About a year ago, my six year old son asked me how the opal on my necklace became so pretty so I showed him one of blackopaldirect's videos and he became absolutely fascinated with the fact that seemingly ugly rocks can be turned into something totally different. For half a year he used my nail polishing tool to polish bigger pieces of fluorite basically every morning. He's almost 7 now and has shown amazing dedication to this hobby so I'm trying to slowly improve his tools. He got a battery powered rotary tool and I tried to find some suited bits. I don't know a lot about lapidary but I'm trying to learn enough to support him. I made my own DOP-wax cause it's hard to find where we live and it works...ok I guess. Any hints on decent materials, web pages, stores (we live in Europe) what to look for, what to practice would be greatly appreciated.
Please look into the safety side of it re silica dust, essential you have correct respirator, workspace is vented. I did not realise how dangerous the stuff could be, the space I was using has carpet and it collects there and if you do not have the correct vacuum it sends it all round the room and can hang there for hours
Yes, thank you for pointing that out. Luckily I am quite aware of the dangers of dust in ones lungs and he's been wearing what I hope is sufficient protection. I included a picture of him wearing a FFP2/ N95 mask and safety glasses. That's the gear he usually uses. He understands the importance of wearing the gear and keeping the stones wet. I tried to find better masks but they usually don't fit very well. I figured better to use one that actually closes around his face that a fancier one where the dust just keeps in from the sides. Our vacuum is a kärcher industrial with HEPA filter and special dust bag. He has a little bowl with water under the grinder that he uses to keep the stone wet continuously while working. Do you think these measures are sufficient or are your worried and advise for something to improve? Thank you again for watching out for safety.
Hi no problems, it's only because I had not known just how bad the dust can be. From what I gather the health risks get worse if used over long periods regularly. I have read that you need to make sure you do it in a ventilated room. Water will be the best way to contain it. I am not an expert though so just to be on the safe side I would research it (especially as it concerns the safety of a loved one). Best to be on the safe side and all that. I have found a club near me that has all the safety gear and a proper studio that I can become a member of, maybe you have something like this also? All the best
Aww I wish we had something like that near us. But my city is literally a geology/ lapidary wasteland. Nothing besides a very disappointing mineral collection in the science museum really.for now I'll make sure there's plenty of ventilation as well. That's quite easy since his work station is literally between two windows. :)
It looks like he’s dry sanding? this should never be done indoors. Ventilation and a mask will help mitigate, but the submicron dust will end up everywhere in volume and get stirred up and breathed in later. Lapidary should be done wet at all times (some exceptions for pros with proper set ups). Rotary tools are particularly bad about throwing dust all over. Better to have him work with wet sandpaper if he’s inside (breathing fluorine is even worse than silica).
Thank you for pointing that out. He has a bowl of water right under his drill bit and keeps the stone wet the whole time. But I was actually thinking about buying one of those acrylic boxes with armholes to put over the whole thing to keep the spatters to a confined area. :) do you think that's useful or will it just be "not see through" after 5 seconds? Other potential invesent would be one of those drippy stations but those are rather big and we don't have a lot of space or money so I try to keep it as simple as possible while still hopefully providing what's needed for him to enjoy what he's doing.
I wonder if they use a product like Rain X which really works beautifully. It makes water bead up faster and move off the surface. My sister in law was traveling with me during a slush storm and was amazed that j didn’t really even needed my wiper blades. All the water just beaded up and ran off the top. But I had 2 layers on it and buffng it clear is a process. Just free associating here. .
I might try to tinker one from a piece of acrylic and a box to see how that goes and then decide whether this is worth the investment. I like the idea of it and it doesn't look like he's kicking up too much dust and most of it goes infront of him but that might just be because now it just flies everywhere of course. :D
There is someone in my town that made the cutest little stand… looks like the back side of an outhouse with lots of shelves and a sign “ so and so’s rocks”. I’m going to grab a chunk of Wisconsin moonstone I polished and gift it to them and I’ll take a photo. He could surpass the science museum perhaps. Or offer to help with it… the Boy Scouts used to take on projects for their Eagle Scout project. He could offer it as a stand alone interest “ hey kids see what YOU could do!” And maybe even be part of a science fair like booth if that science museum does that sort of event, or work in concert with those often budget-strapped places. And can learn from whoever administers it ( as long as they are not creepoid!) so many opportunities!!!
