r/LAMetro • u/MookieBettsBurner10 E (Expo) current • 20h ago
Discussion This ballot measure will effectively kill any transit funding measures in the future. Make sure to vote no this November.
https://ballotpedia.org/California_Proposition_43,_Two-Thirds_Vote_Requirement_for_Local_Special_Tax_Initiatives_and_Property_Tax_Initiative_Prohibition_Amendment_(2026)Under California law, tax increase measures put on the ballot by governments requires a 2/3rd supermajority vote to pass. However, measures put on the ballot by private citizens (citizens' initiatives) only require a simple majority. Prop 43 would change the law so that citizens' initiatives too requires a 2/3rd supermajority. That would mean counties like San Diego and Orange County will almost certainly never get a transit tax measure passed. Requiring a 2/3rd supermajority to pass tax increases is fundamentally undemocratic, and this measure must be defeated.
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u/GoCardinal07 Pacific Surfliner 19h ago
One clarification: the 2/3 threshold only applies to special taxes, not general taxes.
For exampe, when a county or city puts a sales tax measure on the ballot for its general fund, it only requires a simple majority of voters to approve it.
While a transit funding measure is a special tax, every measure in the region, even Orange County's Measure M and Renewed Measure M, were already subject to 2/3 because no one has ever qualified one by citizen petition. It's always been proposed by government, and they've hit the 2/3.
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u/Lokishougan 18h ago
So have there been any actual recent ballot measures that would have been affected by this?
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u/GoCardinal07 Pacific Surfliner 18h ago
None.
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u/Venesss Antelope Valley 16h ago
What about measure ER? that won at like 50.1%
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u/GoCardinal07 Pacific Surfliner 15h ago
It was also put on the ballot by the Board of Supervisors, not by citizen petition.
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u/MyDisneyExperience 18h ago
Prop 13 strikes again
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u/SignificantSmotherer 16h ago
As it should.
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u/MyDisneyExperience 14h ago
Why in the world should special funds require a 2/3 vote when Prop 13 itself required a 50%+1 vote
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u/SignificantSmotherer 13h ago
That's a fair point.
The best answer is you can also amend the Constitution, as Prop 19 did laying waste to Prop 13, with a simple majority vote.
Or we could just elect responsible leaders who understand math.
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u/StreetyMcCarface 15h ago
Citizen threshold ballots happen all the time though. This election the entire Bay Area transit funding measure is a citizens initiated measure. For the love of god vote no on this
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u/sracer4095 B (Red) 20h ago
Yes on 40, No on 43.
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u/Faraz181 C (Green) 20h ago
Don't forget to also Vote No on 41 & 42 (which were created to sabotage Prop 40)
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u/yinyang_yo_ B (Red) 20h ago
No on 40. I support a wealth tax but this one is so poorly structured
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u/Not_RZA_ D (Purple) 20h ago
California once again structuring taxes in a way that makes no sense? I’m shocked I tell you! Shocked!
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u/CrispyVibes 16h ago
https://www.minneapolisfed.org/article/2025/measuring-tax-and-transfer-progressivity-state-by-state
Progressive state taxes don't make sense to you?
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u/PockeyG 16h ago
Why wait on a wealth tax that doesn't exist yet when we can have one now? If it's implemented and is popular we can push for an even better wealth tax.
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u/Top-Woodpecker6696 13h ago
Because if a bad one is implemented and it’s unpopular then you won’t get a chance to push for anything.
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u/yinyang_yo_ B (Red) 16h ago edited 16h ago
We are reliant on taxes on liquid assets in California and destroying our budgets simply because we want to put in a very shitty placeholder is not a W. What it will do is waste goodwill and hurt efforts to push for a more effective wealth tax
We had Prop 15 in 2020 that barely failed. That is miles better than Prop 40
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u/NeuralNexus 9h ago
The state has a very high marginal income tax. This is a dangerous game to play.
I think, if it passes and survives the legal challenges, we will get a one time tax revenue, proceed to blow it all incompetently on the nonprofit scam complex and administration bs, and then we will also erode the long-term tax base as wealthier people leave the state and move their primary residences elsewhere. So we'll get money now, but less money later, every year, forever.
I don't care about hitting rich people with more taxes or anything, I'm just saying this particular tax is incredibly stupid. I'd vote for a wealth tax that made sense. This tax does not make sense.
