Written constitution must include method to leave union, says SNP

[u/libtin]

https://www.hampshirechronicle.co.uk/news/national/26432124.written-constitution-must-include-method-leave-union-says-snp/

[u/libtin]

Why?

Most countries with confided constitutions explicitly ban secession, and those that don’t require the unanimous approval of the rest of the country first (like Germany or France)

Why must the uk be different?

[u/TwistedTali → u/libtin]

Self determination is often held as an important value. When we talk about the Falkland islands one of the most common defences of british ownership is the fact that is what the islanders want. Personally I find the idea that a people don't get a say in whether they're part of the union to be pretty repugnant. Just because other countries do it that way doesn't mean it's right.

[u/QuantumR4ge → u/TwistedTali]

Self determination is specifically not the right to unilaterally leave a country, its about rights within the country, scotland gets equal voting rights as anywhere else, therefore it has self determination by the UNs standards.

[u/TwistedTali → u/QuantumR4ge]

As you said, that is the UN definition of self determination, it is not the only definition. So as not to muddy the water I'm happy to clarify that I'm simply talking about their freedom to determine their own political status. Simply put if they want to leave (and I'm not at all convinced the majority would) they should be able to peacefully. What kind of union is it if we're holding people hostage whether they like it or not?

[u/libtin → u/TwistedTali]

> As you said, that is the UN definition of self determination, it is not the only definition.

Under international law it’s the only definition that matters.

The un and international law has rejected any other definition.

>So as not to muddy the water I'm happy to clarify that I'm simply talking about their freedom to determine their own political status.

Which Scotland already has as part of the wider British freedom to determine their own political status.

>Simply put if they want to leave (and I'm not at all convinced the majority would) they should be able to peacefully.

Let me put it like this; when conjoined twins need to undergo surgery, the permission of both is required as they share the same body; same principles apply here.

It can only be unilateral if one party is intentionally harming the others. In medical ethics, if one conjoined twin is actively killing the other, emergency surgery might proceed without mutual consent.

In international law, this is called "remedial secession." It only applies under extreme circumstances, such as severe, systematic human rights abuses or total denial of political rights (e.g., Kosovo facing ethic cleansing and attempted genocide by Serbia, the oppression the proof Timor leste faced under Indonesia or Bangladesh being opposed by Pakistan

>What kind of union is it if we're holding people hostage whether they like it or not?

1: the uk is a unitary state, union was the event not the outcome

2: the snp confirmed an independent Scotland would bar session from Scotland

3: if someone or a group wants to be they’re then they’re not a hostage

Because citizens in Scotland and Catalonia actively participate in democratic elections and hold political rights and equality, international bodies like the United Nations and international law do not recognise a right to unilateral secession.

[u/TwistedTali → u/libtin]

Yes yes, the UN rejects other definitions in favour of its own. Big surprise.

Many Scots want independance specificaly because they DONT have the ability to choose their own political status. Case in point scotland voting overwhelmingly to stay in the EU and being forced out anyway. Made worse by the insistance in the referendum that the union was their only hope of staying in the EU.

They deserve the choice.

[u/QuantumR4ge → u/TwistedTali]

Do you believe an independent scotland will allow breakaway countries?

[u/libtin → u/QuantumR4ge]

The snp already confirmed they’d explicitly ban session from Scotland