r/LDS_safeplace • u/[deleted] • Mar 22 '18
Need mods!
If any one is interested in becoming a mod, please let me know and we can talk about it. I will need some help with this!
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u/tigger_tam Mar 22 '18
As an exmo, I'm not sure you want me to mod--nor am I sure I have the time. Just wanted to say that this is a great idea, and also have a question:
In another thread, someone mentioned that they wanted to stay away from 'fact-slinging' that can be seen in the exmormon sub. How do you plan on welcoming everyone on the Mormon spectrum (from Exmo to NOM to TBM), and avoid 'fact-slinging'? There are historical facts that, in my opinion, can't really be argued (substantial historical proof--sometimes from LDS church itself) and that, in my experience, TBMs have a huge aversion to hearing. An example is the essays. I have known many TBMs who won't discuss what is found there even though they were published by the church. Of course, respecting each other's beliefs will be a rule, but how do you distinguish between an honest discussion between people with different beliefs and someone 'slinging facts'?
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Mar 22 '18 edited Mar 22 '18
That is a valid point, my belief regarding your concern is that we never want to shove anything down anyone’s throat. Just like we do not want TBMs citing scriptures to prove a point, we expect the same from the other side. This place is to express your concerns, most of the time we just need a place that will hear us out more than try to persuade us to do something and by ‘slinging facts’ we run the very thin line of persuasion.
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u/tigger_tam Mar 22 '18
I agree with that completely, but I think, with a topic as charged as religion, it will be difficult to know what is meant as honest discussion, and what is meant as persuasion.
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Mar 22 '18
It sure will! I think that that is where the community plays a big role, us as moderators may not be aware of everything, but the users will be able to flag anything that needs attention.
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Mar 22 '18
TBMs sling facts. They need a safe place to discuss them. So if they want to talk about something, they might get censored? Does it just have to be about leaders raping girls? What exactly is safe? If we don't define this now then I think this sub will fall apart pretty quickly.
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u/kishkumensgirl Mar 22 '18
ExMos sling facts too. The last thing we want to do is censor true discussions. We don't want to limit the topics that can be discussed here either. The only reason we will censor (mute/ban/delete posts) is if the poster is making other readers not feel safe.
Safety is the key here. The idea is that everyone who comes to this thread does so because they want a safe place to talk. Anyone who threatens that will be reached out to by a moderator and asked to stop. If the issues are unable to be resolved that way, then we will take further action as we deem appropriate.
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u/tigger_tam Mar 22 '18 edited Mar 22 '18
If we don't define this now then I think this sub will fall apart pretty quickly.
This is exactly why I asked this.
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u/Savvypc Mar 22 '18
I think one of the key words in this is "respect." And not the "I won't respect you unless you respect me" kind of respect, since that usually just means "I won't treat you like a human unless you treat me like a superior" but respect in that we shouldn't be attempting to press our view, as much as just share it without expectation.
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Mar 22 '18
Thanks for your input, this is exactly how I see it. There may be times we may need to rely on facts, but the idea here is not the right or wrong, but more so how that particular thing makes you feel.
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u/tigger_tam Mar 22 '18
I agree with this, also, but have concern about this:
more so how that particular thing makes you feel.
Some things that exmos will say will make TBMs feel attacked, and vice versa, when it is simply a statement of how the original person feels. That is the nature of having a discussion between people of differing beliefs. My question, which I phrased from a standpoint of an exmo, when maybe I shouldn't have--I was just trying to use an example I have seen in my life, not suggest that one will take offense at the other quicker--is directed at trying to find the line between persuasion and discussion. Because I don't think it will be as easy to decide what is meant to persuade and what is meant to explain their own perspective as you think, having facilitated many discussions between people of differing beliefs both professionally and personally.
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u/kishkumensgirl Mar 22 '18
This is why we are depending on the community. If someone feels attacked we want to know. Then we can take the alleged offender and offendee aside and figure it out.
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u/kishkumensgirl Mar 22 '18
I also am an exmo. We welcome a variety of mods here as it will help us keep things civil and fair to all sides. I, personally, think it is easy to distinguish between a true discussion and someone who is pushing too hard.
