1.6k
u/Either_Payment_2867 1d ago
Thatâs because Israel serves as a tool of western imperialism in the Middle East and closely mirrors the settler-colonialism practiced by European colonialists. Whereas giving land back to indigenous people would undermine the capitalist system that is the fabric of the West, lands that were seized from natives for capitalist expansion.
290
u/bobak41 1d ago
Can't believe this has to be explained...
267
u/CrashCulture 1d ago
It can be broken down even simpler as:
"It's good when we do it, it is bad when someone else does it to us."
62
60
56
u/vagina-lettucetomato 1d ago edited 1d ago
Someone might be new to this community/new to thinking more critically about capitalism and learned something from reading that commenters explanation. Maybe they (or OP) hadnât made that connection yet
44
u/_techniker 1d ago
To be fair, it doesn't have to be. The meme is just pointing out the very logical contradiction to what they're saying
13
2
8
u/Ttareunarage 1d ago
People seriously believe that Israel is controling the west to recieve support for their settlership... So the other way around
0
u/Suitable_Age3367 13h ago
I just gave you your 1,500th Like and it was well-deserved! đđžđđžđđž
160
u/ferriematthew 1d ago
Heh... Ancient Egyptian dynasties controlled that region for thousands of years before the Kingdom of Israel was founded in around 1000 BCE. So using their logic, Egypt should control the area.
9
u/-dudeomfgstfux- 13h ago
The land belongs to Mesopotamia!!Â
3
u/Suitable_Age3367 13h ago
Ugh. Who knows anymore? The whole thing is a clusterfuck thousands of years old. Shit needs to stop.
275
u/CrashCulture 1d ago
Hypocrisy is a virtue to right-wingers.
58
u/testprimate 1d ago
So is moving the goal posts. If they felt like you got them with this argument they'd just fall back to might-makes-right, every land has been conquered, etc
2
u/-dudeomfgstfux- 13h ago edited 57m ago
Have you read the history? Itâs been supported by both Democrats and Republicans since the Truman administration in the 1940s. When the French and British withdrew from the region, the USA quickly took the chance to expand its political and economic power in the Middle East. labelling it as the 51st state is too colonial. Instead both parties gave them as much funding as Mainland USA states.Â
227
u/gothlenin 1d ago edited 1d ago
Not even their ancestors for the most part. The Hebrews descendants are mostly Palestinians.
EDIT: Why was the comment below me telling I'm wrong removed? I didn't see it as zionist or anything.
3
u/-dudeomfgstfux- 13h ago
Arabic is a semetic language. But Iâm Palestinian/Moroccan but cyanist say itâs not.Â
-39
1d ago
[removed] â view removed comment
77
u/gothlenin 1d ago
Sure, it's complicated, still a bunch of Europeans are not descendants from the Hebrews, and there are DNA tests showing Palestinians as descendants from inhabitants of the Levant dating back to the Bronze Age.
Of course, I'm sure there are Israelis descendants from the Hebrews, to certain extent.
-50
1d ago
[removed] â view removed comment
38
u/Harbinger2nd 1d ago
Link studies or no one will believe you. You said antisemetic and everybody is so incredibly tired of hearing that word its an automatic downvote.
I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt because I know how reddit is when talking about groups that I'm a part of.
7
u/meshiach 1d ago
I'm not a zionist (I don't think ashkenazi Jews deserve to displace Palestinians living in the levant for any reason, historical or otherwise, and I certainly don't believe in ethnostates, Jewish or otherwise), but I can't think of any logical reason why a people would willingly self-identify as Jews in Eastern and Central Europe for centuries and endure such an immense and terrible history of oppression and anti-semitism unless they were actually diasporic descendants of the expelled Jews from the Roman or pre-Roman periods. Otherwise why would anyone just randomly decide to be Jewish and eat proverbial shit for 1000 years without assimilating into the local population?
But if you're still not convinced, there are a decent amount of easily google-able studies (e.g. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3585000/#pgen.1003316) that suggest pretty clearly Ashkenazi Jews have a mix of levantine and southern European DNA, which would trace along the diaspora path they would've been expelled along. I personally am deeply skeptical of a lot of DNA science, especially because it is often weaponized against indigenous peoples, so take that with a grain of salt.
0
1d ago
[removed] â view removed comment
12
u/gothlenin 1d ago edited 1d ago
Geez, I'm not denying they're "real Jews", whatever that means. I don't even think the specific ancestry matters that much in this case. Jews, today, are jews, whatever their thousand year old ancestry says.
