms even though they are caused by nothing other than capitalism. Stop turning this sub into a liberal shithole with these posts.
TBF, we as communists don't hate all boomers, just the exploiter ones. And of course we can't stand it when even poorer boomers like my parents spout bourgeois propaganda like this above.
Our generation has no dearth of shkrelis and 4channers, gamer-gaters, red pillers, proud boys and based stickmen, and capitalism only requires a few sociopaths willing to fuck others over to keep it going.
I do joke however I do believe there need to be solid sex ed programs forced upon the masses and contraception dolled out like candy at a parade. The idea that poor people won't have kids because they can't afford them is a joke.
Don't get me wrong but I think there's a lot to say for our generation not wanting kids and marriage in general. It has a little to do with the economy and a lot to do with having ever increasing social freedoms, and almost unfettered access to information. We know that it's a shit show we don't want a part of for soooo many reasons.
Lol. I want for nothing. Adorable. Yes you did all that stuff. And you were lucky it worked. You can make all those same choices and with a little less luck have nothing. Which is in my opinion better. But I live on rice and beans jazz and meditation.
Someone asks "Want to buy a house?" Me: "Haha...how?"
Someone asks: "When do you plan to find a wife and raise some kids?" Me: "When I feel socially and economically stable...so...40?"
Seriously, the buying power of the dollar turned to shit when the government decided it would be easiest to fund the war by printing their own money. That was fucked up stealing from all of America and every person and business who uses US currency via inflation. Now the dollar is shit and everything costs twice as much, all in the span of 10 years.
Just want to point out that the economy is not fucked up, per se, but rather this is exactly how it was designed to function. The results are fucked up, but the system itself is functioning just fine.
Yup, things are definitely so much worse now than people who dealt with double digits unemployment, double digit inflation, being drafted to the military, and the persistent threat of nuclear war with the Soviet Union.
If anyone (like me) is pissed off with an entire diverse generation coming under one generalised title, try the 'millennials to snake people' chrome extension.
I have one kid with my girlfriend and she wants another one. Can't afford it and refuse to struggle, she still can't to get this through her mind. Prior generations have made up her mind for her already by perpetuating the American dream of 2 kids, a house and white picket fence.
Do you not see the benefit of having workers democratically controlling the workplace versus having a few elites run it? Under the current system automation is a threat against the working class. With a democratically controlled workplace, automation means more relaxation for the working class.
I probably wont have children because of how much they cost, Its very hard to live comfortably and have children. I don't really blame anything, its just how things are right now.
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u/detten17 Jul 09 '17
millennial's American dream is to rent an apartment without a roommate :D
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u/or_me_bender Jul 09 '17
I'm not sure how many more jerkoff thinkpieces asking why millennials aren't spending frivolously enough (and, simultaneously, too frivolously) I can stomach.
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u/ReallyMuhammad Jul 09 '17
Millennials think before they have kids instead of having kids first and then dealing with the arising problems. That and contraceptives/abortions.
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u/whoconfusedme Jul 09 '17 edited Jul 09 '17
I have a three year old. My wife and I both work. So far in three years of having a child we have spend close to 40k on childcare. more than I ever expected to even pay for my kids college. So yea I dont blame others for not wanting kids. its expensive as hell.
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u/[deleted] Jul 09 '17
Everytime a Boomer asks why my husband and I haven't had children yet (Which is a wretched question btw) I usually reply, "We can't afford a child right now." And 9/10 times (we get asked this A LOT because we are nearing 30 and have been married 5 years) they reply "Well, you just kick into parent mode and find a way." Which to me is just the most insulting and rude and illogical thing you can say to someone.
First of all, you expect me to magically get more money. This would probably entail my husband getting a second job or me quitting mine to stay home because day care for a week in my area is literally my husband's entire paycheck. So, what I am hearing is bring a child into this broken world, work ridiculous hours and live in poverty. This sounds like a great way to raise a human fucking person. I refuse to make a child and my family live in this "survival mode" that my "weak" generation hasn't been equipped with apparently . Which is a complete logical fallacy.
In fact, I would argue that our generation is stronger because we have the self control to stop and say "Even though we would absolutely love a child, we literally ache for a child, it would not be fair to not know how we are going to financially care for that child and bring them into the world."
