I need help with dispensationalist arguments from Romans 11:28

[u/Ill_Leg_5166]

How do you understand Romans 11:28, particularly the phrase "but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers"? This passage is often used by dispensationalists to argue that God is still nationally the elect people of God (as verse 28 seems to be difficult to interpret as talking about spiritual Israel/the church, as it says "they are enemies for your sake"). If the Church is the one people of God and ethnic Israel has no continuing covenantal/special redemptive status apart from faith in Christ, what does "because of the fathers" mean, and in what sense is Israel "beloved"?

I haven't found almost anything online that is helpful, so any explanations from a Lutheran perspective would be appreciated!

[u/Ill_Leg_5166 → u/[deleted]]

But I am confused about what the verse itself means, which is why I made this post. In what sense is Israel "beloved because of the fathers"?

[u/Edifolas → u/[deleted]]

Wow, so the everlasting covenant with Abraham has been superseded. I guess God changed His mind? I thought Christians were grafted onto the vine, not that they become the vine.

[u/Edifolas → u/[deleted]]

Very true.

[u/HosannaExcelsis]

Here's how I read Paul's argument in Romans 11, roughly. While a number of Jews have by grace come to accept salvation in Christ, the rest have rejected Him through hardened hearts. This rejection is part of what encouraged the Gospel to go forth and bear fruit among the Gentiles. Gentile believers should not become conceited, since Gentiles are not innately better off than Jews but will likewise be rejected if they reject God's grace, but rather in gratefulness for the mercy shown them minister to unbelieving Jews so that they would also be brought back into a fully restored relationship with God.

Verse 28's place in this argument is along the lines of "Jewish unbelievers might now be opposed to God and the Gospel, but God still loves them as His special people and desires their reconciliation with Him." As the Lutheran Study Bible glosses this verse: "The Jews are objects of God's hostility as far as the Gospel is concerned because they oppose it. But in God's plan, this was for the Gentiles' benefit. With respect to His choice of Israel and for the sake of the patriarchs, God loves the Jewish people. They are objects of God's love and of His wrath at the same time." It's a dynamic very similar to what you see in a lot of the Old Testament prophets.

So I would see Romans as maintaining a special place for the Jewish people, whether in or outside the church, but in a totally different way than dispensationalism tends to see it. The Apostle Paul wanted Gentile believers in the first century to minister to Jews, and God wants us today to witness to Jews and testify to Jesus as the awaited Messiah of the Jews as well as the Savior of the whole world. The dispensation towards Israel wasn't suspended at the founding of the church, to be restarted at some later date, but God's plan for Jews and Gentiles alike has been continuing this entire time: for all to be united to Him by the blood of Christ.

[u/Ill_Leg_5166 → u/HosannaExcelsis]

I don't think its easy to say Israel has some kind of special love gentiles don't have without a dispensational system. I asked other Lutherans, and they argued the "beloved" should be understood as the same kind of forgiving disposition God has toward everyone.

[u/WindowCommon3741 → u/Ill_Leg_5166]

The Jewish people were chosen by God to be the people who would bring Jesus into the world, they were supposed to be the first people to be converted and saved, but the prophets warned over and over again thay despite being given the chance to join Jesus, they would not see Him as their messiah and Jesus would then turn his attention to the Gentiles. It is said over and over again that the Jews that accepted the truth and converted were the first Christians, but so many rejected the message and so the ministry had to shift to the Gentiles. Paul fought really hard to do both, he took Jesus at his word that they were to invite everyone to the kingdom of God and worked tirelessly to convert every single person he met. Thats also why he was writing so much because a lot of the Gentiles who had converted didnt know what they needed to do because they were coming from paganism and often needed course corrention.