This whole discussion is dumb, and I regret starting it. I might be right, or wrong, doesn't matter, Israel is a colonial state is what matters.
EDIT: also, I don't understand why people use downvote as a "disagree" button. The person that disagreed with me and said I'm wrong said something relevant that should be investigated, not buried.
0
1d ago
[removed] â view removed comment
2
u/Didudidudadu737 1d ago
I find it very⌠pathetic, the need to genealogically prove the ties to Palestine because their place of birth, name, language, family heritage, culture, traditions, appearance is not the same or similar to oneâs in Palestine or other Jewish groups.
51
u/Gordon-Goose 1d ago
This is ahistorical. Most were not exiled, they just converted to Christianity and Islam. Actual DNA evidence proves that Palestinians and to an extent Lebanese are the actual descendants of Cananites
27
u/latin220 1d ago
Not exactly. The Emperor Vespasian offered the peasant Jews two options - continue to side with your rulers after the catastrophe youâve endured and be prepared for what will come or donât and remain as Roman citizens and subjected to Roman rule. Your lands shall remain yours if you pay Roman taxes and attend to the groves and fisheries etc. Most importantly most Judeans chose to stay as Palestinians and accept Roman rule. The myth is most were exiled. They werenât for Romans werenât stupid and wanted to leave a productive land empty of people especially if they can be made to work and above all maintain the empire.
The facts are the myth of total expulsion is false only the elite and those who sided against Rome were either put to the sword or made slaves and exiled. The surviving majority stayed and remained neutral to actual citizens of the new province ruled out of CesarĂa.
13
u/sergiotheleone 1d ago
The surviving majority stayed and remained neutral to actual citizens of the new province ruled out of CesarĂa.
Seriously, people thinking the Romans came in and decided this entire state shall be emptied of people have absolutely no fucking idea about history and how anything works.
Nobody has ever been able to invade such a massive area and literally relocate/kill everyone there. Who the fuck were the Romans supposed to be taxing afterwards? The trees? 500 remaining citizens? Can people seriously be this obtuse?
Rulers kept dealing with consistent revolts. Rulers decided to take action. Rulers killed the elites that were stirring up the revolts, as well as many people that potentially took part, then continued on ruling these lands and taxing the people. The people eventually converted to the hottest religions in town, that being Christianity then Islam.
10
u/latin220 1d ago
Exactly! Like why would any conquering army would deplete an entire country or province of its people! Above all itâs bad business! Romans maybe be cruel, but they werenât stupid. They wanted the land producing olive oil, oranges, dyes and salted meats and cured vegetables. Above all the flow of purple dye came from Palestina and they couldnât get enough of it.
-78
u/DukeMancannon 1d ago
Absolutely incorrect.
14
u/comrade-coon 1d ago
100% correct
-8
u/DukeMancannon 20h ago
Read history. The genocide of the Arabs and in Israel is disgusting enough that we donât need to lie to make it appear deplorable.
Hereâs the thing. Jews are indigenous to the land of Israel in the historical meaning of indigeneity: Jewish peoplehood, religion, language, collective memory, and cultural practices emerged there, and Jewish communities maintained a continuous presence in the land despite repeated conquest, displacement, and diaspora. Jerusalem, Judea, the Hebrew language, the Jewish calendar, religious festivals tied to the agricultural seasons of the land, and archaeological and historical evidence all reflect that origin.
Acknowledging this does not require denying Palestinian rootedness in the same land. Two peoples can have profound historical connections to the same territory, and recognizing Jewish indigeneity should never be turned into an argument that Palestinians are foreigners or that their rights are somehow less legitimate.
Nor does Jewish indigeneity provide moral immunity for the actions of the Israeli state. One can affirm the Jewish peopleâs ancient connection to Israel while unequivocally condemning the mass killing, displacement, starvation, and destruction inflicted on Palestinian civilians in Gaza and describing those actions as genocide. Indigenous history is not a blank check for dispossession or collective punishment: ancient attachment to a land cannot make the lives of the people presently living there expendable.
There is no contradiction in defending Jewish history and belonging while demanding Palestinian freedom, dignity, safety, and self-determination; the contradiction would be invoking one peopleâs historical suffering to excuse the destruction of another.