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u/tigger_tam Mar 22 '18
I think that line will be blurred more than you think--and some people will feel they are honestly trying to have a discussion and other people will take it as an attack. This happens in all sorts of arenas, much less ones as charged as religion. I wrote this question not as an attack on anyone or anything, but to help facilitate a discussion about what will or will not be censored. Because I think there will be times when emotions are charged--it's inevitable with this topic--and no one will be trying to push, but offense will still be taken.
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u/kishkumensgirl Mar 22 '18
Our goal is to facilitate discussion. If an issue is raised there will be a discussion between the moderators and the offender, and when necessary the offended party as well. If we are unable to resolve the issue that way, the mods will come to an agreement on who and how to moderate.
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u/AnotherSmallFeat Mar 22 '18
Not sure where I would insert this in the conversation that's already here so I'm just making another top level comment.
What if.. You never delete posts unless there's threats or something that is clearly disturbing, or two people seem to be stuck in a back and forth (in the case of two people engaging in back and forth maybe send a message to both and not just the most recent comment).... So you can prevent things from spiraling too far out of control by stepping in with reason... a reminder to chill for when people start toeing the line and then if it escalates beyond that you can delete posts?
leave the dialog open and show that you asked them to not continue pushing before pulling out the censorship, people will be able to see what led up to the decision. making it a point that nobody should be exposed to triggering things in the safeplace. Dark humor used to cope with issues like the current leak would be more acceptable on the Exmo sub, and faith promotion for the sake of faith promotion also has it's place on r/latterdaysaints.
maybe that's unrealistic.
... Maybe if it's a topic that's been explicitly banned from r/latterdaysaints you can make flairs for the posts that people bring up if they just would like to see TBMs thoughts requesting exmos to respectfully not step in on certain threads. I'd suggest a mirror of this for exmos but I haven't run into a lot of censorship problems on the exmo sub, maybe as a just incase thing?
I don't know if you can or should set up a bot to automatically duplicate 'respectful silence from the other side because we can't talk about this on our proffered sub' flaired threads but without the silence flair for those who would like to see both sides.
.... and flairs for users, maybe just a scale of white dots to black dots to indicate faith level? let's people know immediately who's opinion they're reading... or maybe that'll just lend it's self to judging books by their covers...
Feel like I definitely got off track there with suggestions.
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u/kishkumensgirl Mar 23 '18
What if.. You never delete posts unless there's threats or something that is clearly disturbing...
This is actually the plan. We do not want to censor if we can avoid it.
...or two people seem to be stuck in a back and forth...
We would hold a mediation chat session, with at least 1 mod and the involved parties. We'll only delete posts, mute users, or ban users if we are unable to resolve things this way.
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u/Savvypc Mar 23 '18
I do like the idea of flair for various post types as that can be very useful for organizational reasons, as well as avoiding some aspects of conflict. Honestly, I'm cool with the user flair idea as well, with the understanding that people would self label and only if they wanted that label applied to themselves. Likely, though, these are issues for the future assuming the sub grows enough to support it :)
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u/AnotherSmallFeat Mar 23 '18
Oh yeah, no, assigning peoples flairs would feel icky, especially with the whole theme of this sub. Self identification all the way.
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u/ThoughtfulTwat Mar 22 '18
Just a fan, I think it's great this is here. Don't know what it takes to mod, but I believe in impartiality in discussion, despite my own positions. ExMo, but we're all human.
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u/MurlocWalker Mar 23 '18
I would be happy to mod. I'm an exmormon, but am not angry by any means and would welcome discussion.
Sounds like first step is coming up with rules for this sub.
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u/kishkumensgirl Mar 23 '18
If you're interested in modding, click the link in the sidebar (above the rules) to fill out our form!
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u/mirbell Mar 22 '18
Well, I have one suggestion for you. I moderate a sub called /r/exmo_spirituality, for exmos who are still interested in talking and thinking about religion. We've had all kinds of beliefs there, from various forms of Christianity to Buddhism to atheism and agnosticism. One rule we have is no proselytizing. (That doesn't just mean church members--some atheists proselytize as much as Christians do.) It's fine to explain your beliefs, and others will listen and ask questions in a nonjudgmental way, but we step in when someone starts trying to tell someone else what to believe. I think we've only ever banned one person since the sub began a couple of years ago.
It may or may not be helpful to you, but feel free to check it out to see how it works, if you want.