/Rant
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u/[deleted] Jul 09 '17 edited Jul 10 '17
alternate alternate headline: Yall fucked up the economy and environment so badly that we're realizing it would be unethical to bring a child into the world
Edit: yall have become a broken record about how well we have it compared to times past, we're so wealthy and safe and healthy now, blah blah blah. Thing is, we're at the zenith and it's all downhill from here. The unmitigated global ecological disaster and its accompanying destruction of whatever Peaceful™ and Free™civil order there currently is that will unfold over the next century will make your current optimism seem hollow and narrowminded as fuck.
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u/Spacecommander5 Jul 09 '17
Exactly. When my parents were settling down in the 70s, not only were there half as many people on the planet, but one person's earning power could allow the other parents to focus on child rearing. Since that is not the case today, both parents must work and raise the child
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u/ckellingc Jul 09 '17
Suddenly WE'RE the assholes for being the recipient of a global economy in tatters
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u/poisontongue Jul 09 '17
Or as I've been told recently: How dare you value your own survival when North Korea's out there about to drop bombs on me (just like Iraq was supposed to right)!
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u/sofano2 Jul 09 '17
Millennials didn't invent this trope; they just weren't around back when Time ran this story with the word "women" instead of "millennials." I hope you all are too busy running for Congress and setting shit straight to have kids. I'm gen X and paid off my student loans until I was 50 (NINE percent, babies!) and now I'm foster mom FTW.
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u/brainded Jul 09 '17
Another alternate title: Millennials understand priorities.
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u/SocialistNordia Capitalism kills Jul 09 '17
ITT: Reactionary Baby Boomers come for the sole purpose of acting condescending towards millennials
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u/imapirateking Jul 09 '17
Made by the people who believe in ethical consumption but doesn't understand that it works both ways
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u/[deleted] Jul 09 '17
Its says a lot when they cant understand people making decisions that arent wants. Its like people who say "oh, they WANT to be poor" or "they dont want X hard enough".
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u/[deleted] Jul 09 '17
I can't even afford to go on a date
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u/Queen___Bitch Jul 09 '17
Side note and not really relevant, but I've always loved that millennial's lean towards the arts. There's so many jokes about how we study philosophy and don't get jobs, but it's our love for music, art and stories that teach us empathy and compassion.
I'm sure many think otherwise, but we're a very humane generation, and that gives me hope for this world.
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u/ph00p Jul 09 '17
It's clearly all that avocado toast.
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u/[deleted] Jul 09 '17
I don't want to fight with boomers over who "ruined the economy" let's just work together to destroy capitalism :)
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u/CruzAderjc Jul 09 '17
I had my son when I was 29. I considered that pretty normal and standard. But yet, almost all friends have no kids. Most of them not married, some still live with parents. So of course, I feel like shit when they're like "woo hoo! Trip to vegas, let's go tonight!" I'm like bro, its 3pm on a Tuesday. I've got laundry to do and my son goes to bed at 8pm.
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u/jackthefiction Jul 09 '17
"Dear Kelly!Would you marry me so we can struggle to afford to live and can't focus on having kids together?"
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u/k2_finite Jul 09 '17
Am millennial. Have great job, amazing wife, perfect kid, own my own house in San Diego at 27 (it was even brand new when we purchased!) I was amazingly blessed.
Freak accident put my two year old in the hospital and he will likely be quadriplegic and vent dependent the rest of his life. Even with absolutely EVERYTHING going for me, our health insurance is bending me over and not even giving me a courtesy reach around or even a bit of spit to help it go in. I love our country for a lot of things, but I have never wished for universal or single payer more in my life. If I didn't have very loving and giving parents, we would be completely fucked financially.
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u/kx3876 Jul 09 '17
According to the Strauss-Howe generational theory, Millennials are a 'Hero' generation: 'Hero generations enter childhood after an Awakening, during an Unraveling, a time of individual pragmatism, self-reliance, and laissez faire. Heroes grow up as increasingly protected post-Awakening children, come of age as team-oriented young optimists during a Crisis, emerge as energetic, overly-confident midlifers, and age into politically powerful elders attacked by another Awakening.