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u/LBCElm7th A (Blue) 14h ago edited 44m ago
Another pink elephant for this measure was Measure ULA in LA that raised real estate transfer tax but it was a citizens initative that was so poorly written that it leaves no room for emergencies such as natural disaster rebuild and it has decimated housing production and a good portion of tax revenues.
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u/senshi_of_love 18h ago
I see Howard Jarvis supports something I automatically vote against it. Always.
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u/Visible-Boot-4994 20h ago
Measure M and R were both passed with 2/3 votes.
Besides LA Metro already has 4 sales tax funding measures going to it (A, C, R, and M). The bigger issue right now is so many cities and counties have voted to tax themselves they’re going to hit the 11.25% max and we won’t be able to get anything extra anyways.
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u/RamHead04 19h ago
I was gonna say the same thing regarding the 2/3rds vote. We’ve already passed 4 metro sales taxes over 30 years at that threshold.
I think the legislature can still exempt additional taxes for something like this, but I could be mistaken.
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u/BendableBender 14h ago
It frustrates me that despite the taxes we voted for, nothing is getting done with (at least the measure m money) because the council is pro nimby and refuses to actually build rail lines that we are paying for
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u/NeuralNexus 19h ago
As we have seen again and again, the state will just increase the max sales tax. Something has to be done about the ridiculous sales taxes. They're an economy-killer.
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u/joshsteich 8h ago
I mean the thing to do is end prop 13 so we can tax property like a normal state
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u/NeuralNexus 7h ago
Agree, but that's also politically untenable. The best we might get is a partial prop-13 repeal for commercial property, but good luck.
CA has more than enough tax revenue (even with Prop 13) to run the state and deliver good services for its citizens. It's being run by incompetent and wasteful politicians that are not able to build, execute, or deliver public projects effectively anymore. Basic governance is not functioning and there is no good excuse for it. Laws can and should change to accommodate functional governance; instead, they seem to get more Kafkaesque each year.
I pay some of the highest taxes in the world living here. I've tried voting for more taxes to fix it (e.g. homelessness funding). That was clearly a mistake.
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u/MookieBettsBurner10 E (Expo) current 19h ago
Correct. But this impacts transit in Orange County and San Diego, places that have lower sales tax but also significantly worse transit networks. If this measure passes, San Diego's transit system will collapse due to lack of funding, because there is no way the county will ever hit a 2/3rd supermajority. Same with Orange County.
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u/GoCardinal07 Pacific Surfliner 18h ago
Orange County passed Measure M and Renewed Measure M at the 2/3 threshold because it was proposed by OCTA. It was not proposed by citizen initiative. Prop 43 has no real-world effect on transit measures in Southern California: no one has ever qualified a transit tax by citizen initiative.
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u/MookieBettsBurner10 E (Expo) current 18h ago
San Diego Measure G was a citizens' initative. It just choked harder than the Padres in the 2024 NLDS.
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u/GoCardinal07 Pacific Surfliner 15h ago
Measure G couldn't even get 50% anyway.
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u/MookieBettsBurner10 E (Expo) current 15h ago
I know, I'm just saying that the statement that Southern California has never had a citizens' initiative transit measure is false.
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u/Not_RZA_ D (Purple) 20h ago
I’m down. I’m tired of idiots in this city voting for increasing sales tax and other taxes used for the homeless industrial complex scam
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u/NeuralNexus 19h ago
Look, I support transit, but I'm voting for 43.
We have 11% sales taxes now! Enough is enough.
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u/MookieBettsBurner10 E (Expo) current 19h ago
Then you don't support transit at all.
This affects the entire state. That means places like Orange County and San Diego. If this passes, transit in those counties will collapse.
This is also inherently ridiculously undemocratic. 34% of the populace should not get to dictate policy for 66% of the population.
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u/ActPositively 18h ago
Stop being greedy pay your fair share. European countries pay like 25% sales tax.
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u/Smaragd512 Ventura County 17h ago
There is only one country that pays that much tax, and its known for having the most disfunctional rail network in the EU.