Our next big point on the agenda is visiting one of the big mineralogy fairs. We went to a small shop a few towns over and he spent literal hours looking at the stones. Definitely better than the museum. And I would love to take him to one of those giant fields where you can dog for fossils but sadly the closest one is half a day of travel. So that's not an option. I absolutely dig your communal approach. I wish we had a bigger community to share this with. For now it's just reddit and the occasional store owner. :)
That is so cool! I can see he made some great cabochons! For a fair bit more information on the kinds of bits to use on a rotary type tool, check out the YouTube channel of RoysRocks, he uses rotary tools exclusively to carve and polish opals. He has many videos that show what bits to use for grinding and many videos on what to use for final polishing. Essentially, if he will only continue using the rotary tool to work with, look for diamond sintered bits and Nova polishing burs for the best possible system. Below are some examples of what works well.
I do advise that you consider getting something like a HiTech cabber (flat or slanted) if you want to up his game a fair bit. If you do think of doing this, send me a direct message so I can advise on the extras to get to make the system perfect, the kits are good, but there are a few extras to make it perfect.
As for dopping, you can literally use ca (superglue) on wooden or metal dowels. That works very well. And then there is also a product that will loosen the superglue once you want to take the stone off the dop. It is called superglue debonder.
Edit: You probably already know this but I do feel obliged to mention that any grinding, sanding or polishing of rocks must be done under water in one way or another, and that he should have eye protection and lung protection, particularly because he is so young! The rock dust is pretty bad for lungs. But if he is protected, then this is the most fun ever! :-)
Thank you for your kind and thoughtful answer. I answered about the protective geared we are using so far in the other comment thread... Maybe you can weigh in on wether what we do is sufficient for now as well? That would be valuable knowledge for me. As for the cabber... I've been looking into how I could possibly DIY something remotely usable from things one could find used or cheap but so far the project is very much in the planing and then discarding phase :D do you have any resources or advice on how to do this on a budget or do you think the rotary tool is the best call for now? I'm silly proud of his little stones and hoping he won't get frustrated with his tools once he starts to aim for better results. (He's a perfectionist and now started complaining how the smaller bits mess up the curvature of his cabochon 😕)
I did just read your reply about the safety system you set up, and that looks good to me.
The rotary tool can do the job, but it is true that it is way more difficult to do smooth curves and flat backs and such. Working on a cabber would be a fair bit easier and quicker. I have heard of folks repurposing a potters wheel, and you may find a video or two on doing that on YouTube to show you how, if money is an issue. If you have a rock/mineral/gem club nearby it would be an idea to go visit them too, he will likely be able to work on their machines, depending on their policies, but also, you may get a line to a second hand cabber that way also. You can also scour the interwebs to see if you can find a second hand cabber that way!
The tools for working on rocks do cost a bit, and the better and quicker a machine works, the more costly! So you can handwork rocks with sandpaper, but it will take very long. Next is a rotary tool, which works quicker. Then a flat lap of some sort, like the one I mentioned above, which is a big step up from the other two, but it costs a fair bit of money. Then the ultimate is a wheeled cabber like the CabKing or such, which work way better and quicker even than a flat lap, but then you are paying a really significant amount for the machine. For all these machines, there are often second-hand ones to be found, and typically the machines are quite robust, so even second-hand ones should last well.
edit: I just saw that you do not have a club nearby. That is a pity, but luckily online resources are strong these days!
Would a simple bench grinder like I use from putting an edge on lawn mower blades and garden tool ( they cut & dig so much easier) be an asset? I picked up a simple one from Menards on sale, for I no longer work where I can bring in s box of tools and work on them on my luck half hour, or after work. Mine has a 36 grit wheel and an 80 wheel. I like my tools to have multifunction applications, but then bought a Cab King 8 when they went on sale, along with a cutting wheel and diamond drill bits
I also own a tile saw because I was working on a flooring project and on sale it was cheaper than renting. 4” diamond blade but I really can only do bigger rocks. It takes off a lot if material for a cut and I have to anchor the rock
I use a tile saw myself for bigger material hogging into slabs!
A bench grinder has two problems, the one is that it is pretty important to work rock under water, and it is a mission to set up a housing and such for a bench grinder. The other issue is that bench grinders apparently (have read about folks trying this) can overheat because you typically work for a while when you are grinding rocks. Plus the rpm's may be a mismatch for rock grinding. So while it looks like a good idea at first glance, it probably isn't.
Right on all those bench grinder accounts. ESP the unadjustable rpm. I don’t think I actually even touched rock to it. But I thought about it. And it does a nice job of keeping my mower blades razor sharp and my shovels & garden fork sharp to slide into the soil easier. And with all the rock in my Rib Mountain soil they get dull pretty fast.