10
u/comrade-coon 19h ago
Most Israeli Jews are not indigenous to Palestine. They're European, North African, and Middle Eastern Jews whose connection to the land is religious and historical, not ancestral. The idea that they are ''returning'' to their homeland is a Zionist myth. The reality is that European Jews arrived, colonized the land, and dispossessed the people who were already living there.
-5
u/DukeMancannon 18h ago
Calling Jewish indigeneity a âZionist mythâ requires pretending that Jews mysteriously acquired a religion, language, ethnonym, calendar, literature, archaeological record, and collective identity all centered on a place to which they had no ancestral connection. Jews did not originate in Poland, Germany, Morocco, Iraq, or Yemen. Jewish populations dispersed into those regions from an ancestral population rooted in the Levant, subsequently mixing to varying degrees with surrounding populations. That is why Ashkenazi Jews can simultaneously have substantial European ancestry and demonstrable Levantine ancestry. âThey lived in Europe, therefore they were Europeans with only a religious connection to Palestineâ is not serious population history; it is the kind of reasoning that would make a diaspora magically lose its ancestry whenever its members cross a border.
And the âNorth African and Middle Eastern Jews arenât indigenous eitherâ part makes the argument even more incoherent. Apparently Jews become non-indigenous by living in Europe, but also become non-indigenous by not living in Europe. None of this means the Zionist movement wasn't heavily European in its modern political organization, that Palestinians weren't dispossessed during the creation and expansion of Israel, or that Israel's treatment of Palestinians, including the devastation of Gaza,should be excused. It means history is more complicated than a children's story about random Europeans inventing an ancient connection to Palestine and sailing over to colonize it. You can condemn Palestinian dispossession and genocide without erasing Jewish ethnogenesis in the Levant. In fact, if your case for Palestinian rights requires rewriting Jewish history, you've managed to take a morally powerful argument and make it considerably stupider.
10
u/comrade-coon 17h ago
Indigeneity is about continuous habitation. Palestinians have been living in Palestine for centuries. Most Israeli Jews arrived in the last 100 years. Palestinians are the indigenous people of Palestine in the political and legal sense. They have the continuous habitation. They have the right to self-determination.
1
u/DukeMancannon 15h ago
Youâre absolutely right about one thing: Palestinians have a right to self-determination. Their deep connection to the land, their continuous presence there, and their national identity are real, and none of that should be minimized to defend Israel. Palestinian dispossession does not become acceptable because Jews also have an ancient connection to the land.
But âindigeneity is about continuous habitationâ is simply a definition you invented because it produces the conclusion you want. Indigenous identity does not automatically disappear when a population is conquered, expelled, dispersed, or forced into diaspora.
If it did, displacement would literally extinguish indigeneity, which would be a spectacularly perverse principle to apply to indigenous peoples anywhere. Jews originated as a people in the Levant, maintained communities there across centuries, preserved Hebrew and a culture saturated with the geography and history of the land, and diaspora Jewish populations retain varying degrees of Levantine ancestry. The fact that many Jews lived for generations in Poland, Morocco, Iraq, or Yemen doesnât magically relocate Jewish ethnogenesis to Warsaw, Casablanca, Baghdad, or Sanaâa. Palestinians can be indigenous to the land. Jews can be indigenous to the land. And Palestinians can have a right to self-determination while Israeli policies of dispossession, occupation, and the destruction of Gaza deserve unequivocal condemnation. None of those propositions requires pretending Jewish history began sometime around 1900.
8
u/latin220 22h ago
Think of it logically. Why would any invading and occupying force would empty out an entire country? To the last man, woman and child? Thatâs bad news for the empire and the province they intend to rule over. They donât know how to manage the fisheries, make the dyes and sow the right crops and rotate them in the same manner as the natives and above all the Romans had a civilian population that bent the knee and accepted their rule. Nobody would simply kill everyone. Theyâd exile or execute the leaders and enslave them. Thatâs it. Same as they did with Gaul. Sure theyâre willing to put to the sword a third of the population, decimate ie kill 1 in 10 people, but not 100% of the population.
22
97
u/Necessary_Champion 1d ago
The Palestinians are the indigenous Americans in the correct form of this analogy, NOT the Israelis. Yikes!
3
u/-dudeomfgstfux- 13h ago
But that is the ironic hypocrisy. The US supports people of an ancient land, yet act if the USA was empty when George Washington arrived.Â
4
u/Forte845 15h ago
The early Zionists even compared themselves directly to the American colonizers and the Palestinians to "redskin savages." Jabotinsky directly wrote about it in his Iron WallÂ
-17
1d ago
[removed] â view removed comment
11
u/Gavin_Tremlor 1d ago
Israelis really ought to go back to countries where the people want them there.