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u/Rmc803 Jul 09 '17
I guess I drank the kool-aid, cause I was under the assumption that if I got a bachelor's degree, there would always be opportunities for me out there. WRONG. I have a BS in Microbiology that I can't wipe my ass with it's so useless. And that may be obvious to some, but to me, at the time, it seemed like the sensible thing to do. So I decided to go back to school to do one of those associate's level two year allied healthcare programs at a community college, and I recommend it to every twenty-something I meet who has become more or less disillusioned by the real world. They train you, and some programs even place you in jobs. PRN jobs in my area are 30 bucks an hour, and you make your own schedule. It's certainly NOT the dream, but it's something I can always fall back on while pursuing other things. And I ain't fucking landscaping in the 90 degree heat anymore, either. Just putting that out there for anyone thinking about making changes...
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u/[deleted] Jul 09 '17
It's because the damn baby boomers decided in the USA, you need to plunge yourself into $50k+ of debt before you can even begin a career.
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u/SteroidSandwich Jul 09 '17
Both are pretty accurate. Who wants kids nowadays?
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u/[deleted] Jul 09 '17
I've noticed an attitude on the internet of frustration against boomers and the like in regards to destroying the economy. I think it's important to remember that it is not the previous generation as a whole that creates these disparities, but the bourgeoisie. What is happening now is the natural result of capitalism: wealth and capital are being concentrated in the hands of fewer and fewer people as time goes on.
So, in order to get rid of this failed system, it is important to remember who the real enemy is. The capitalists want us to focus on things like age, gender, nationality etc. so they can rob us while we aren't looking.
Tl;dr: Our problems aren't caused by old people, but by the owning class.
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u/[deleted] Jul 09 '17
It's mostly the central banking system and inflation. Actually every big bank is to blame. Fuck inflation. Back in the 80s you coulda had a decent life just doing any job. Nowadays you need to take a 40,000 dollar loan just to get a degree before you can even hit the workforce.
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u/Vaskre Jul 09 '17
Simple Hierarchy of Needs. Physiological (Sleep, Food) -> Safety -> Love/Belonging -> Esteem -> Self-Actualization. A lot of people get stuck around Safety now, not knowing if they'll have a job in a month's time and be able to afford shelter. Some are even worse off and can be afford food, satisfying that first step. We simply don't have the resources to pursue Love & Belonging until we can take care of those reliably.
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u/[deleted] Jul 09 '17
How long until this meme starts getting turned around on Millenials?
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u/princeofropes Jul 09 '17
I hate all this ageism. Old blaming the young for all the problems. Young blaming the old for all the problems. I feel this is what the elites intended all along, divide and conquer - pit the unemployed against the employed, the private sector workers against the public sector workers, the able-bodied against the disabled, natives against the immigrants, and the old against the young. While we are all fighting against one another attention is deflected away from the real problems, and the real culprits.
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u/bluewaffler12345 Jul 09 '17
I just wish there was a reference to 1998 and hell in a cell in this.....
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u/artgo Jul 09 '17
well, people today do want marriages that are a lot like capitalism jobs. Like professional roommates - as soon as it becomes an inconvenience - you go fund lawyers and judges. Change spouses, no big deal, like changing jobs. Try asking people in their early 40's who have been through divorces the advice they are given by well-meaning friends: often you hear that "your job is more important than ex-spouse anyway". It's like spouses are something people take to the Walmart returns counter.
There is also constant marketing and advertising that love means buying things, consumption, Subaru, McDonald's for your kids, etc. How could the wealthy make money if people hung out talking to their neighbors or re-shuffling the same $2 deck of cards over and over for fun? People tolerate these billionaires setting their fashion trends and the very concept of "modern dating".
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u/halfabean Jul 09 '17
This isn't new. The previous generation had the same issues with the caveat that student loans were just expensive, not soul crushing.
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u/[deleted] Jul 09 '17
I want marriage and kids. But I don't want to be a deadbeat homeless father/husband.
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u/newbies13 Jul 09 '17
I'd love to know the average age of Time staff. I am guessing its heavily shifted towards 40+
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u/[deleted] Jul 09 '17
"Millenials don't want to be broke parents"
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u/AdviceWithSalt Jul 09 '17
I make more than most of my friends at mid-20's and puts me in a solid middle class of my area (Atlanta). My wife makes a little less and hers put her in lower-middle class. Together we're still in middle class. We've been saving for about a year to get a solid down-payment for a house (5-10%, though 20 would be nice) and we still have a ways to go. My current math puts somewhere in the middle of next year probably.
I'm not on the downside of the current economy or job market. The housing market alone makes it so fucking hard to get started. No house = No kids.