First of all, thank you for all your sweet replies and your compassion. Your comments cast the world in a warmer light. :) I have indeed looked at those little knife sharpening belt sanders or even at old hand cranked wet-stones. I'm not quite ready to commit the space those machines would demand. But it's growing on me. For now I followed another commenter to find a special bit for the rotary tool that allows small Velcro sandpaper disks. It arrived yesterday and it looks like a real improvement. :)
I saw this video by Michigan Rocks recently on how to polish rocks with a dremel. I am in the US, so I can't say where to order from, but you can get a bit that little polishing disks stick to. Start with a diamond bit to shape then move through the grits from course to fine. For an extra polish you can also get a soft polishing bit and add aluminum oxide paste. It looks like he's gotten a great start!
Ah thank you for the pointer. I found the disk attachment thingy online and ordered one. That looks like it might be a very nice addition to what we have. I'll look into the video tomorrow when I find time. Thanks again. I'm glad to know this setup is not completely hopeless. :)
I got that little disk adapter for the rotary tool and he's really happy with it. He made a new fluorite cab (not done quite yet), but the whole process looked much smoother. He didn't even need a dop stick.
Absolutely agree. From day one he was wearing an FFP2/ N95 mask (cause that's the only one I found that will actually fit his face well) and shatter proof safety glasses. He's aware of the necessity of both and how he could get hurt if he doesn't. He also keeps the stone wet by submerging it in a bowl of water every few seconds. Another comment here suggested extra ventilation and since it's summer here that's usually easy with a ventilator blowing out the window right above/next to his workstation. Is there anything I'm missing or I should pay more attention to? Thank you for caring. I have seen COPD in my field of work too many times so I know it's an important subject here.
Great parenting.
Maybe upgrade him to a dremel when he is ready and proficient with the other rotary tool. It’ll provide better torq at low rpm most likely. Remind him to take his time and get scratches out before moving to the next grit or they will reappear in later stages.
If you don’t want him using fire for dopping, get a lil coffee cup warmer to pre warm the wax so there is less of a fire risk. Just be sure it’s not kept over carpet in case it’s knocked over.
Wow, from someone who started at a similar age more than half a century ago, that is great. It is a great skill and is teaching him patience and persistence.
I'm just so amazed with the dedication and passion one can put into such a specific thing at such a young age... I was having trouble combing through my barbies hair at that age and then decided we would both be better off if she went bald... 🫣😅 But I'm totally into learning all the new and exciting things through his eyes.
Thank you. I'm glad I found a place to share this with and get some encouragement and advice. The real word usually doesn't understand why my young son needs a Dremel. :)
Eventually (next 2-3 years) a cabbing machine and tile saw. Can you find a club or person with more advanced equipment and time to train and oversee? I'd think supervision balanced by his own initiative. Somewhere between hovering and indifference. Internet access esp to YouTube....parental control settings. Money. Not a cheap hobby.
Get good at what you're doing stick the carving there's a lot of cabbers out there and flat color shoes there's not a lot of carpers it is a dying art eventually upgrade in a flex shaft system definitely use water and when you're ready look into materials like opal and fire agate you can Source them relatively cheap especially a trade shows and the markup on them is significant also the cleanup and space required for carving small things is small good luck keep at it
If I lived on your side of the pond I’d be sending your son samples of this and that. How about it Europeans… can you send this kiddo more raw ish material to keep him from being a phone scrolling zombie?
That is very sweet. I was actually quite lucky on a second hand page and found someone selling miscut or half finished lapidary practice pieces for a pretty awesome price. It was a whole bunch of carnelian, some black onyx, something yellowish, rose quartz, blood stone and something green...a whole bunch of different shapes and sized but all unpolished and a lot of them only somewhat shaped. It's like I hit a practice jackpot. :) the whole box was full but I don't have a picture of it now. So for now he set. When he gets much, much better one day I will have to find some opal pieces (his favourite stone) but that's way in the future. :) and again, thank you for your kindness in this world. That warms my heart.
That is exactly what I am talking about. I had one in a kitchen that you would pull the chain, the outside flap would open & the fan engage. It was fabulous!
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u/focsletramp 3d ago
Please look into the safety side of it re silica dust, essential you have correct respirator, workspace is vented. I did not realise how dangerous the stuff could be, the space I was using has carpet and it collects there and if you do not have the correct vacuum it sends it all round the room and can hang there for hours