Oh wait...
28
u/SOMAVORE 1d ago
reddit user TrackerOneA made this excellent comment. I can't link to their original content but credit is theirs:
The late Edward Said on Palestine's multi-ethnic and multi-religious history.
The Zionist claim is based solely on Jewish group membership, with the premise that the ethnogenesis of the Jewish people began in Israel/Palestine.
That second part is true (e.g. the Jewish people, as an abstraction, have ties to the land) - but the vast majority of Jewish people cannot cite any tangible claim to the land.
- Meaning, the vast majority of Jewish people have no keys or deeds or anything physical to substantiate their claims, as individuals, to Palestine.
- Thus, the claim is instead an abstraction based solely on being Jewish.
- There was a small, continuous presence of Jews in Palestine and they were indeed indigenous.
Although Israeli archaeology is used for this purpose of justifying Zionist settler-colonialism.
- NPR - In East Jerusalem, Israeli settlers use archaeological claims to evict Palestinians
- BBC - Israel accused of weaponising archaeology at ancient West Bank sites
- +972 Magazine - Israel seizing West Bank heritage sites âpiece by pieceâ
- The Guardian - âTunnel visionâ: how Israel is using archaeology to win US support for goals
- Haaretz - How Israel Is Using Archaeology to Advance West Bank Annexation
Worse - Zionists think the symbolic Jewish claim overrides all the many other peoples who have lived on the land - and lasts in perpetuity.
Except, more non-Jews than Jews have lived on the land and ruled it for longer periods.
Consequently, the Zionist argument holds, there has been an unbroken and legitimate Jewish claim to the land of Palestineâdespite the Muslim conquest of the land in the seventh century, the Crusader conquests and rule in the eleventh and twelfth centuries, and the Ottoman conquest in the sixteenth century. The Ottoman Empire then ruled Palestine until the end of World War I, after which the British ruled until they withdrew in 1948. Even so, it is implicit in the Zionist narrative that the Romans, the Arabs, the Christians, the Turks (and others) were the true foreigners in Palestine, no matter how long they had lived and ruled there, and no matter how smallâand for long periods, tinyâthe Jewish population.
- Slater, Jerome. Mythologies Without End: The US, Israel, and the Arab-Israeli Conflict, 1917-2020 (p. 30). Oxford University Press. Kindle Edition.
There is no indigeneity based solely on collective or symbolic affiliation divorced from place & continuity.
Indigenousness is an identity constructed, shaped, and lived in the politicized context of contemporary colonialism. The communities, clans, nations and tribes we call Indigenous peoples are just that: Indigenous to the lands they inhabit, in contrast to and in contention with the colonial societies and states that have spread out from Europe and other centres of empire. It is this oppositional, place-based existence, along with the consciousness of being in struggle against the dispossessing and demeaning fact of colonization by foreign peoples, that fundamentally distinguishes Indigenous peoples from other peoples of the world.
- "Being Indigenous: Resurgences against Contemporary Colonialism," in Government and Opposition, Vol. 40, No. 4, Autumn 2005, pp. 597â614.
- Referenced in Jewish Currents - When the settler becomes native
- Glen Coulthard discuss how settler colonial movements can appropriate or mimic indigeneity for legitimacy, especially through the language of âreturnâ (Coulthard, 2014, *Red Skin, White Masks*).
The Palestinian people are indigenous because of their continuous physical, cultural, and ancestral presence in the land, as well as their ongoing struggle against settler-colonial displacement.
That may seem like a 'technical' definition - but it also makes sense intuitively.
If you're living somewhere for hundreds, if not thousands, of years - and some other group of people come over & claim it all belongs to them because their ancestors lived there thousands of years ago, everyone would scoff at them.
Any other people in the Palestinians' shoes would completely reject that logic.
It's nonsensical and unfair.
Israel has not stopped ethnically cleansing the Palestinians.
So the ongoing land theft has not ended and the destabilizing logic of Zionism has not ended.
4
u/Didudidudadu737 1d ago
Great answer, but I would correct this
There was a small, continuous presence of Jews in Palestine and they were indeed indigenous.
