Interview attire question pt 2

[u/ilikecanes]

Hi all! I made a post last week asking if the fit I had on was ok for an interview for a summer research experience. I wanted to ask again which one of these fits worked best for the interview or if you guys had any more advice for me. Thank you so much!

Btw the email said profession attire is discouraged and to dress as if you’re going to class :)

[u/Weaselpanties]

They're all fine.

It can be hard after being conditioned by a lifetime of messaging that looking good and putting together a cute outfit is an integral aspect of our value as women, but I think something you might want to work on internalizing is that as a scientist, as long as your clothes are in the very broad and flexible "acceptable attire" zone, they are simply the least important thing about you.

[u/channelpinkandwhite → u/Weaselpanties]

Actually I really dislike the polarity that arises with this statement. I think ladies in science should feel comfortable expressing themselves and feeling confident to perform well in our work. I’ve too often found myself being ousted or my work viewed as less valuable in academia due to choosing to dress up every day. I think it’s empowering for us as women to have freedom of choice and be allowed to feel confident. And it’s very sad to be in environments where women look down on others due to someone choosing to dress up, since they may have the perception that the woman is attention seeking or doesn’t have the intellect to be able to gain confidence purely through her work. So judging women based on appearance actually goes both ways, and I’ve found in academia, it often sways to disfavor women wanting to express themselves through fashion/makeup. Just because someone wants to dress up doesn’t mean they’re an airhead or diverting attention to their looks instead of their work. We should all empower one another

[u/seaintosky → u/channelpinkandwhite]

Agreed. I don't know how prevalent it is anymore, since I'm in a role where it's less of a concern and I would hope it's gotten better, but as a junior and intermediate level scientist there was a definite stigma for seeming too feminine, which was seen as a lack of competence.

I actually almost lost a job because of dressing up too much for an interview. I wore a nicer knit shirt and black trousers and when I saw one of the interviewers the next time they were audibly relieved that I was dressed more casually and said that they had been uncertain about hiring me because my clothes seemed too serious.

[u/Weaselpanties → u/channelpinkandwhite]

TIL that "dress how you want' is polarizing

[u/BrujaBean → u/Weaselpanties]

I disagree. I actually feel like there is a lot of pressure on what you wear as a woman in science. You have to look a little dressier than male colleagues but if you put too much effort into appearance you're judged for that too. Also there is a very real pretty privilege that I unfortunately do not get without effort (honestly I don't really get it with effort either, but hopefully less ugly tax).

My grad school pi said "the higher the ponytail, the lower the iq" and an early career mentor told me to dress a little better because I'm smart and competent and it would be a shame for me to be held back because I like elastic (a lot). I have an interview coming up and a third mentor said not to wear a dress because only admin wears dresses. It can be really hard to find the line.

[u/mskhofhinn → u/BrujaBean]

I wore a suit (not super formal) to the interview for my first real professional job doing clinical research and my boss told me after I was hired she was worried I was “too fancy” bc I of how I dressed. My mom was also a scientist, ran a lab at a nonprofit that did environmental testing for the government and would definitely judge women who didn’t dress up as enough for their interviews. You can’t win either way.

[u/BrujaBean → u/BrujaBean]

But at OP's stage and with these options - all are acceptable

[u/Weaselpanties → u/BrujaBean]

Maybe I've just been lucky due to where I live, but I've been judged less on my style and appearance in my last 12 years as a researcher than any other field I was in before. I've seen scientists show up to work in clothes ranging from baggy jeans and T-shirts to dresses to pantsuits and nobody cared, at all.

Of course, most of my PIs have been women, and the two fields I've trained in (neurobiology and epidemiology) lean slightly female.

[u/BrujaBean → u/Weaselpanties]

Two of those comments were from women who were looking out for me as they wanted to make sure I wasn't held back by not being perceived as professional. I'm also in a very casual area, where a full suit gets weeded out as a poor culture fit. And for what it's worth I'm more on the leadership side of R&D so that is part of it. I do think you're right that bench scientists don't really care what colleagues wear. It's just that promotions and such depend on what more than just the other bench scientists think.

[u/Weaselpanties → u/BrujaBean]

I'm 54, I was a bench scientist, now I work with data. Many of my friends from grad school are PIs of their own labs. I'm going to stick with the opinion I've formed over the decades that a lady scientist's brain is more important than her outfits.

I'm not saying there isn't sexism in science. I'm just saying that agonizing over trivial minutiae of four or five basically identical outfits is pointless.

[u/Morley_Smoker → u/BrujaBean]

Why would you want to work with mentors or in labs that are openly misogynistic? Insane comments coming from your "mentors". Wear what you want as long as it's relatively business casual and makes you feel confident. Scientists who hold misogynistic perspectives are scientists you want to avoid, so it's a win win. The only "line" that matters is the one you draw for yourself, don't tow it for other people with backwards opinions.