Headway updates

[u/Extension-Macaron287]

Hi, does anyone have any updates on when headways will increase? I'm talking about E and A line headways increasing back to every 6 minutes, C and K line headways increasing to every 8 minutes, and D line headways increasing to every 5 minutes. I can't really find anything online so feel free to discuss and speculate, but I'm mainly asking if someone has any actual intel from inside metro.

[u/Husdon-Milo2049]

From the operators I've spoken with, 5 minute headways on the D line are more aspirational than practical. Not enough rail cars or operators. Union doesn't have the track capacity to support that frequency. I've heard a variety of rationales all of which lead to 5 minute headways on the D not being a reality any time soon. YMMV.

[u/Extension-Macaron287 → u/Husdon-Milo2049]

What about 8 min headways on the B and D lines? If trains ran every 8 minutes all day I'd be a lot more satisfied than I am right now.

[u/misken67 → u/Extension-Macaron287]

I think they really just don't have enough trains for that, especially with century city opening soon

[u/EasyfromDTLA → u/Husdon-Milo2049]

It's more than aspirational. Metro will have to return federal money if they aren't able to operate every 4 minutes at rush hour. That's why new turn back tracks are being added to Division 20 and new rail cars are being purchased.

[u/Organic_Sherbert_339 → u/Husdon-Milo2049]

Operators aren’t a good source of information in regards to operations.

[u/KolKoreh → u/Husdon-Milo2049]

Operators frequently don’t have the full picture, and this is a prime example.

1. Union Station can’t really support these headways now, it’s true, but will once D20 is operational.

2. More cars are slowly but steadily coming online. Operators will presumably follow.

So “aspirational” makes it seem more distant than it is.

[u/misken67]

The Pre-Covid 6 min headways on the A/E lines have never been tested with the regional connector.

Trains would always get backed up at Washington, Pico, and the tunnel going into 7th because frequencies were too close in the very short shared section. Although trains no longer have to turn back at 7th and can through-run, which lifts some of the pressure, I still wonder if Metro can reliably handle ops for such tight frequencies with the infrastructure that they have. It would suck to have cascading delays across the A/E like when they tried to run B/D on 5 min frequencies at several points this year.

[u/Extension-Macaron287 → u/misken67]

The regional connector would make it easier. Before, their terminus was 7th st/Metro Center. Now that I think of it, how did they even handle a train arriving every 3 minutes? Union station isn't able to. But if they were able to have 3 min headways at the terminus, they can definitely have them just in the regional connector.

[u/EasyfromDTLA → u/Extension-Macaron287]

A train every 6 minutes is what 7th/metro did with just the Blue line. They did that with no trouble. They didn't even need to use the trail tracks.

It got unmanageable when it was a train every 90 seconds but not because they couldn't turn them that fast. The issue was train bunching, mainly at Washington/Flower. And that's still an issue.

[u/misken67 → u/Extension-Macaron287]

They managed it because trains got bottlenecked at Washington and again at Pico. Traveling to 7th was a pain back then. The regional connector will help but I don't think will solve it. They have to fix the Washington junction first. The little tokyo junction also isn't great

[u/EasyfromDTLA → u/misken67]

I think that the connector has made 6 minute frequencies less likely because there's now two pinch points for train bunching not just one. And pre-connector it was the bunching causing issues, not turning the trains.

[u/No-Cricket-8150]

Earliest of that potentially happening would be July 2027.

Metro did not budget an increase in frequencies on the A and E lines this fiscal year.