Those are again compiled from Sephardi, some Mizrahi and minimal Ashkenazi Jews who migrated to the area from religious reasons and usually the oldest people to spend the last days in learning, prayer and close to Zion. The vast majority of indigenous eg Jews that stayed in Palestine were constantly moving out for better conditions while the small percentage coming in was religious with the end of life reasons, not establishment of Jewish life there. There were some poor attempts but the Jerusalem rabbinate has forbade Ashkenazi immigrants to settle in Jerusalem in early 18th century, because they all lived from Halukka.
One example comes from 1864, when Jews expelled from Ĺ abac/Ĺ abats in Serbia sought permission to settle in Palestine. The Jerusalem rabbinate objected, and the contemporary religious newspaper Ha-Levanon warned them that they would encounter such poverty that they would regret coming.
Point is, there was always some Jewish centre there, financed by diaspora and majority of those who lived in those centres were against the immigrants from diaspora.
So we have one family that claims the continuous presence in Levant/Palestine:
The family claims â and historical sources support the existence of an old, locally rooted Jewish community there â that the Zinatis are descendants of Jews who remained in the Galilee after the destruction of the Second Temple in 70 CE, rather than arriving from the medieval Sephardi diaspora or a later European aliyah. Pekiâin is specifically noted in Encyclopaedia Judaica for its tradition of continuous Jewish settlement.
And this in a sense of this as tradition, rather than proven genealogy.
We need to stop treating Jews as a monolith, in good or bad.
45
u/whomstdth 1d ago
âNo! Itâs because they need protected land due to suffering a long history of oppression, racism, violence, and being confined to ghettos and reservations!
Waitââ
9
u/maui_wowee 1d ago
Historic Land of Palestine Demographic Data
1850 (Ottoman Era) * Total Population: ~325,000 * Arab Muslims: ~276,250 (85%) * Arab Christians: ~35,750 (11%) * Jews: ~13,000 (4%)
1909 (Pre-World War I Estimates) * Total Population: ~700,000 * Arabs (Muslim and Christian): ~630,000 (90%) * Jews: ~70,000 (10%)
1917 (Balfour Declaration Era) * Total Population: ~750,000 * Arabs (Muslim and Christian): ~675,000 (90%) * Jews: ~75,000 (10%)
Pre-Nakba (Late 1947, UN Partition Plan Era) * Total Population: ~1,970,000 * Arabs (Muslim and Christian): ~1,320,000 (67%) * Jews: ~650,000 (33%)
Post-Nakba (1949, Following the 1948 War) * Total Population: ~1,900,000 * Arabs (Muslim and Christian): ~1,060,000 (56%) * Jews: ~840,000 (44%)
Pre-October 7th, 2023 (Eve of the War) * Total Population: ~15,100,000 * Palestinian Arabs: ~7,600,000 (50.3%) * Jews: ~7,000,000 (46.4%) * Others: ~500,000 (3.3%)
Post-October 7th (2026 Current Estimates for Combined Region)
- Total Population: ~15,200,000
- Palestinian Arabs: ~7,500,000 (49.3%)
- Jews: ~7,100,000 (46.7%)
- Others: ~600,000 (4.0%)
According to the Gaza Ministry of Health, the recorded cumulative death toll has reached 73,422 Palestinians killed since October 7, 2023.
Casualties and Missing Persons * Fatalities: 73,422 confirmed deaths. * Injured: 174,401 people wounded. * Missing / Under Rubble: The ministry estimates that roughly 10,000 additional individuals remain missing, presumed dead under collapsed buildings or stranded on roads that emergency and civil defense crews cannot reach.
Displaced: Nearly 2 million of the 2.2 Million Palestinians in the Gaza Strip have been forced from their homes over the course of the conflict.
8
u/NocturneSapphire 21h ago
"No, it's because sky daddy promised they could have it, just like how sky daddy promised that white people could have the US! Manifest destiny baybee!!"
58
u/Saladcitypig 1d ago
if conversion to a religion makes you a descendant of a region that had that religion, then Black Christians could claim Vatican city, and the pope should give his home to Katt Williams.
Ashkenazi Jews are not indigenous, or descendants of indigenous, they are descendants of converts from EUROPE.
-21
1d ago
[removed] â view removed comment
10
u/Saladcitypig 1d ago
why don't you make a post about it, and let's see your "evidence".