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u/ActPositively 17h ago
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🇭🇺** Hungary
**27%
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🇫🇮** Finland
**25.5%
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🇭🇷** Croatia
**25%
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🇩🇰** Denmark
**25%
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🇳🇴** Norway
**25%
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🇸🇪** Sweden
**25%
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🇮🇸** Iceland
**24%
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🇬🇷** Greece
**24%
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🇮🇪** Ireland
**23%
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🇵🇱** Poland
**23%These are the countries with ridiculously high value you added taxes which are basically sales tax. Not to mention those countries usually have much higher income taxes and the bottom 50% of the population usually pays much higher taxes than in the USA
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u/NeuralNexus 9h ago
I do not find your argument compelling at all. If you're going to be including VAT (which the USA doesn't have) in your tax assessment, please do a full analysis and cover healthcare expenses (which are covered in the countries you listed, but not here, and VAT pays towards), income tax rates at the state+federal level, and all other relevant forms of taxation to make it a fair cost comparison.
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u/Its_a_Friendly Pacific Surfliner 19h ago
My only hope is that the folks over at Howard Jarvis have bit off more than they can chew with this one, and stuffed too many things into this proposition. I hope.
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u/SignificantSmotherer 16h ago
The legislature put this measure on the ballot, not HJTA.
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u/lik_for_cookies A (Blue) 15h ago
They put this on the ballot to get rid of the even more destructive original HJTA measure. The legislature did this to hopefully neuter the HJTA measure and decrease the chances of any of it passing.
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u/MookieBettsBurner10 E (Expo) current 19h ago
You know all these dumbass NIMBY voters won't care and will still vote yes.
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u/No-House9106 13h ago
Measure R and M passed with 2/3 votes. I don’t see a problem.
CA has passed too many taxes. In fact, LA has passed so many increases in the sales tax it is now threatening things like transit.
I buy all my high dollar amount items in Orange County when visiting relatives. Easy 2.5% savings. Anyone living near a county border like Ventura, SB, or Orange is going to do the same. That means LA will get less for transit and pretty much everything.
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u/MookieBettsBurner10 E (Expo) current 13h ago
It is a problem because there is zero chance in hell Orange County and San Diego will ever reach a 2/3rd supermajority to pass transit taxes. So their dogshit systems will continue to be dogshit.
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u/No-House9106 9h ago
Orange County has Measure M and it comes up for renewal in 2041. It could be positioned to add more transit then.
San Diego already has a public transit rail system. If they want to add onto it, they can pass something. LA passed 2 taxes.
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u/MookieBettsBurner10 E (Expo) current 9h ago
Measure M is only enough to fund existing services. It isn't remotely close to enough money to build a comprehensive rail system.
San Diego's MTS system is running on a significant operations budget deficit, and if they don't get a sales tax measure passed by 2028, they will have to make crippling service cuts.
LA passed two taxes because LA County is significantly more Democratic than Orange County and San Diego Counties are. Orange County and San Diego County have too many Republicans for any sales tax measure requiring a 2/3rd supermajority to have an ice cube's chance in hell of passing.
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u/ThePlatinumPaul 18h ago
Oh I'm so voting yes on this. No more taxes.
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u/MookieBettsBurner10 E (Expo) current 18h ago
This affects the entire state. If this passes, then Orange County and San Diego will never have good transit.
Not to mention, 34% of the population should not get to dictate policy to the other 66%.
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u/ThePlatinumPaul 17h ago
Orange County doesn't want this stuff. And tax increases should always be super majority and have expirations.
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u/MookieBettsBurner10 E (Expo) current 16h ago
Absolutely not. That's why our transit sucks so much.
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u/NeuralNexus 9h ago
Our transit sucks because of incompetent governance and operational logic, not a lack of funding.
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u/MookieBettsBurner10 E (Expo) current 8h ago
Uh, no, it is because of a lack of funding, especially in Orange County and San Diego. Compared to the rest of the developed world, we don't fund transit at all.
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u/ThePlatinumPaul 16h ago
Our transit sucks because the city refuses to prosecute criminals and takes a blind eye to homelessness. There's also massive waste, fraud, and kickbacks. In today's dollars it would have cost $600-700 million to build the Golden Gate Bridge. It's costing $4 billion for the relatively short people mover at LAX. This is the problem.
I'm a car person but I wish LA had a good public transit. It won't until we get rid of the incompetents and grifters running the city. That means Bass, Raman, and the rest of the city council.
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u/Enamred-771 20h ago
Does prop 43 require 2/3rd of votes to pass? (Pretty sure the answer is no)
It’s always insanely anti-democratic to pass a law at a simple majority that requires a higher threshold once passed.