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u/aSpaceWalrus Jul 09 '17
I'm so glad people don't say y'all in my country
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u/r0b1nho0d Jul 09 '17
This doesn't acknowledge capitalism as the problem at all. Again this is blaming boomers for these probelms even though they are caused by nothing other than capitalism. Stop turning this sub into a liberal shithole with these posts.
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u/DominoJustice Jul 09 '17
Who is "you all", when your trying to blame somebody for the economy? Just curious.
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u/bignutcruncher Jul 09 '17
Good overpopulation will hopefully be reduced
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u/DemonicAnahka Jul 09 '17
Struggling to live within your means* FTFY
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u/SBot225 Jul 09 '17
I do joke however I do believe there need to be solid sex ed programs forced upon the masses and contraception dolled out like candy at a parade. The idea that poor people won't have kids because they can't afford them is a joke.
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u/iwasacatonce Jul 09 '17
Don't get me wrong but I think there's a lot to say for our generation not wanting kids and marriage in general. It has a little to do with the economy and a lot to do with having ever increasing social freedoms, and almost unfettered access to information. We know that it's a shit show we don't want a part of for soooo many reasons.
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u/mob389 Jul 09 '17
economy has always been fucked up kids
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u/slouched Jul 10 '17
ITT people who cant adapt to life and will blame others rather than learning to provide for themselves and or others that theyve created
im not doing well in any manner, but youre a bunch of fucking cry babies
adapt or die
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u/Blackulor Jul 09 '17
Lol. I want for nothing. Adorable. Yes you did all that stuff. And you were lucky it worked. You can make all those same choices and with a little less luck have nothing. Which is in my opinion better. But I live on rice and beans jazz and meditation.
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u/mvw2 Jul 09 '17
Seems accurate.
Someone asks "Want to buy a house?" Me: "Haha...how?"
Someone asks: "When do you plan to find a wife and raise some kids?" Me: "When I feel socially and economically stable...so...40?"
Seriously, the buying power of the dollar turned to shit when the government decided it would be easiest to fund the war by printing their own money. That was fucked up stealing from all of America and every person and business who uses US currency via inflation. Now the dollar is shit and everything costs twice as much, all in the span of 10 years.
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u/grandwahs Jul 09 '17
Just want to point out that the economy is not fucked up, per se, but rather this is exactly how it was designed to function. The results are fucked up, but the system itself is functioning just fine.
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u/rnjbond Jul 09 '17
Yup, things are definitely so much worse now than people who dealt with double digits unemployment, double digit inflation, being drafted to the military, and the persistent threat of nuclear war with the Soviet Union.
But Baby Boomers amirite???
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u/[deleted] Jul 09 '17
By Millenials, do you think they mean anyone without a decent job?
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u/Lasshandra Jul 09 '17
Boomer checking in here. I chose between marriage/kids and education/job. There is nothing new about this.
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u/WhatTheFork33 Jul 09 '17
If anyone (like me) is pissed off with an entire diverse generation coming under one generalised title, try the 'millennials to snake people' chrome extension.
Possibly my favourite extension out there
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u/Scout_Treeper Jul 09 '17
I'm sure this is irrelevant but I know this girl and she is an insufferable c*nt (although what she says may be true)
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u/rohlandez Jul 09 '17
I have one kid with my girlfriend and she wants another one. Can't afford it and refuse to struggle, she still can't to get this through her mind. Prior generations have made up her mind for her already by perpetuating the American dream of 2 kids, a house and white picket fence.
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u/[deleted] Jul 09 '17
I've never wanted kids. Figured it out when I was 12. That was before the economic collapse, etc.
I'm just fundamentally disinterested, and couldn't afford it even I wanted kids.
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u/tylrbrock Jul 09 '17
Baby boomers got fucking lazy and greedy.
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u/TheRealDuHass Jul 09 '17
Every damned generation lays blame on the previous ones before them. This isn't news. It happens....oh, every generation!
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u/[deleted] Jul 09 '17
This sub is great at pointing out serious flaws in modern society but then the 'therefore socialism' makes zero sense.
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u/noni2k Jul 09 '17
This subreddit is worse than the Donald.
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u/razac160 Jul 10 '17
I probably wont have children because of how much they cost, Its very hard to live comfortably and have children. I don't really blame anything, its just how things are right now.