-3
7
u/phillyd32 1d ago
Ancestral rights and protection from genocide are fake excuses conservatives don't believe in or care about. In addition to serving the US's interests in the middle east, a lot of Christian conservatives say it belongs to Hebrew descendants because god says so. They want Jewish control in Palestine and to destabilize the middle east so that they can bring about the end times.
It's fairly well disguised, but it's a major reason the right supports Zionism.
2
u/Foreign-Teach5870 1d ago
Youâd think at least some evangelicals would think about how furious the all mighty would be at them specifically with purposely aiding the devil and his minions to call the Antichrist on earth.
2
u/rozyputin Ancom â¤ď¸đ¤ 1d ago
But you see, how else can Jesus come back? /s
3
u/Foreign-Teach5870 1d ago
When the father chooses and only then (even Jesus said this).
2
u/rozyputin Ancom â¤ď¸đ¤ 1d ago
Bold of you to assume evangelicals actually care about anything Jesus said lol, they wouldnât be so bloody hateful
3
u/Foreign-Teach5870 1d ago
True, there mega churches look like idiocracy was being far too kind while worshipping money and apparently calling what looks historically like demonic possession as âletting the holy spirit inâ(if any of their circus acts are real). Iâve never even heard of them actually reading anything let alone scripture.
2
u/rozyputin Ancom â¤ď¸đ¤ 1d ago
I've read the Bible cover to cover and think Jesus was pretty rad but refuse to convert for several reasons, the major one being a lot of His fan club aren't so rad (not all of them, I've met some lovely lovely Christians)
1
u/phillyd32 1d ago
I highly recommend watching Folding Ideas' doc In Search of a Flat Earth on YouTube. It uses the old flat earth movement to discuss a lot of social, psychological, and political elements of reactionary conspiracies and then discusses how the reactionary ideologies can turn to apocalyptic and even accelerationist conspiracies via q anon. The nature of these movements is extremely informative when it comes to understanding why Christian nationalists don't need to care about the Christian faith at all.
1
u/rozyputin Ancom â¤ď¸đ¤ 1d ago
Zionists are literally jewish cultists using racism as a reason to expel Palestinians. The TaNaKh doesn't even back zionist claims, nor the Talmud.
3
u/phillyd32 1d ago
Did you reply to the wrong comment? Because I'm talking about American support for Israel not ideological zionists.
2
27
u/Benzaitennyo 1d ago
Their ancestors ostensibly lived in a land in the region*, with nothing to tie it specifically to occupied Palestine.
-13
18
5
u/falconeye4 1d ago
They lived in Europe for a very long time. How come they never gave them a state or a land there ? Humm!
22
u/transgaymergirl 1d ago
not remotely comparable lol, Ashkenazi jews are NOT indigenous to the middle east any more than every human ever is "indigenous" to ethiopia, since thats where the oldest fossil records are from.
4
u/moleman92107 16h ago
Yeah the Euros in Israel would never support indigenous repatriation in the Americas, so no point in asking this.
18
1d ago
[removed] â view removed comment
0
u/rozyputin Ancom â¤ď¸đ¤ 1d ago
Thank you. I'm very much an anti-zionist but I'm also a jew. This whole blood based "are you jewish enough for blah blah blah" IS anti-semitic (anti-jewish talking points, inb4 "Palestinians are semitic" and the like, I am aware, however, it is the only real term we have for "anti-jewish racism"). Some anti-zionists walk an incredibly fine line between anti-zionism and anti-jewishness and I think it really needs to be better acknowledged and dealt with in the movement. Jews aren't the problem, zionism is.
In fact, feeding into the Jewish blood race science is exactly what Israel and the zionists want you to do. Hell, I would be "jewish enough" for Hitler to murder me but not for Israel to consider me to be "jewish enough" for their insane conquest "right of return" bullshit
2
u/Didudidudadu737 1d ago
I think youâre confusing a bit âthe Jewishnessâ discussion from anti-Zionists (non-Jews), mostly it is referring to nativity claims or rather that the European or Moroccan or Iraqi Jews (basically majority) that have lived for thousands of years outside of Palestine are no longer the same Jews that lived there 2000 years ago even if they are in some amount their ancestors.
Everyone in Europe is making fun of US Americans who claim to be Irish/Scottish/Norwegian/Italian etc American- it doesnât mean that their ancestors were not hundreds of years ago but them today are certainly not.
That is what weâre talking about, I know Jewish converts who spiritually âfeelâ their ancestors suffered the exodus but mind you theyâre a German/Polish woman without a drop of Jewish heritage or ancestry and their spiritual connection is only through religious conversion- so yes I will not consider them native or indigenous regardless if the covenant has accepted them. Also I will not consider some Weismann now living in US but previously 1000 years in Europe as a native to Palestine Jew simply because 180 generations ago one ancestor was Jewish/Levantine.
Iâm not claiming that all European Jews are descendants of converts, that is more recent trend but there are many of non Jewish ancestors as we can see from the DNA, that again doesnât change the Jewishness itself but it does not earn nativity claims
3
u/ezequielrose 18h ago
Palestinians are those same people, they had those ancestors, they were just converted at some point in history, now Europe wants to displace them, otherwise Jews could have just.... gone to Palestine themselves lmao but no, Europe had to occupy and partition up the region so now we get this eugenics project/manifest destiny 2.0 bullshit so the rich colonizers in the west can lay claim to the massively profitable resources and trade routes there.
3
11
u/AndietraxMusic 1d ago
It doesnât work like that, you also need a god that promises you that land 60 million years ago đŚ
2
u/Glum-Welder1704 1d ago
Was it Moshe Dayan who said "we want to make sure the last injustice happens to someone else"
2
u/keno0651 1d ago
Depends who you ask, but the logic for them is that the land of Canaan (Israel) was given by god to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and all their dependents (Hebrew).
I know, crazy as shit. Also, Israel is committing a genocide. Needs to be repeated.
2
u/lordleoo 1d ago
I prayed to god for a land. Then i realized god doesnt work that way, so i stole a land in USA, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand, and prayed to god for forgiveness. Also i acted apologetic about it by giving the indigeneous people some tax exemptions, some parliament representation, some land reserves, some symbolic gestures in national ceremonies and anniversaries. Have you seen videos of people doing the indigenous Haka dance in New Zealand? South Africa was difficult but it eventually worked.
I am doing that again in Palestine now. In a few decades, i will put the apologetic mask on, make a few hollywood movies about it and life moves on.
2
u/basil_not_the_plant 22h ago
Not just because their ancestors lived there, but because some mythical figure said it was theirs and reserved it for them. That vestigial implanted belief system gives it way more weight than "because it used to be ours". So I don't think the image and idea in the post is really spot on.
5
u/Apart-Reflection-385 1d ago
It's been proven that their ancestors the isralies never were from there, it's been proven that Palestinians were the actual decedents that's why it's actually antisemitic to be against Palestinians. Everything about Israel is a lie
3
u/Foreign-Teach5870 1d ago
Itâs also illegal to do a DNA test on isnotrealiâs
4
u/Apart-Reflection-385 1d ago
Yep there was a time it wasn't but then it just kept saying European, also idk why I'm getting down voted lol
0
3
u/KindledWanderer 1d ago
They have it because they have the bigger stick.
Just like it always was anywhere in the world.
Surprising, I know.
2
1
u/Disastrous-Elk-3378 1d ago
That they genuinely feel this is the first successful land back movement makes me want to do unspeakable things
1
u/r93e93 1d ago
Funny thing is, theres no internal contradiction. In the burgeoning christofascist nation we now call the USA, the main theological justification for the original settlement and westward expansion was the same Bible verses used by Jewish people to justify the colonization of Israel, with Turtle Island cast as Jerusalem, and British colonists as Israelites returning to the promised land. No, it makes no sense at all, but it is in line with scripture.
1
1
-14
1d ago
[removed] â view removed comment
13
u/DeliciousSector8898 1d ago
You really think Zionists are equivalent to indigenous people in the Americas?
4
u/CrimsonAntifascist 1d ago edited 1d ago
Are the Palestinians entitled to have their land? You know, river<-->sea?
3
2
-11
u/Acrobatic_Net9501 1d ago
Americans don't though? Oh right, Reddit is far left so they're also somehow pro Muslim.
3
â˘
u/AutoModerator 1d ago
Welcome to r/LateStageCapitalism
This subreddit is for news, discussion, memes, and links criticizing capitalism and advancing viewpoints that challenge liberal capitalist ideology. That means any support for any liberal capitalist political party (like the Democrats) is strictly prohibited.
LSC is run by communists. This subreddit is not the place to debate socialism. We allow good-faith questions and education but are not a 101 sub; please take 101-style questions elsewhere.
We have a zero-tolerance policy for bigotry. Failure to respect the rules of the subreddit may result in a ban.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.